WHY IS THE HOLY SPIRIT NEVER SEEN IN HEAVEN??

[Aner]

There does not appear to be a clear, unambiguous, formal reference to the Spirit of God existing in heaven. I see God in heaven - I see Jesus in heaven at the right hand of God. I NEVER see the Holy Spirit - defined in the traditional sense as as the third person of the trinity - in heaven.

Why is the Holy Spirit missing from heaven??

I will pay $20 to the first person who can show me a clear, unambiguous, formal description of the Spirit of God (in the traditional sense) in heaven.

Note: I trust the theological acumen of my colleagues such that no one will adduce the 7 spirits BEFORE the throne of God since this picture vastly differs from the traditional model.

As a corollary - why is the Holy Spirit missing from the New Heavens and New Earth in Rev 21 and 22 - in contrast, God - and Jesus - are CLEARLY, unambiguously, repeatedly and formally seen and stated as being in the new heavens and new earth.
Note: the comment re the Spirit says come is not a picture of the Holy Spirit being in the New Heavens and New Earth

Comments?

 

[Wick Stick]

John 16:13
...when he, the Spirit of truth, is come... he shall not speak of himself;

 

[God's Truth]

There does not appear to be a clear, unambiguous, formal reference to the Spirit of God existing in heaven. I see God in heaven - I see Jesus in heaven at the right hand of God. I NEVER see the Holy Spirit - defined in the traditional sense as as the third person of the trinity - in heaven.

Why is the Holy Spirit missing from heaven??

I will pay $20 to the first person who can show me a clear, unambiguous, formal description of the Spirit of God (in the traditional sense) in heaven.

Note: I trust the theological acumen of my colleagues such that no one will adduce the 7 spirits BEFORE the throne of God since this picture vastly differs from the traditional model.

As a corollary - why is the Holy Spirit missing from the New Heavens and New Earth in Rev 21 and 22 - in contrast, God - and Jesus - are CLEARLY, unambiguously, repeatedly and formally seen and stated as being in the new heavens and new earth.
Note: the comment re the Spirit says come is not a picture of the Holy Spirit being in the New Heavens and New Earth

Comments?

The Holy Spirit IS the Spirit of God.

Jesus Christ the Lord IS the Spirit.

Would you like scripture references, or do you recognize them?

 

[jamie]

Why is the Holy Spirit missing from heaven??

The Holy Spirit is not a person, it is spiritual power. Jesus compared the Holy Spirit to living water.

On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."

But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive for the Holy Spirit was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified. (John 7:37-39)​

Jesus compared the Holy Spirit to living water.

Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink' you would have asked Him and He would have given you living water." (John 4:10)​

Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." (John 4:14)

The Holy Spirit gives us the power to receive everlasting life.

Jesus explained the Holy Spirit by analogy, and he knows.

 

[Interplanner]

Yes, one thing is that he doesn't speak of himself. But John does see the sevenfold spirit of God at work in the world but before his throne, Rev 1:4, possibly doing what christ said he would do as our advocate in John 16.

 

[Aner]

Gentlemen,

Thanks so much for your input.

At present, no one has present a clear/unambiguous and formal text that describes the Holy Spirit as being in heaven.

I look forward to more input.

Greg

 

[Mark M]

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Book...Meet The Holy Spirit/holyspirit_in_heaven.htm

 

[God's Truth]

Gentlemen,

Thanks so much for your input.

At present, no one has present a clear/unambiguous and formal text that describes the Holy Spirit as being in heaven.

I look forward to more input.

Greg

What?

I can easily prove the Holy Spirit IS THE SPIRIT of God who is in heaven.

Are you blind?

 

[Mark M]

What?

I can easily prove the Holy Spirit IS THE SPIRIT of God who is in heaven.

Are you blind?

Be nice

 

[God's Truth]

Be nice

What is not nice that I said? Why didn't you tell Aner to be nice?

It all depends on the condition of the person's heart if they think the truth is offensive and whether or not you can stay humble.

For you to think I am not nice shows you might not be humble.

 

[God's Truth]

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Book...Meet The Holy Spirit/holyspirit_in_heaven.htm

Can you break it down and tell us in your own words what you believe about that linked article?

I rarely read long posts, let alone read a long article that someone here gave as link.

However, it might be good to know what you believe and what that article proves.

Can you put it in to lesser words here?

 

[Mark M]

Can you break it down and tell us in your own words what you believe about that linked article?

I rarely read long posts, let alone read a long article that someone here gave as link.

However, it might be good to know what you believe and what that article proves.

Can you put it in to lesser words here?

It's longer than it looks, I read it. It shows several examples with scripture of the Holy Spirit in heaven.

