What Jesus do you believe on ?

beloved57

Well-known member
Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Rom 3:26

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

2 Cor 11:4

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Theres a popular jesus these days being preached and believed on, and not the Jesus of the scripture to whom it is emphatically declared, Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Now in lieu of this stated Jesus theres the jesus of what is called today arminianism, and heres what taught regarding this false jesus:

The ‘jesus’ of Arminianism is the most popular and adored of all the counterfeit christs. This jesus is another false messiah who died, not for God’s chosen people, but for every individual ever born. His death was not to secure the salvation of anyone, but was to make salvation potential for everyone, dependent upon their free will choice of Him. This jesus is not the effectual Savior of His people, but the potential Savior of every person, thus making man’s free-will decision for God that which will ultimately decide his eternal destiny. According to Arminianism it is not Christ and His Work that makes the difference between saved and lost, but a free-will act of man. The jesus of Arminianism achieved nothing on the cross for any for whom he died unless they accept what he has done, thereby making it a valid and effectual act. The jesus of Arminianism is a false jesus and no Savior at all.

Friends, if you believe in this jesus, i must admonish you, this is not the Jesus of Matt 1:21 or Rom 3:26, neither 2 Cor 11:4
 

Nanja

Well-known member
Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Rom 3:26

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

2 Cor 11:4

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Theres a popular jesus these days being preached and believed on, and not the Jesus of the scripture to whom it is emphatically declared, Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Now in lieu of this stated Jesus theres the jesus of what is called today arminianism, and heres what taught regarding this false jesus:



Friends, if you believe in this jesus, i must admonish you, this is not the Jesus of Matt 1:21 or Rom 3:26, neither 2 Cor 11:4

Amen, exactly True Brother!

In these very last and wicked days, the false religion of Arminianism has distorted the True Jesus of scripture; making Him out to be merely a possible savior of all mankind; contingent upon some condition or performance a person meets. So in reality they don't believe that Christ came to save spiritually dead rebellious sinners, but that their jesus came to make everyone savable based upon some action of theirs that they meet or perform; so that God patiently waits to see who will make a decision to accept Him.

However, the Jesus whom I believe in, is The One that God the Father had given to His Beloved Son before the foundation Eph. 1:4-7, according to the riches of His Grace, to have forgiveness from their sins.

1 Pet. 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Absolutely everyone of these Chosen Elect are 100% Saved from their sins !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Amen, exactly True Brother!

In these very last and wicked days, the false religion of Arminianism has distorted the True Jesus of scripture; making Him out to be merely a possible savior of all mankind; contingent upon some condition or performance a person meets. So in reality they don't believe that Christ came to save spiritually dead rebellious sinners, but that their jesus came to make everyone savable based upon some action of theirs that they meet or perform; so that God patiently waits to see who will make a decision to accept Him.

However, the Jesus whom I believe in, is The One that God the Father had given to His Beloved Son before the foundation Eph. 1:4-7, according to the riches of His Grace, to have forgiveness from their sins.

1 Pet. 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Absolutely everyone of these Chosen Elect are 100% Saved from their sins !
Amen Sister !
 
2 Tim. 1:9
"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,"

When does this say that the saved are saved? I don't understand your answer.
 

OZOS

Well-known member
When God saves them.
"So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Belief precedes being

"if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Conditional recognition of who Jesus is, followed by belief, results in salvation.

"In Christ ye also trusted after ye heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation, in Whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise"

First... Heard the gospel
Then... Believed and trusted
Then... Sealed with the Holy Spirit

This is and has always been the order.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
So how do you address 1 Timothy 4:16?

Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you. - 1 Timothy 4:16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy4:16&version=NKJV

Of course we know that the saving that is eternal, is totally of God, not of ourselves, so save here, is from the pollutions of the world; its heresies and errors of false teachers. Through the preaching of the gospel, the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5 hear the Word Prov. 20:12 and are Saved Rom. 10:17, and it's the Work of God Eph. 4:11-14 to use His elect servants who obediently do His Will, which is the evidence of Salvation, but never the cause.
 

JudgeRightly

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Of course we know that the saving that is eternal, is totally of God, not of ourselves,

The verse says "save yourselves and those who hear you."

Are you now denying what scripture says?

so save here, is from the pollutions of the world; its heresies and errors of false teachers.

And what gave you that idea?

Through the preaching of the gospel, the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5 hear the Word Prov. 20:12 and are Saved Rom. 10:17, and it's the Work of God Eph. 4:11-14 to use His elect servants who obediently do His Will, which is the evidence of Salvation, but never the cause.

The verse, again, says "save yourselves."

It has nothing to do with being elect, and reading such into the passage is eisegesis, not exegesis. In other words, you're reading your beliefs into the text.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
So how do you address 1 Timothy 4:16?

Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you. - 1 Timothy 4:16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy4:16&version=NKJV
Well it's plain as day that Paul already considered Timothy and Himself and other Believers already saved according to the Eternal Purpose of God in Christ 2 Tim 1:9

9 who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

So it's obvious that 1 Tim 4:16 is not speaking about that.
 

JudgeRightly

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Well it's plain as day that Paul already considered Timothy and Himself and other Believers already saved according to the Eternal Purpose of God in Christ 2 Tim 1:9

9 who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

So it's obvious that 1 Tim 4:16 is not speaking about that.

And?

Does that change the fact that it says "save yourselves"?

No, it doesn't.

