ECT WHY THE MYSTERY IS STILL A MYSTERY !!

[Cross Reference]

There is no indication at all from Acts 2 that everyone is supposed to have that "experience." Now, in an evangelistic sense or in missions, everyone in those should feel compelled by the Gospel or not be in the work. That's obvious. But there is nothing about Acts 2 that it is emotionally intense that we deliberate focus on ourselves and replicate.

The speaking of foreign languages needed to happen as a sign to those in Judaism that the mission of the Gospel was underway; see how I Cor 14 interps Isaiah. The foreign language needed to be spoken (sort of a reverse of what happened at Babel) and followers of Judaism needed to witness this happening. That kickstarts the Messianic mission for those in Judaism.

What better way to start this than at an existing event where followers from Judaism from all over the Roman world were present, so that when they went home they could tell others that the Messianic age was truly launched.

The NT message is much more about the fresh announcement of forgiveness for the most vile than it is about the supposed emotional intensity of Acts 2 as though people were supposed to seek that.

Very good understanding but, incomplete. For starters you have to reconcile Acts 10,11 and Acts 19 which was twenty years later+/- all the while keeping in remembrance the words of Peter here:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Acts 2:38-39 (KJV)

God never breaks His promises. It has to be something of/from man that hinders them, doncha think? #2 The Gifts of the Spirit are needed today probably more than any other period of time since Acts 2. That is the common sense part. OMT: Acts 2; the Gifts, are incidental to John 17:3.

 

[Interplanner]

Hi to all and the # 1 reason the MYSTERY is still a MYSTERY is because , most will not believe what the Holy Spirit had Paul write in Eph 3:9 , and of course refuse to believe Pentecost was set aside and that God appointed a New Apostle with a new Gospel called GRACE .

In 1 Cor 2:7 we have JUST one verse explaining it !!

It reads , But we speak God's WISDOM by means of ( the ) MYSTERY , the one Having Been Kept Secret which God Foreordained BEFORE the AGES for our Glory !!

#1 , Notice that the MYSTERY God's Wisdom , Not Pentecost !!

#2 , The verb " we speak " is in the Greek Present Tense and are to ALWAYS be speaking about the what the MYSTERY is , always !!

#3 , We see from verse 7 , that this MYSTERY has been Kept secret from the Foundation as Eph 1:4 and 2 Tim 1:9 have said !!

#4 , The verb " even the Hidden " is in the Greek Perfect Tense which was Hidden which is the AORIST TENSE or Past tense which is written in Eph 1:4 and then continues until the Departure /rapture of the Body of Christ !!

#5 , The third verb , ORDIANED , is in the Aorist or Past tense which began in Eph 1:4 and in the Active Voice which means it an Action by God Himself and the Indicative Mood means it is a FACT !!

#6 This MYSTERY is found in many verse , so read 1 Cor 15:1-3 !!

#7 And I like Rom 16:25 is the preaching of jESUS Christ which Paul calls MY GOSPEL which is by Grace !!

#8 , Preaching another Gospel is to Fall from Grace and Gal 1:8 you are ACCURSED , but yet many are not scared by this verse , are YOU ??

dan p

But of course the one that he's talking about in Eph 3 is not a mystery anymore, which is stated there clearly. That one is that faith in the Gospel, not observance of law as in Judaism, is how the promises to Israel are accessed. The same is said in Colossians (Colossians is a more specific form of the same letter as Ephesians) and in Rom 16.

I'm not sure he means the same mystery in I Cor 1-2 and definitely not in Rom 11 about Israel being partly hard all the time. And not I Cor 15 about the change of believers from mortal to immortality.

 

[achduke]

Very good understanding but, incomplete. For starters you have to reconcile Acts 10,11 and Acts 19 which was twenty years later+/- all the while keeping in remembrance the words of Peter here:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Acts 2:38-39 (KJV)

God never breaks His promises. It has to be something of/from man that hinders them, doncha think? #2 The Gifts of the Spirit are needed today probably more than any other period of time since Acts 2. That is the common sense part. OMT: Acts 2 is incidental to John 17:3.

Also let us not forget the repentance that Paul preached in Acts 20:21

Act 20:21 "testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Cross Reference]

Also let us not forget the repentance that Paul preached in Acts 20:21

Act 20:21 "testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

AMEN! Salvation of the mind [repentance]. New birth of the soul [regeneration]. Both unto one's personal Pentecost and necessarily in that order.

 

[Interplanner]

AMEN! Salvation of the mind [repentance]. New birth of the soul [regeneration]. Both unto one's personal Pentecost and necessarily in that order.

There is no set pattern or order. There is no 'personal Pentecost.' Pentecost happened to show followers of Judaism that the Messianic mission had started. that's how I cor 14 quotes Isaiah on this. There has to be followers of Judaism present to observe this happening, which is what happens in Acts 10 and 19.

