What say you? Is the Bride the same as the body of Christ?

musterion

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Not much of a comfort, is it?

Ever notice how the ones who preach entering the Tribulation always want you to be terrified of falling away unto perdition RIGHT NOW, TODAY . . . but they always seem to believe they're tough enough to endure entering a time of wrath unlike anything the world has ever seen? A pretty high opinion of themselves, they have.

Anyway, as has been shown many times on this very board, the wrath of God starts when the Lamb breaks the first seal, making it the wrath of the Son as much as it is the wrath of the Father (keep this in mind, it's rather important).

"Tambora" wants us to believe the Body of Christ will undergo at least part of that wrath, INITATED BY CHRIST HIMSELF, and many saved Body members who are unprepared or just weak will fail and land in Hell.

But, fortunately, Paul says we are not appointed to ANY wrath AT ALL.

So how could we be appointed to THE WRATH OF CHRIST, who is our Head?

They're as stupid as they are wicked and blasphemous.
 

JudgeRightly

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None of the Bible was written to us.

Yes, that's our argument.

But it WAS written FOR us.

You're right. I don't see it. If it was there, I would.

This is a textbook example of an argument from incredulity.

It's a fallacy for a reason.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's false.

If you could read without the indoctrination, you would see it is manufactured then placed into the text.

Says the one reading scripture with her own indoctrination, reading her own beliefs into the scripture.

Over and out. Not going around that mulberry bush again.

People who run when confronted with ideas that oppose their worldview are called cowards.
 

Hoping

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It DOES mean that it was written "to the Hebrews." AKA Israel.



It means that Ephesians was written *gasp!* to the Christians in Ephesus.



You asked how we know that those verses were for the tribulation saints. The Tribulation saints are part of Israel, and the post I made shows you clearly why that is the case. It wasn't just a claim, it was an argument for my position.



Israel will go through the Great Tribulation, while Christians will have been caught up.\

Ergo, any saints that exist on earth must be of Israel.

Scripture shows that the verses quoted were for Israel, which is consistent with the above conclusion.
You don't consider believing Jews as Christians?
I do.
What was Paul?
 

glorydaz

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None of the Bible was written to us.
Nonsense. I guess God was pretty silly to make sure we have the Bible today.

You're right. I don't see it. If it was there, I would. If you could read without the indoctrination, you would see it is manufactured then placed into the text.
Over and out. Not going around that mulberry bush again.
You don't see it because you're blind to the basic Gospel of salvation.

And you're so filled with pride, that you cling to your blindness like it's a security blanket.
All we can do is put the truth out there, and you're free to reject it.
 

Hoping

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Hebrews: Full title of the book is "The Epistle to the Hebrews" 🤯
1 Peter: See 1:1-2; 2:4-12; 5:1-4; all of which are references to Israel, their culture, or speaking as if to Israel in an "us vs them" mindset compared to the Gentiles
I don't see any indication that the 1 Peter verses are addressing only Jewish believers.
In fact, 1 Peter 2:10 seems to be directly addressing Gentiles..."Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."
2 Peter: See 3:1; 2 Peter is written to the same group as 1 Peter.
Same as above.
The "Rapture" crowd were the first folks to entice me into believing the bible, but they could never answer the question of who exactly was Jesus "coming early" for?
Sinners?
(And now you opine that it is just Gentile sinners.) ?
That is when God got me in touch with those who preach perfect obedience to God.
Thanks be to God, in the name of Jesus Christ.
 
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JudgeRightly

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I don't see any indication that the 1 Peter verses are addressing only Jewish believers.

Dispersion, the diaspora, is talking about Jews.

Peter addresses his audience and mentions GENTILES as a party outside of those he's talking to. Ergo, he's talking to Jews ABOUT Gentiles.

In fact, 1 Peter 2:10 seems to be directly addressing Gentiles..."Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

Mercy has EVERYTHING to do with LAW. The people of the LAW is Israel.

Same as above.
The "revelations" crowd

Who?

were the first folks to entice me into believing the bible, but they could never answer the question of who exactly was Jesus "coming early" for?

Context please?

Sinners?
(And now you opine that it is just Gentile sinners.)?
That is when God got me in touch with those who preach perfect obedience to God.
 

Hoping

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Jews who believe come to believe in Christ in the present dispensation are Christians, yes.
Prior to Paul's conversion, however, that is NOT the case.

The first Christian.
Christian is simply a title put on the early believers at Antioch, both Jew and Gentile.
Jews went there and spread the "good word".
Paul was far from the first.
Every man in Christ can be called a Christian.
It would have been an apt moniker from the day of Pentecost, when the first Jews were baptized into Christ.
 

