Who is Bob Enyart?

Status
Not open for further replies.

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
There are similarities, but Process theology tends to lead to a more 'finite' god, rather than the infinite God of Scripture. Conservative books attacking Open Theism sometimes attack Process ideas that Open Theists would not agree with either.

I will try to dig something up in the next few days on the differences (I am at work at the moment).
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
A few thoughts on Process theology paraphrased from "The Openness of God" IVP Pinnock, Rice, Sanders, Hasker, Basinger:

(p.92 ff.= Sanders)
Progressive theology (modern)...process theology...God is ontologically dependent on the world....emphasize divine immanence...all things are essentially related..God and the world are involved in an ontologically interdependent relationship.

- criticizes classical theism for overemphasis on absolute transendence, immutability, impassibility. Instead, God is seen as an ever-changing being evolving toward the perfection that is potentially his. God is creative, but only in the sense that God 'creates' as WE act, since this God cannnot unilaterally act upon the world. (?!)

(Open Theism differs with that understanding; God is sovereign, transcedent, distinct from creation, and immanent).

- God lures the world by love toward his purposes. "In general, process thought tends to stray from any biblical moorings and substitutes the metaphysics of change for the metaphysics of static substance, ending up with a God that, if personal at all, CANNOT act in history. What sort of relationship can we have with a God who cannot act or communicate clearly? Consequently, the doctrines of creation, incarnation and salvation are radically revised." (cf. Stoicism; Hellenism= the world is not created but eternally dependent on God).

Pinnock (p.112 ff.):

- Process theology denies ontological independence, maintaining that God needs the world as much as the world needs God (rather than uncreated/created distinction).

- It makes God too passive, able only to experience the world and to organize the elements that present themselves to him.

- Process theology moves away from the static model, but its dynamic model is not as biblical as Open Theism (= The Creator gives life and freedom to the creature and voluntarily limits the exercise of his power in relation to it. God's openness to the world is freely chosen, not compelled).

Hasker (p. 134; 138 ff.):

- theories (highest to lowest level of divine control) include Calvinism, Molinism, simple foreknowledge,

free will theism= there are some logical limitations on God's knowledge of the future,

process theology (neoclassical theism)= many aspects of the future are unknowable but also imposes some very stringent inherent limitations on the way in which God is ABLE to act in the world (OV disagrees).

- main proponents A.N. Whitehead and Charles Hartshorne: (synthesis with Greek philosophy)

- God and the world are interdependent ('the world created God').

- God's power is always persuasive and never coercive. God does not permit the evil, but could not prevent it (too limiting).

Open theism is a third alternative to the extremes of Calvinim and Process Theology. It embodies many of the strengths of both views while avoiding their weaknesses.

So, some of the anti-Open View books attack the weaknesses of Process theology (straw man caricature of the Open view) claiming it makes God finite and impotent (Open Theism upholds God's absolute wonders). They confuse the views and do not fairly represent or understand the Open view (who would also attack process thought on many points).
 
Last edited:

philosophizer

New member
Originally posted by Lucky8
:darwinsm:

Sorry Mateo, now that you found out my true identity, I'll have to kill you. :cool:


:singer:
"The night Santa went crazy,
The night Saint Nick went insane,
Realized he'd been gettin the raw deal,
Something finally must have snapped in his brain."
 

Poly

Blessed beyond measure
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I gather Turbo's having a bad day today.
 

philosophizer

New member
"The Night Santa Went Crazy", by Weird Al

Down in the workshop all the elves were makin' toys
For the good Gentile girls and the good Gentile boys
When the boss busted in, nearly scared 'em half to death
Had a rifle in his hands and cheap whiskey on his breath
From his beard to his boots he was covered with ammo
Like a big fat drunk disgruntled Yuletide Rambo
And he smiled as he said with a twinkle in his eye,
"Merry Christmas to all - now you're all gonna die!"

The night Santa went crazy
The night St. Nick went insane
Realized he'd been gettin' a raw deal
Something finally must have snapped in his brain

Well, the workshop is gone now, he decided to bomb it
Everywhere you'll find pieces of Cupid and Comet
And he tied up his helpers and he held the elves hostage
And he ground up poor Rudolph into reindeer sausage
He got Dancer and Prancer with an old German Luger
And he slashed up Dasher just like Freddy Krueger
And he picked up a flamethrower and he barbequed Blitzen
And he took a big bite and said, "It tastes just like chicken!"