Of course, I'm all for a person declaring the Gospel out of a strong compelling motivation. But this can be done at any time by the most unlikely, with complete disregard for 'stages' of personal transformation.

 

[Cross Reference]

There is no set pattern or order. There is no 'personal Pentecost.' Pentecost happened to show followers of Judaism that the Messianic mission had started. that's how I cor 14 quotes Isaiah on this. There has to be followers of Judaism present to observe this happening, which is what happens in Acts 10 and 19.

Of course, I'm all for a person declaring the Gospel out of a strong compelling motivation. But this can be done at any time by the most unlikely, with complete disregard for 'stages' of personal transformation.

I gave my reasoning from scripture. You have offered nothing to refute it except opinion from commentary of those in their own "personal" unbelief.

 

[Interplanner]

I gave my reasoning from scripture. You have offered nothing to refute it except opinion from commentary of those in their own "personal" unbelief.

Paul's official interp of Is 28 and Dt 28 is not 'my own personal belief.' You've gone into an attack, which tells me all I need to know. How about you stick to what Paul was saying, and whether it is true to Acts 2, 10, 19?

Justification through Christ is the only absolute doctrine in NT Christianity. What God does through various human experiences is all over the chart. He has had some people preach the Gospel immediately after their belief (like Paul in some cases) and had others 'cook' for years before they did anything. Actually Paul illustrates both.

There is no indication at all that all believers are supposed to 'have' Pentecost, because it was a historic event for one time and place and continency: to kickstart the Messianic Gospel among followers of Judaism. They would return home to their various synagogues that week and say 'let me tell you what happened in Jerusalem lately about a young teacher named...' and so forth.

 

[Cross Reference]

Paul's official interp of Is 28 and Dt 28 is not 'my own personal belief.'  You've gone into an attack, which [YELLOW]tells me all I need to know.[/YELLOW]  How about you stick to what Paul was saying, and whether it is true to Acts 2, 10, 19?

Tells you all you need to know?? That tells me ALL need to know of how you CAN'T support your "opinionS".

You mean Acts 2,10 and 19 can stand alone without some to defining of them?

I am not going your read chapters you wish make fit your opinion or believe they do because of some commentary you speak from.. However, if you wish to 'lift' your favorite verses from them to expound upon, please do.

Justification through Christ is the only absolute doctrine in NT Christianity.

How about the FACT of redemption made to apply to the world??

What God does through various human experiences is all over the chart. He has had some people preach the Gospel immediately after their belief (like Paul in some cases) and had others 'cook' for years before they did anything. Actually Paul illustrates both.

Paul never immediately preached anything. Wise up. No man did until He was prepared to and that includes Jesus.

There is no indication at all that all believers are supposed to 'have' Pentecost, because it was a historic event for one time and place and contingency:

Luke 4:1-14 KJV. After 30 years of preparation followed by His own "personal Pentecost" [no need for different languages here] for the "unction to function" given for any believe to follow.

to kickstart the Messianic Gospel among followers of Judaism.

<There is the Judaism again>.

They would return home to their various synagogues that week and say 'let me tell you what happened in Jerusalem lately about a young teacher named...' and so forth.

So what? Is that all since Christians churches happened because of tales you would hope them to have been?

 

[jamie]

The Hebrew word is "Shavuot" meaning - "weeks".

The word "pentecost" means fiftieth.

Shavout is the fiftieth day from Nisan 16 and is always Sivan 6.

Pentecost is the fiftieth day from the weekly Sabbath during Unleavened Bread and is always on Sunday.

Pentecost is seven complete weeks (49 days) and the next day is Pentecost.

Shavout is on Nisan 16 to obfuscate Jesus as the wave offering (the first of the firstfruits).

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. (1 Corinthians 15:22-23 NKJV)​

 

[Cross Reference]

Pentecost is seven complete weeks (49 days) and the next day is Pentecost.

The next day would be the eight day . . . . which never ends . . ))

 

[achduke]

The word "pentecost" means fiftieth.

Shavout is the fiftieth day from Nisan 16 and is always Sivan 6.

Pentecost is the fiftieth day from the weekly Sabbath during Unleavened Bread and is always on Sunday.

Pentecost is seven complete weeks (49 days) and the next day is Pentecost.

Shavout is on Nisan 16 to obfuscate Jesus as the wave offering (the first of the firstfruits).

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. (1 Corinthians 15:22-23 NKJV)​

I am of the belief that the counting starts at the weekly Sabbath and not the high day of the 15th. If it is always Sivan 6th then why count? The weekly Sabbath is not on a fixed day but Nisan 15th is a fixed day.