JudgeRightly

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Christian is simply a title put on the early believers at Antioch,

Yes, and?

We can call Paul the first Christian just like we can say New York was founded the same year New Amsterdam was founded.

both Jew and Gentile.

WRONG.

"Neither Jew nor Greek"!

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. - Galatians 3:28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians3:28&version=NKJV

where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all. - Colossians 3:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians3:11&version=NKJV

Jews went there and spread the "good word".

Which one? What book/chapter/verse are you referring to?

Paul was far from the first.

Paul himself says:

However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. - 1 Timothy 1:16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy1:16&version=NKJV

I'll take what Paul says over you.

Every man in Christ can be called a Christian.

Correction: every one who believes on Christ for everlasting life is a Christian.

It would have been an apt moniker from the day of Pentecost, when the first Jews were baptized into Christ.

Chapter, verse.
 

Hoping

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Dispersion, the diaspora, is talking about Jews.
I don't see either word in 1 Peter.
Peter addresses his audience and mentions GENTILES as a party outside of those he's talking to. Ergo, he's talking to Jews ABOUT Gentiles.
It could just as easily be juxtaposing Gentiles with Christians.
Mercy has EVERYTHING to do with LAW. The people of the LAW is Israel.
It is written,,, "are now the people of God".
He is talking to Gentiles who used to NOT be "the people of God"
We are all one now
I went back and fixed that misnaming of the "early escape" group I was once with.
"Rapture"...that's it !
I need to go back and fix it again.
Context please?
Acts 11:26..."And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."
They were disciples of the Lord, just as we are today.
 
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glorydaz

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The "Rapture" crowd were the first folks to entice me into believing the bible, but they could never answer the question of who exactly was Jesus "coming early" for?
Sinners?
(And now you opine that it is just Gentile sinners.) ?
That is when God got me in touch with those who preach perfect obedience to God.
Thanks be to God, in the name of Jesus Christ.
Funny, did the rapture crowd preach the gospel to you?

God is coming for His church. The saved.
We are saved through Christ's obedience on the cross....not our own.
 

Hoping

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Yes, and?
All believers are Christians.
We can call Paul the first Christian just like we can say New York was founded the same year New Amsterdam was founded.
Neither point bears any weight.
Paul went to a place where believers were being called Christians before Paul was called one.
WRONG.
"Neither Jew nor Greek"!
Correct, they are both called Christians now.
But you say Jesus is coming back early for Gentile believers and not Jewish believers.
It doesn't make sense.
Which one? What book/chapter/verse are you referring to?
Acts 11:26, where believers of every ilk were first referred to as Christians
Paul himself says:
However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. - 1 Timothy 1:16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy1:16&version=NKJV
Yet 3000 were already in Christ from the day of Pentecost.
How many in Antioch" Samaria? Ethiopia? Joppa?
All before Paul's conversion.
You have taken a hyperbole statement and turned it into a doctrine.
Paul was, by his own account, the worst sinner before his conversion, and that is the intent of his account, that none are too bad to be accepted in repentance and baptism/conversion.
I'll take what Paul says over you.
Fine, but look at the context and the reality if the timing.
Correction: every one who believes on Christ for everlasting life is a Christian.
You see some difference between believing on Christ and being in Christ?
I don't
Chapter, verse.
Acts 2:41..."Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."
Rom 6:3..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"
There were folks "in Christ" from the first day of the dispensation of the gift of the Holy Ghost.
 

JudgeRightly

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I don't see either word in 1 Peter.

It's LITERALLY the first verse in the book!

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, - 1 Peter 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Peter1:1&version=NKJV

Screenshot_20220209-205025.png

It could just as easily be juxtaposing Gentiles with Christians.

Given the context, not possible.

Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious,you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, “Behold, I lay in Zion A chief cornerstone, elect, precious, And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, “The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone,”and “A stone of stumbling And a rock of offense.” They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul,having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation. - 1 Peter 2:4-12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Peter2:4-12&version=NKJV

It is written,,, "are now the people of God".
He is talking to Gentiles who used to NOT be "the people of God"

The way he words it he's talking about how Israel used to not be a people, but is now a people.

Again, the context doesn't allow for it to be referring to anyone but Israel:

But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. - 1 Peter 2:9-10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Peter2:9-10&version=NKJV

The highlighted portion is still talking about the "chosen generation (Israel is called "the ELECT Lady", "elect" means chosen), royal priesthood, holy NATION."

Christians don't form a nation. We're a creature with many members.

We are all one now

Yes, "now" being the key word.

I went back and fixed that misnaming of the "early escape" group I was once with.
"Rapture"...that's it !
I need to go back and fix it again.