 

[Mark M]

What is not nice that I said? Why didn't you tell Aner to be nice?

It all depends on the condition of the person's heart if they think the truth is offensive and whether or not you can stay humble.

For you to think I am not nice shows you might not be humble.

Asking someone if they're blind is not nice.

 

[Aner]

Asking someone if they're blind is not nice.

Thanks for the support. I was surprised since my post is simply a genuine question.

Regarding Hyle's book - I looked at the article. The only text there is 1Jn5:7 - this text is the best known spurious text that was in any of the Greek mss (only in late mss). This is not an standard accepted text.

Thanks for your effort though!

Greg

 

[daqq]

The Holy Spirit is not a person, it is spiritual power. Jesus compared the Holy Spirit to living water.

On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."

But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive for the Holy Spirit was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified. (John 7:37-39)
​

Jesus compared the Holy Spirit to living water.

Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink' you would have asked Him and He would have given you living water." (John 4:10)​

Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." (John 4:14)

The Holy Spirit gives us the power to receive everlasting life.

Jesus explained the Holy Spirit by analogy, and he knows.

The quote from John 7:39 is not true because it ADDS to what is written for doctrinal purposes. There is no Greek text which contains the word for "given" in the passage. The Young's Literal Bible which also follows the Textus Receptus, (as the KJV does), makes this point dramatically clear. Neither is there such a statement in any of the extant manuscripts or codices, (nor the Westcott-Hort text, nor the Nestle GNT).

Nestle GNT 1904
τοῦτο δὲ εἶπεν περὶ τοῦ Πνεύματος οὗ ἔμελλον λαμβάνειν οἱ πιστεύσαντες εἰς αὐτόν· οὔπω γὰρ ἦν Πνεῦμα, ὅτι Ἰησοῦς οὐδέπω ἐδοξάσθη.

Westcott and Hort 1881
Τοῦτο δὲ εἶπεν περὶ τοῦ πνεύματος οὗ ἔμελλον λαμβάνειν οἱ πιστεύσαντες εἰς αὐτόν· οὔπω γὰρ ἦν πνεῦμα, ὅτι Ἰησοῦς οὔπω ἐδοξάσθη.

Westcott and Hort / [NA27 variants]
Τοῦτο δὲ εἶπεν περὶ τοῦ πνεύματος οὗ / ὃ ἔμελλον λαμβάνειν οἱ πιστεύσαντες εἰς αὐτόν· οὔπω γὰρ ἦν πνεῦμα, ὅτι Ἰησοῦς οὔπω / οὐδέπω ἐδοξάσθη.

RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Tοῦτο δὲ εἴπεν περὶ τοῦ πνεύματος οὗ ἔμελλον λαμβάνειν οἱ πιστεύοντες εἰς αὐτόν· οὔπω γὰρ ἦν πνεῦμα ἅγιον, ὅτι Ἰησοῦς οὐδέπω ἐδοξάσθη.

Greek Orthodox Church 1904
τοῦτο δὲ εἶπε περὶ τοῦ Πνεύματος οὗ ἔμελλον λαμβάνειν οἱ πιστεύσαντες εἰς αὐτόν· οὔπω γὰρ ἦν Πνεῦμα Ἅγιον, ὅτι Ἰησοῦς οὐδέπω ἐδοξάσθη.

Tischendorf 8th Edition
τοῦτο δὲ εἶπεν περὶ τοῦ πνεύματος οὗ ἤμελλον λαμβάνειν οἱ πιστεύσοντες εἰς αὐτόν· οὔπω γὰρ ἦν πνεῦμα, ὅτι Ἰησοῦς οὐδέπω ἐδοξάσθη.

Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
Τοῦτο δὲ εἶπε περὶ τοῦ Πνεύματος οὗ ἔμελλον λαμβάνειν οἱ πιστεύοντες εἰς αὐτόν· οὔπω γὰρ ἦν Πνεῦμα Ἅγιον, ὅτι ὁ Ἰησοῦς οὐδέπω ἐδοξάσθη.

Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
τοῦτο δὲ εἶπεν περὶ τοῦ πνεύματος οὗ ἔμελλον λαμβάνειν οἱ πιστεύοντες εἰς αὐτόν· οὔπω γὰρ ἦν πνεῦμα Ἅγιον, ὅτι ὃ Ἰησοῦς οὐδέπω ἐδοξάσθη

Every one of the following translations is false because it adds to the text for doctrinal reasons and misrepresents the author while misleading the reader into believing something that is not in the text:

JOHN 7:39 --

New International Version
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

New Living Translation
(When he said "living water," he was speaking of the Spirit, who would be given to everyone believing in him. But the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus had not yet entered into his glory.)

