If as you suggest Messiah died for all men then all men would be saved. I know of one disgustingly vile rotten to the core, vicious evil and despicable sinner who didn't ask to be saved was saved...me.
Why God Cannot Decree Someones Salvation
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
If as you suggest Messiah died for all men then all men would be saved. I know of one disgustingly vile rotten to the core, vicious evil and despicable sinner who didn't ask to be saved was saved...me.
glorydaz
Well-known member
You must have a hard time with this verse then.
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
It's funny how some people say they didn't ask to be saved, but God knows what lies deep within the hearts of all men...and that is an ingrained desire to know his Creator. Very few will admit their great need and desire, and only see it after they're saved.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Those IN the Elect ONE are the elect.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
What was foreknown was the body of Christ (the Elect ONE) by the Gospel of Salvation.
Epoisses
New member
No. This is the Achilles heel of your belief set. The atonement reconciled the sin problem once and for all. Belief in Christ did not happen at the cross and it is sheer ignorance to say that it does. The message of Salvation goes to the world after the cross.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:13-17
Belief in Christ does not occur until one has heard the gospel and then believes the gospel. Calvinists do away with the personal experience of conversion. God does not convert someone until they hear the gospel and it is just stupidity to say that he does. Your entire doctrine is built upon a chain of events that never occurs in any true conversion experience.
Iconoclast85
New member
A blindman cannot see a rainbow unless he is given eyesight.
Iconoclast85
New member
Elect individuals are chosen In Christ before the world began 2tim1:9
9*Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Eagles Wings
New member
By what authority do you claim another to be a goat?
glorydaz
Well-known member
His own purpose was a body of believers and grace was through the blood of the Elect ONE. The body of Christ is made up of individuals, but it's our position IN HIM that makes us of the elect.
1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Those IN HIM were chosen....as a body...adopted children.
Ephesians 1:4-5 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
glorydaz
Well-known member
By what authority do you ask?
Eagles Wings
New member
Yours, of course.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Eagles Wings
New member
We'll see.Guess that makes your question void.
The auxiliary verbs in Rms 10:13 & Co were added by the translators. It then gives the impression of being a command. This was not what was being conveyed by Paul. Paul was actually conveying a statement of fact:
"For whosoever call upon the name of Yah Veh be saved."
I know that you won't like this, but it is grammatically correct and does not give a command to do something, but gives a proof of conversion. A baby crying at birth is not a prerequisite for life, but it is proof of life.
In fact Paul was speaking from two points of view. One doctrinal and the other from personal experience. So do I.
Epoisses
New member
The perpetual unbelief from their lips. The hardened hearts of Calvinists are on display for all to see.
Epoisses
New member
When God gives a command he then empowers some to fulfill the command while others are just incapable and fail time after time. Their faith is broken. In Acts 16:31 Believe or 'pisteuo' is a verb scholar wannabe.
Eagles Wings
New member
You proved my point.
Trust is also a verb and conveys what believe does not possess, never has possessed and never will posses.
The words "trust" and "faith" mean the same thing. Believe on the other hand is not the same as trust and faith. Many believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but they don't trust or have faith in him.
Epoisses
New member
It conveys what you don't possess! You don't believe that Christ is the savior of the world which is the foundation of the gospel. You're an unbelieving goat masquerading as a sheep which is what all goats do.
Goats masquerading as sheep? hahahahahaaa. Gis a scrptur govnor.