Never heard of them.

Acts 11:26..."And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."
They were disciples of the Lord, just as we are today.

You're still missing the point I'm making.

New York was founded in 1624. But it wasn't called New york back then, it was called New Amsterdam. Yet we still can say that New York (which wasn't called that until 40 years later in 1664) was founded in 1624.

In the same way, Paul was the first Christian, even though he wasn't CALLED a Christian back then.

Hence why he wrote, and I quoted, 1 Timothy 1:16:

However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. - 1 Timothy 1:16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy1:16&version=NKJV
 

Hoping

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Funny, did the rapture crowd preach the gospel to you?
I already believed that Jesus died for my sins and was raised from the dead.
Fat lot of good it would have dome me though, as I was still a rebellious loser.
God is coming for His church. The saved.
Yep, on the last day.
We are saved through Christ's obedience on the cross....not our own.
We do have our part to play.
No disobedient man will be granted eternal life.
 

glorydaz

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I already believed that Jesus died for my sins and was raised from the dead.
Fat lot of good it would have dome me though, as I was still a rebellious loser.

Even the devils believe that.
Yep, on the last day.

Yes, if you're unsaved and end up going through the Tribulation.
We do have our part to play.
No disobedient man will be granted eternal life.
Then Jesus didn't die for your sins, did He?
 

Hoping

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It's LITERALLY the first verse in the book!
Sorry, your "new" version of scripture leads you astray.
Given the context, not possible.

Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, “Behold, I lay in Zion A chief cornerstone, elect, precious, And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame. ”Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, “The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone, ”and “A stone of stumbling And a rock of offense.” They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed. But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation. - 1 Peter 2:4-12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Peter2:4-12&version=NKJV
Seemingly, it is addressed to "you who believe" (verse 7)
The way he words it he's talking about how Israel used to not be a people, but is now a people.
The Jews have been the people of God since Abraham received the promises.
The Gentiles?
Not so much.
Again, the context doesn't allow for it to be referring to anyone but Israel:
But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. - 1 Peter 2:9-10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Peter2:9-10&version=NKJV
The highlighted portion is still talking about the "chosen generation (Israel is called "the ELECT Lady", "elect" means chosen), royal priesthood, holy NATION."
If that is the way you see it, so be it.
But I take the words to heart like they are addressed to me.
Christians don't form a nation. We're a creature with many members.
Including Jews.
Yes, "now" being the key word.
Never heard of them.
Interesting, as many here seem to think Jesus is coming back early for them.
You're still missing the point I'm making.
New York was founded in 1624. But it wasn't called New York back then, it was called New Amsterdam. Yet we still can say that New York (which wasn't called that until 40 years later in 1664) was founded in 1624.
In the same way, Paul was the first Christian, even though he wasn't CALLED a Christian back then.
I feel that Ananias of Damascus, and at least 3000 others were in Christ before Paul.
Hence why he wrote, and I quoted, 1 Timothy 1:16:
However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. - 1 Timothy 1:16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy1:16&version=NKJV
I see it differently.
As we know Paul wasn't the "first" believer or Christian, your point is moot.
He was the first in line for destruction, however.
 

Hoping

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Even the devils believe that.
So do a lot of folks who say they are Christians.
Yes, if you're unsaved and end up going through the Tribulation.
Who do you think will refuse the mark of the beast?
Then Jesus didn't die for your sins, did He?
He did, and by my acceptance of His worthy sacrifice, and my submission unto Him, I will prove beyond any doubt that I am a believer.
Those who don't accept it or submit will be lost.
 

Omniskeptical

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As we know Paul wasn't the "first" believer or Christian, your point is moot.
He was the first in line for destruction, however.
Not true. His sin was persecuting the early church, but Acts records that he didn't die in Rome. But I do think Pilate believed the god of the Israel to be weak based upon poor evidence.
 

Hoping

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Not true. His sin was persecuting the early church, but Acts records that he didn't die in Rome. But I do think Pilate believed the god of the Israel to be weak based upon poor evidence.
His sin of persecuting the church made him the worst of sinners.
And the least likely for mercy to convert.

Acts didn't record it, true, but he died there anyway.
Where was Pilate mentioned?
 

Omniskeptical

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His sin of persecuting the church made him the worst of sinners.
And the least likely for mercy to convert.

Acts didn't record it, true, but he died there anyway.
Where was Pilate mentioned?
He wasn't a murderer, Barnabas saw through him. There are few times in the bible when Mankinds are saved into the afterlife. Most people wake from the dead, and are not Enoch or the Early Church which got the second coming.
 
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