According to your beliefs, it should say something along the lines of "Hope that God has already unilaterallly saved you before the foundation of the world.."
 
U seem confused
I think I got it now; you do agree with this.
Absolutely everyone of these Chosen Elect are 100% Saved from their sins !
All the elect are already saved.
Then why did you post this? It doesn't matter what anyone believes! The end is the same!
Friends, if you believe in this jesus, i must admonish you, this is not the Jesus of Matt 1:21 or Rom 3:26, neither 2 Cor 11:4
You think all the elect are already saved and you think John the Baptist was a liar:
John 1:29, "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

You also believe that Jesus was a liar:
John 6:51, "I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
John 6:33, "For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world."

You think that the Apostle John was a liar:
John 1:9, "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."


You think Paul was a liar:
Romans 5:18, "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

You are the liar! Jesus did exactly what the Bible says He did!

Now in lieu of this stated Jesus theres the jesus of what is called today arminianism, and heres what taught regarding this false jesus:
The ‘jesus’ of Arminianism is the most popular and adored of all the counterfeit christs. This jesus is another false messiah who died, not for God’s chosen people, but for every individual ever born.
It has nothing to do with "Arminianism" as you say, but rather exactly what the Bible says. Jesus did die for his chosen ones; all of them. His death was not to secure the salvation of anyone.

His death was not to secure the salvation of anyone,
This is exactly right! Nowhere does scripture teach that death secured salvation! How could you ever believe that if Jesus never raised from the dead that a few elite would make it to eternal life?
You're still pushing the idea that the Apostle Paul was a liar! He said, "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. "
His death was not to secure the salvation of anyone, but was to make salvation potential for everyone, dependent upon their free will choice of Him.
Any one who was ever saved, or ever will be saved, cannot believe that salvation is dependent upon themselves; A Calvinistic cop-out!
This jesus is not the effectual Savior of His people, but the potential Savior of every person, thus making man’s free-will decision for God that which will ultimately decide his eternal destiny.
Wrong again! Jesus of scripture IS the Savior of His people; all of them! It is not "man’s free-will decision" that makes Jesus Savior of the world; "the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world"!

According to Arminianism it is not Christ and His Work that makes the difference between saved and lost, but a free-will act of man. The jesus of Arminianism achieved nothing on the cross for any for whom he died unless they accept what he has done, thereby making it a valid and effectual act. The jesus of Arminianism is a false jesus and no Savior at all.
The kettle calling the pot black! Calvinism teaches that Jesus cannot save a man! Hear ye, hear ye ! A savior here we have that cannot save you!!!!!

Again:
No one who is saved, or ever will be saved, believes it to be an act of themselves. It's an impossibility!

On the other hand, can anyone "trust" a 'god' who creates evil, ordains sin, and wills the wickedness of man, all for his own pleasure? Is it possible to "believe" in a 'Jesus' for salvation, who hates babies and creates them to be damned, for his own pleasure? And you have the gall and arrogance, to claim that you've been 'chosen' above that baby and you have the impudence and audacity to rejoice about that!!!! Anybody with a 'right' mind would be sorrowing.

Right or wrong, an 'Arminian' Jesus 'beats that all hollow'!!!!
 

beloved57

Well-known member
And?

Does that change the fact that it says "save yourselves"?

No, it doesn't.

According to your beliefs, it should say something along the lines of "Hope that God has already unilaterallly saved you before the foundation of the world.."
What do you mean And ?
 

beloved57

Well-known member
I think I got it now; you do agree with this.

All the elect are already saved.
Then why did you post this? It doesn't matter what anyone believes! The end is the same!

You think all the elect are already saved and you think John the Baptist was a liar:
John 1:29, "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

You also believe that Jesus was a liar:
John 6:51, "I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
John 6:33, "For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world."

You think that the Apostle John was a liar:
John 1:9, "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."


You think Paul was a liar:
Romans 5:18, "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

You are the liar! Jesus did exactly what the Bible says He did!



It has nothing to do with "Arminianism" as you say, but rather exactly what the Bible says. Jesus did die for his chosen ones; all of them. His death was not to secure the salvation of anyone.


This is exactly right! Nowhere does scripture teach that death secured salvation! How could you ever believe that if Jesus never raised from the dead that a few elite would make it to eternal life?
You're still pushing the idea that the Apostle Paul was a liar! He said, "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. "

Any one who was ever saved, or ever will be saved, cannot believe that salvation is dependent upon themselves; A Calvinistic cop-out!

Wrong again! Jesus of scripture IS the Savior of His people; all of them! It is not "man’s free-will decision" that makes Jesus Savior of the world; "the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world"!


The kettle calling the pot black! Calvinism teaches that Jesus cannot save a man! Hear ye, hear ye ! A savior here we have that cannot save you!!!!!

Again:
No one who is saved, or ever will be saved, believes it to be an act of themselves. It's an impossibility!

On the other hand, can anyone "trust" a 'god' who creates evil, ordains sin, and wills the wickedness of man, all for his own pleasure? Is it possible to "believe" in a 'Jesus' for salvation, who hates babies and creates them to be damned, for his own pleasure? And you have the gall and arrogance, to claim that you've been 'chosen' above that baby and you have the impudence and audacity to rejoice about that!!!! Anybody with a 'right' mind would be sorrowing.

Right or wrong, an 'Arminian' Jesus 'beats that all hollow'!!!!
Lol, I think you are befuddled.
 
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