Why Calvinist, Catholics, Others, Never Talk About Being "In Christ"

[TweetyBird]

You're wrong. His blood was not shed for those God didn't elect. It's not that they won't be saved, it's that they can't be saved. All by God's sovereign purpose.

What do you think Paul meant when he said:

Rom 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Rom 9
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[patrick jane]

What do you think Paul meant when he said:

You ARE a Calvinist !!! I knew it

 

[TweetyBird]

You ARE a Calvinist !!! I knew it

If you keep pretending I am a Calvinist, it for sure is simple obfuscation in order to avoid answering the question. Apparently you can't answer it.

 

[Nang]

I am not a Calvinist. I don't believe that there is any part of Calvinism that denies that Jesus Christ is not enough for all who call upon His Name.

TOL is not the place to learn the Reformed teachings, for these enemies of truth skew and twist Reformed beliefs in a hateful and terrible fashion. Great iniquity against divine Truth is practiced on this site.

 

[Robert Pate]

TOL is not the place to learn the Reformed teachings, for these enemies of truth skew and twist Reformed beliefs in a hateful and terrible fashion. Great iniquity against divine Truth is practiced on this site.

The only reformed beliefs came from Marten Luther. Calvinism had nothing to do with the reformation. Calvinism came out of the perverted mind of John Calvin, not the reformation.

Truth is not found in a doctrine or a book. Truth is only found in a person, John 14:6. To reject the person is to reject the truth,

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

This is a very important doctrine, yet it is not mentioned in the "Canons of Dort" nor is it mentioned in the 33 "Canons of the Council of Trent".

Robert, if what you said above is true...it proves nothing. The Council of Trent's writings were created to correct the errors of the Protestant revolutionaries. Not to expound upon every biblical principle and passage that can be found. And certainly not to address every doctrine that you determine to be very important.

Shoot, if we use that logic....how many books of the sacred Scriptures should we ignore or eliminate because they also do not address being "in Christ"?

But, you are mistaken anyway. The Council of Trent addressed being "in Christ" in Session 6: "But, though He died for all, yet do not all receive the benefit of His death, but those only unto whom the merit of His passion is communicated. For as in truth men, if they were not born propagated of the seed of Adam, would not be born unjust,-seeing that, by that propagation, they contract through him, when they are conceived, injustice as their own,-so, if they were not born again in Christ, they never would be justified; seeing that, in that new birth, there is bestowed upon them, through the merit of His passion, the grace whereby they are made just. For this benefit the apostle exhorts us, evermore to give thanks to the Father, who hath made us worthy to be partakers of the lot of the saints in light, and hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the Kingdom of the Son of his love, in whom we have redemption, and remission of sins."

The reason that Calvinist, Catholics and others do not teach the "In Christ" doctrine is because they don't believe in it. In the Calvinist doctrine they are not saved by being "In Christ" they are saved by being predestinated. Even though there is no scripture about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell. Catholics apparently do not believe that they need to be "In Christ" simply because they don't teach it. If they don't teach it, its because they don't believe it.

I don't know about Calvinists, but you really should look at the online Catechism of the Catholic Church before you say some stuff. You could avoid making mistakes.

Part 3 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church is entitled: "Life in Christ" and continues to explain that very idea for almost 200 pages.

What does it mean to be "In Christ?"

It means that you have ceased from your own works (religion) and you are resting in the works and the person of Jesus Christ for your salvation. Paul wrote, "For he that has enter into his rest, he has also ceased from his own works" Hebrews 4:10. It means that you have stopped trying to be good enough and have come to the realization that Christ was good enough for you. If anyone will be saved in the judgment it will be because of the merits of Jesus Christ.

Sortof a nice summary there, Robert. Mostly accurate, too.

But I, for myself, will take the depth and richness of the 200 pages of explanation in the Catholic Catechism of what it means to live a life "in Christ" over your 4 sentences.

Peace.

 

[Ktoyou]

TOL is not the place to learn the Reformed teachings, for these enemies of truth skew and twist Reformed beliefs in a hateful and terrible fashion. Great iniquity against divine Truth is practiced on this site.

Some old members do nor twist, or be the enemy. As it is, I have some of that re-form myself!:carryon:

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert, if what you said above is true...it proves nothing. The Council of Trent's writings were created to correct the errors of the Protestant revolutionaries. Not to expound upon every biblical principle and passage that can be found. And certainly not to address every doctrine that you determine to be very important.

Shoot, if we use that logic....how many books of the sacred Scriptures should we ignore or eliminate because they also do not address being "in Christ"?

