Arthur Brain
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So what's to stop it from happening all over again if all who enter still supposedly have 'free will'?
Why would God need a hell?
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So what's to stop it from happening all over again if all who enter still supposedly have 'free will'?
Apple7
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Apple7
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Evil will no longer be part of the Righteous. It won't be an option.
Arthur Brain
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So no free will then?
Apple7
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Evil is not an option.
KingdomRose
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You must've missed all of the scriptures I've used. Well, I'll repeat myself. Let's see.....God and Jesus have said plainly that the wages of sin is DEATH, not conscious torture over a bed of coals. Death is the opposite of life. Therefore, no one is alive when they're dead.
(1) Romans 6:16, 21, 23
(2) Romans 8:6, 13
(3) John 3:16, 36
(4) 2 Corinthians 1:10; 7:10
(5) James 1:15
:rip:
KingdomRose
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I don't get that at all.....that the term "Christian" is meaningless. It simply means "one who follows Christ." I think God cares very much whether or not people follow His Son. John chapter 3 brings that out.
Arthur Brain
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Apple7
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Yes, freewill.
Evil will not be an option like it was when the 1/3 angels decided to follow Satan.
Apple7
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These verses do not impart anything different than the other more detailed ones in Revelation, etc.
Cherry-picking (albeit the JW way) will not change the picture.
Just like you try your very best to ignore scripture showing Jesus' divinity.
Mickiel
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The term has been set up " As a god", its been given holy status and people view it as they would God's name. You see how your religion hold's up " Jehovah", well the term " Christian" is held up just as high as that.
Arthur Brain
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Eh, how can there be any type of free will if options are removed?
If this is the 'ideal' then why was "evil will" even an option from the outset?
Apple7
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If the option is not available to choose from, how would you even know it was an option?
It was part of God's plan.
A careful reading of Revelation places The Righteous on the throne of God - with concentric circles of created beings extending outwards from it.
In simple terms, this means that the ones closest to God are the ones that have the freewill to chose God over Satan.
Arthur Brain
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Experience already? Are you just going to be the equivalent of a computer program in Heaven?
The expected and rather convenient answer. If you can only be 'righteous' because you have no choice in it then it isn't saying much.
KingdomRose
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No it does not. Try to find a place in the Hebrew Scriptures that refer to the Son as "El Shaddai." Uh uh. And Jesus never claimed to be "I Am"! No way. That is the invention of somebody with an ace up his sleeve---a way to trick the people who don't really read the Bible.
I won't go into detail about the atrocious word order that defies all decent translation at John 8:58. Jesus would never have uttered such a mangled sentence. Much can be said about this. If someone is interested in all that grammatical stuff, the book Truth in Translation by Jason BeDuhn is excellent (pp. 103-112).
I'm going to bring out a couple of points that are easy to grasp. On more than one occasion, Jesus says "I am" (John 4:26; 6:20; 8:24,28; 13:19; 18:5-6,8), and most of these verses fit into what is called idiomatic Greek expressions and make perfect sense in context. Now here's the rub----"someone at some point noticed that this perfectly ORDINARY combination of the first person pronoun 'I' and the present tense verb 'am' just happens to read the 'same' as what God says at Exodus 3:14!!" Lo and behold! Never mind that the rendering of John 8:58 is pitifully sloppy, and the expression at Exodus 3:14 doesn't even read "I Am" in many versions!
"I Shall Prove To Be What I Shall Prove To Be" (Ehyeh 'Asher 'Ehyeh) is one rendering.
"I Will Be That I Will Be" is the rendering by Leeser.
"I Will Become Whatsoever I Please," the rendering by Rotherham.
So how do those translations fit John 8:58? Whoever thought that one up didn't know too much.
The correct translation of John 8:58 is what The Living Bible offers:
"The absolute truth is that I was in existence before Abraham was ever born!"
Jesus is not El Shaddai!
Mickiel
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Apple7
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Isaiah informs the reader that The Righteous in Heaven will work, and worship God forever.
There is no time for evil - nor will it ever come to mind - nor is it even an option.
Predestination and Free wheel are taking place simultaneously.
Apple7
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The Malek Yahweh (Exo 3.2) said that He was the El Shaddai (Exo 6.3) who appeared to the patriarchs (Gen 17.1, 35.11).
Malek Yahweh, El Shaddai, also the Son, revealed to Moses that He was ‘I AM’ and Yahweh (Exo 3.14 – 15, 6.3).
Arthur Brain
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Apple7
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Mark 12:26
But concerning the dead, that they are raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, as God spoke to him at the Bush, saying, "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob"?
Jesus is quoting Himself, God the Son, as thus…
Exodus 3.1 - 6
And Moses was feeding the flock of his father-in-law Jethro, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock behind the wilderness and came to the mountain of The Gods, to Horeb. And Malek Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the middle of a thorn bush. And he looked, and behold, the thorn bush was burning with fire, and the thorn bush was not burned up! And Moses said, I will turn aside now and see this great sight, why the thorn bush is not burned up. And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, and Elohim called to him from the midst of the thorn bush, and said, Moses! Moses! And he said, Behold me. And He said, Do not come near here. Pull off your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground. And He said, I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face, for he feared to look upon The Gods.
These verses tell us plainly that Moses both saw and spoke with Malek Yahweh (i.e. God the Son) in the midst of the fire.
Observe that the Triune God occupies the Mount (Moses came to the mountain of all The Gods ‘Ha- Elohim’), as the terms Yahweh, Elohim, Malek Yahweh & Ha- Elohim (literally all The Gods!) are used interchangeably.
Who occupied the burning bush?
• Malek Yahweh
• Yahweh
• Elohim
• The Gods (Ha Elohim)
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