 

[jamie]

The next day would be the eight day . . . . which never ends . . ))

Let's see: 49 + 1 = 50 (Pentecost)

The Eighth Day is the next day after the seven day feast of Sukkot. (Leviticus 23:49)

 

[Cross Reference]

Let's see: 49 + 1 = 50 (Pentecost)

The Eighth Day is the next day after the seven day feast of Sukkot. (Leviticus 23:49)

That is correct. The future Pentecost will never end even as this one has never ended.

Satan doesn't want that thinking to be part of the gospel.

 

[Interplanner]

Paul's official interp of Is 28 and Dt 28 is not 'my own personal belief.'  You've gone into an attack, which [YELLOW]tells me all I need to know.[/YELLOW]  How about you stick to what Paul was saying, and whether it is true to Acts 2, 10, 19?

Tells you all you need to know?? That tells me ALL need to know of how you CAN'T support your "opinionS".

You mean Acts 2,10 and 19 can stand alone without some to defining of them?

I am not going your read chapters you wish make fit your opinion or believe they do because of some commentary you speak from.. However, if you wish to 'lift' your favorite verses from them to expound upon, please do.




How about the FACT of redemption made to apply to the world??



Paul never immediately preached anything. Wise up. No man did until He was prepared to and that includes Jesus.

There is no indication at all that all believers are supposed to 'have' Pentecost, because it was a historic event for one time and place and contingency:

Luke 4:1-14 KJV. After 30 years of preparation followed by His own "personal Pentecost" [no need for different languages here] for the "unction to function" given for any believe to follow.



<There is the Judaism again>.



So what? Is that all since Christians churches happened because of tales you would hope them to have been?

Acts 2, 10, 19 are the three times tongues happened, and followers of Judaism were there to see it happen so that they would know Is 28 and Dt 28 were in force.

The manifestation over in Corinth, and only there, is completely subjective and of little use, from the statements Paul made about it. He at least tried to bring them back to the historic understanding of Is 28 and Dt 28.

Redemption is part of justification. Paul is more defined by what he said about justification than anything else.

'There is the Judaism again' because tongues were meant to be seen by its followers as confirmation that the Messianic age had started and was underway and to compel them to join that mission instead of the Judaizers and zealots and their hopeless battle with Rome.

I have no idea what your last line is about. 'Is that all...' What is 'that'?

 

[Arsenios]

As far as I was aware, "Pentecost" is just the anglicized rendering of the Greek name meaning "Feast Of Weeks", which is the Jewish feast celebrating the giving of the law to Moses.

It is an Anglacized rendition of the Greek name, which does NOT mean "Feast of Weeks" but instead signifies 50 days after the beginning of the harvest... And yes, it turns out that it has other significations, and that it is indeed a Jewish term of the Diaspora who used the LXX... I thought it was an exclusively Christian term, and I was wrong... The meaning are related, but not the same, and the former is to be understood in terms of the latter, of which it was a fore-shadowing...

The Hebrew word is "Shavuot" meaning - "weeks". We know there is a Christian significance because of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit occurring during Pentecost.

The weeks are 7... Times 7 = 49... And the day after that the day of the feast, day 50... Because all the harvest is gathered in the graineries, for this is the time of the harvest of the corn and grains...

For Christians, it signifies the Bread of Life, Christ, in his sending of the Holy Spirit upon the Disciples, giving them Power from on High... For we eat His Flesh and drink His Blood, that we have Life IN us...
The reason I am being rigid concerning the Jewish aspect of Pentecost, is because the guy who started this thread is not being specific when he says "Pentecost was put on hold". We need him to be clearer about what he means.

Pentecost is the 'Feast Of Weeks' regardless of whether it's been fulfilled or not.
The difference is simply about how people celebrate it - as tradition, or legalistc duty.

It comes 50 days after the Ascension of Christ... A 49 day time of prayer and fasting together apart from the world, so as to receive the Holy Spirit of Pentecost...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

The next day would be the eight day . . . . which never ends . . ))

:thumb:



A.

 

[Cross Reference]

:thumb:



A.

I know my stuff, bro. . . You all need to stop majoring on minors and get with conversations re end of the age and such. It's time, ya know.

 

[Arsenios]

I know my stuff, bro. . . You all need to stop majoring on minors and get with conversations re end of the age and such. It's time, ya know.

The Orthodox have been living the End Times for 2000 years now...

A.

 

[Cross Reference]

The Orthodox have been living the End Times for 2000 years now...

A.

Lets not go down that path. It leads to nowhere.

Everyone is orthodox if he has been born again and entered the process of learning the ways of the Father . . . . of Jesus Christ. Just as any son of His Life should be doing. What can be more "orthodox" than that understanding when embraced by the born again by the Holy Spirit. Evangelize that message.

 

[revpete]

Hi and I am not BLOVATING so who is BITTER since you can not explain the above post and all you can say yjay I am bitter , which means you wasted all those years preaching an ACCURSED gospel , so you are the bitter one , WHAT A WASTE and are wasting my time !!

DAN P

My point proved!

Pete