The night Santa went crazy
The night Kris Kringle went nuts
Now you can't hardly walk around the North Pole
Without steppin' in reindeer guts

There's the National Guard and the F.B.I.
There's a van from the Eyewitness News
And helicopters circlin' 'round in the sky
And the bullets are flyin', the body count's risin'
And everyone's dyin' to know, oh Santa, why?
My my my my my my
You used to be such a jolly guy

Yes, Virginia, now Santa's doin' time
In a federal prison for his infamous crime
Hey, little friend, now don't you cry no more tears
He'll be out with good behavior in 700 more years
But now Vixen's in therapy and Donner's still nervous
And the elves all got jobs working for the postal service
And they say Mrs. Clause, she's on the phone every night
With her lawyer negotiating the movie rights

They're talkin' bout - the night Santa went crazy
The night St. Nicholas flipped
Broke his back for some milk and cookies
Sounds to me like he was tired of gettin' gypped

Wo, the night Santa went crazy
The night St. Nick went insane
Realized he's gettin' a raw deal
Something finally must have snapped in his brain
Wo, something finally must have snapped in his brain
Tell ya, something finally must have snapped... in his brain
 

LightSon

New member
Originally posted by Turbo
"Merry Christmas to all... Now you're all gonna DIE!!"

I like how you balanced the morbid message with the gay red & green Christmas colors. Nice touch!
 

Mateo

New member
poly speculated:

"I gather Turbo's having a bad day today."


Mateo offers this possibility:


He might already be watching that Christmas chestnut, "The Crinch Who Stole Cristmas".



:think:
 

Turbo

Caped Crusader
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Lucky8
This is a parody of which song?
That song was a Weird Al original. His albums typically are about half parodies, half originals (or parodies of a style), plus one polka medley. That Santa song kind of alternated between a pop Christmas song and a hard rock.
 
Last edited:

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Originally posted by Mateo
"Who knows, in a generation Calvinism may be relegated to the history books as Catholic indulgences are now.

Any comments?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's keep the hope alive."



Who knows, maybe in the fullness of time "Open Theism" will meet the same fate. I thinkin' it will likely take the return of Jesus to permanently despense with the three of them.

Thinkin' out loud,

Mateo

Please elaborate.

Is this more nonismatism?

Resting in Him,
Clete

P.S. "Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deosn't raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?"

(Now I know why I am such a poor proof reader—especially of my own writing.) :think: :cool:
 
Last edited:

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Originally posted by Mateo
Please elaborate.

Is this more nonismatism?

Resting in Him,
Clete


Yeah Buddy!


Mr. Jefferson,

Here is your elaboration...

http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10576


Love,

Mateo

Since this thread is about answering the question, "Who is Bob Enyart?", I would like to express my satisfaction that such a concept as Nonismatism has been brought up. I can hardly think of anything more appropriate!
I liken Mateo's approach to theology to Bruce Lee's approach to the martial arts. Bruce rejected everything that was assumed to be true and relied only on what worked, and worked best. Bruce focused on that and mastered it until eventually it became itself what he had initially rejected, a system of martial arts.
Mateo's 'Nonismatism' attempts to do the same. Rejecting the notion that "what is orthodox is correct", nonismatics test, question, study, and examine everything and stand only on that which can be shown to be the truest and best.
This is of course a very noble undertaking. Instead of 'Nonismatism" one might have called it 'Bereanism'! But that would have defeated the point! ;)
In any case, I think Bob Enyart beat us all to the nonismatism punch by about 25 years or so. The result of which was "The Plot" and one of the most effective ministries that I've ever been exposed to.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Yorzhik

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by LightSon
The list is at 29:

1Way
AROTO
Becky
Brellix
Clete Pfeiffer
CRASH
Crow
ddevonb
deardelmar
Denver Survivor
drbrumley
drRansom (possibly)
frugalmom
Jefferson
Knight
Lion
Mr Potato Head
NarrowWay
Neo01
Nineveh
Poly
RATitude
Shimei
Sibbie
Smackdab
Turbo
tuxpower
wholearmor (possibly)
Wrestlerdude16

I didn't end up on the list... or does one's position on copyrights matter? :D
 

Zimfan

New member
Originally posted by Turbo
That song was a Weird Al original. His albums typically are about half parodies, half originals (or parodies of a style), plus one polka medley. That Santa song kind of alternated between a pop Christmas song and a hard rock.

My favorite Christmas song. I can't believe I missed someone quoting that song. Now that someone else has posted them I have no excuse to type up all the lyrics by memory. :(

:D
 

Mateo

New member
Clete offered:

This is of course a very noble undertaking. Instead of 'Nonismatism" one might have called it 'Bereanism'! But that would have defeated the point!


Mateo (smiling wryly):

Ah So glasshoppa... you perceive the paradox.


Actually I considered the Bereans as well but those that claim the name today are generally dispys and...well... you know what that means...

:kookoo: :D
 

Turbo

Caped Crusader
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Zimfan
My favorite Christmas song. I can't believe I missed someone quoting that song. Now that someone else has posted them I have no excuse to type up all the lyrics by memory. :(

:D
Psst! Christmas at Ground Zero is still up for grabs. ;)
 

Turbo

Caped Crusader
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Yorzhik
I didn't end up on the list... or does one's position on copyrights matter? :D
:thumb: Do you know of anyone else we've missed so far?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top