English Standard Version
Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Berean Study Bible
He was speaking about the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were later to receive. For the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.

Berean Literal Bible
Now He said this concerning the Spirit, whom those having believed in Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

New American Standard Bible
But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

King James Bible
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He said this about the Spirit. Those who believed in Jesus were going to receive the Spirit, for the Spirit had not yet been received because Jesus had not yet been glorified.

International Standard Version
Now he said this about the Spirit, whom those who were believing in him were to receive, because the Spirit was not yet present and Jesus had not yet been glorified.

NET Bible
(Now he said this about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were going to receive, for the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But this he spoke about The Spirit, Whom those who were trusting in him were being prepared to receive; for The Spirit had not yet been given, because Yeshua had not yet been glorified.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Jesus said this about the Spirit, whom his believers would receive. The Spirit was not yet evident, as it would be after Jesus had been glorified.

New American Standard 1977
But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Jubilee Bible 2000
(But this he spoke concerning the Spirit, which those that believe on him should receive, for the Holy Spirit was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified.)

King James 2000 Bible
(But this spoke he of the Spirit, whom they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

American King James Version
(But this spoke he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

American Standard Version
But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive: for the Spirit was not yet given ; because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Now this he said of the Spirit which they should receive, who believed in him: for as yet the Spirit was not given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

English Revised Version
But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive: for the Spirit was not yet given; because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Webster's Bible Translation
(But this he spoke of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive, for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Weymouth New Testament
He referred to the Spirit which those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not bestowed as yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.

World English Bible
But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive. For the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus wasn't yet glorified.

The following two are the only ones I have found that render the text for what it truly says:

Young's Literal Translation
and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Darby Bible Translation
But this he said concerning the Spirit, which they that believed on him were about to receive; for [the] Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.

And the reason that the author says, "the Spirit was not yet", and why it pertains to the topic of this thread, is because testimony is spirit, (whether for the good or whether for the evil), and the Testimony of Yeshua is the New Covenant Spirit, ("A new Spirit I will put within you", Ezekiel 11:19, 18:31, 36:26). Therefore he says, "For Yeshua was not yet glorified", and we know what he means when he speaks of this because Messiah was lifted up as the Seraph in the wilderness and highly exalted at Golgotha. Thus when he says, "IT IS FINISHED", it has a specific meaning in this context, (among other things), which means that the New Covenant Testimony-Spirit was complete when he breathed his last and yielded up the Spirit unto the Father. Stephen does the same thing in Acts 7, that is to say, "Receive my spirit", for his spirit is likewise pneuma-wind-breath-TESTIMONY, which testimony we read throughout that same chapter, before his stoning, and is now written for all time in the holy writ of scripture for all to read, (meaning it was clearly accepted from on High).

 

[Aner]

I continue to be without any texts which clearly/unambiguously and formally describe the Spirit of God as existing in heaven - in the same manner that Jesus and God are shown to be in heaven.

NOTE: The OP is not regarding WHO or WHAT the Spirit of God is - but simply focused on whether or not scripture clearly presents a picture of the Holy Spirit in heaven as it does of both Jesus and God.

 

[daqq]

I continue to be without any texts which clearly/unambiguously and formally describe the Spirit of God as existing in heaven - in the same manner that Jesus and God are shown to be in heaven.

NOTE: The OP is not regarding WHO or WHAT the Spirit of God is - but simply focused on whether or not scripture clearly presents a picture of the Holy Spirit in heaven as it does of both Jesus and God.

There aren't any; your point is established, (imo).

But then again, Testimony is Spirit, (and there are heavenly books).

 

[jamie]

I continue to be without any texts which clearly/unambiguously and formally describe the Spirit of God as existing in heaven - in the same manner that Jesus and God are shown to be in heaven.

Ok, since you asked here is what John said, "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous..." (1 John 2:1)

Does that answer your question?

 

[God's Truth]

Asking someone if they're blind is not nice.

Aner does not know the Holy Spirit is in heaven? I ask him if he is blind and that is not nice?

Do you think that the Holy Spirit is in heaven?


Since you are the mean police, why don't you go against those who say all kinds of 'mean' things to me?

 

[God's Truth]

I continue to be without any texts which clearly/unambiguously and formally describe the Spirit of God as existing in heaven - in the same manner that Jesus and God are shown to be in heaven.

NOTE: The OP is not regarding WHO or WHAT the Spirit of God is - but simply focused on whether or not scripture clearly presents a picture of the Holy Spirit in heaven as it does of both Jesus and God.

The Bible SAYS God is Spirit.

The Bible also says the Holy Spirit IS THE SPIRIT OF GOD.

So what why don't you believe?