But, you are mistaken anyway. The Council of Trent addressed being "in Christ" in Session 6: "But, though He died for all, yet do not all receive the benefit of His death, but those only unto whom the merit of His passion is communicated. For as in truth men, if they were not born propagated of the seed of Adam, would not be born unjust,-seeing that, by that propagation, they contract through him, when they are conceived, injustice as their own,-so, if they were not born again in Christ, they never would be justified; seeing that, in that new birth, there is bestowed upon them, through the merit of His passion, the grace whereby they are made just. For this benefit the apostle exhorts us, evermore to give thanks to the Father, who hath made us worthy to be partakers of the lot of the saints in light, and hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the Kingdom of the Son of his love, in whom we have redemption, and remission of sins."



I don't know about Calvinists, but you really should look at the online Catechism of the Catholic Church before you say some stuff. You could avoid making mistakes.

Part 3 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church is entitled: "Life in Christ" and continues to explain that very idea for almost 200 pages.



Sortof a nice summary there, Robert. Mostly accurate, too.

But I, for myself, will take the depth and richness of the 200 pages of explanation in the Catholic Catechism of what it means to live a life "in Christ" over your 4 sentences.

Peace.

If you have to learn to be a Christian by reading or studying the catechism, you are not one.

 

[jamie]

Truth is not found in a doctrine or a book.

And Jesus said, "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth."

There is a Book of doctrines, you're just not familiar with it.

 

[Robert Pate]

And Jesus said, "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth."

There is a Book of doctrines, you're just not familiar with it.

I am very familiar with the Bible. You are the one that seems to have a problem with it.

The words that Jesus spoke are truth and life, only because he is truth and life, John 14:6.

 

[patrick jane]

What do you think Paul meant when he said:

Rom 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Rom 9
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Paul is saying that Christ died for us all, we are all elect if we hear and believe His Word -

 

[Robert Pate]

Paul is saying that Christ died for us all, we are all elect if we hear and believe His Word -

That is why Paul wrote... "WHOSOEVER that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

The definition for "whosoever" is all, anyone, everyone.

 

[Crucible]

The only reformed beliefs came from Marten Luther. Calvinism had nothing to do with the reformation

:rotfl:

That's why Calvinist doctrine is called 'Reformed'.

~Pate logic 101~


Martin Luther was heavily Catholic and held to Augustinian predestination. Basically no more your friend than Calvin.
But don't let facts get in the way of believing whatever arbitrary nonsense comes from your lips

 

[fishrovmen]

The reason that people don't talk about being "in Christ" around you, Robert, is because they don't want you to mistake the term "in Christ" which they are talking about with your faulty, unbiblical view where the whole world is "in Christ", yet not everyone is "in Christ" (who even knows what that means?).

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

If you have to learn to be a Christian by reading or studying the catechism, you are not one.

Says who Robert?

Did Jesus say that? No.
Did Paul say that? No.
Does anyone say that in Scripture? No.

So says who?

And after you tell me who...please tell me why should I believe them?

What authority do they have over me?

And how did they receive this authority?

Just curious.

Peace.

 

[Ktoyou]

The first question may be "Why (all those groups) Never Talk About Being"

When I am absorbed in trouble-free typing, the computer and the role that it plays in my activity are transparent aspects of my experience. But if the computer crashes, I become aware of it as an entity with which I was working in the practical context, in order to write .

There is to be gained space for reflection on other when disruption occurs, such that I may be able to listen.

 

[Robert Pate]

Salvation is a thing of the heart.

We believe with our heart and confess with our mouth, Romans 10:6-11.

Salvation does not come from head knowledge, as much as it does from heart knowledge.

 

[beloved57]

Salvation is a thing of the heart.

We believe with our heart and confess with our mouth, Romans 10:6-11.

Salvation does not come from head knowledge, as much as it does from heart knowledge.

The natural heart of man is evil and desperately wicked. Jer 17:8. So the heart in Rom 10 is a New heart given in the newbirth.

 

[God's Truth]

Salvation is a thing of the heart.

We believe with our heart and confess with our mouth, Romans 10:6-11.

Salvation does not come from head knowledge, as much as it does from heart knowledge.

You can't just say anything you want. God tells us it is with the HEART and with the MIND.

Hebrews 10:16 "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

Hebrews 8:10
This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds, and inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people.

 

[Ktoyou]

Salvation is a thing of the heart.

We believe with our heart and confess with our mouth, Romans 10:6-11.

Salvation does not come from head knowledge, as much as it does from heart knowledge.

So, you think hearts think and heads are ornaments?