What is forgiveness?

glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
patrick jane said:
Well, do you hold grudges and harbor bitterness ? Have you failed to forgive someone in your life ?
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PJ is one who thinks because he holds grudges and harbors bitterness...others do.

He is the King of Projection.

The reader should bear that in mind when reading his posts. :carryon:
 
Spockrates

Spockrates

New member
Glorydaz: Acknowledged. I can't love without God's help. Also these words of Christ come to mind:

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

(John 13:34)

Since forgiveness is love, as you said, then are you and I supposed to forgive others the way Christ forgives us?
 
Spockrates

Spockrates

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Patrick: I suppose once I figure out what forgiveness is, then I shall better be able to answer your question. Are you saying forgiveness is simply not holding a grudge?
 
Spockrates

Spockrates

New member
BTW, I really appreciate you both for helping me to figure out what forgiveness is, as it seems forgiving is obligatory for us Christians.
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
heir said:
You need to go on Biggest Loser as your religion has a big ole "but".

There is no prerequisite to our forgiveness. It's a done deal and that 2000 years before we were even born.
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you are misreading the passage that you quoted

chrysostom said:
redemption only through His blood
but
forgiveness through His grace as we repent, as we forgive
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heir said:
We have both

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
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PureX

PureX

Well-known member
Spockrates said:
Yes, I think I've got it. Forgiveness is increasing self respect in both the one forgiven and the forgiving. Would you say, then that the greater the self respect produced the greater the forgiveness must be?
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I'm not sure forgiveness comes in degrees. I think for the most part, we forgive or we don't. And it's not just about self-respect, I think it's also about autonomy.

When we hold onto resentments against other people, those other people 'own us', in a way. (This is true of the offender as well and the offended, though for the offender it's guilt that holds them, rather than resentment.) They own our mental and emotional energy so long as we retain that resentment. But when we forgive them, we let go of that resentment, and in so doing we get our mental and emotional energy back, to apply as we please (hopefully to more positive pursuits). So it's not just about regaining our self-respect, it's also about regaining our autonomy, and self-determination. And hopefully, increasing our ability to give to others.
 
theophilus

theophilus

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Spockrates said:
Surrendersacrifice: Well said! But something Paul said makes me wonder: "...just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you." (Colossians 3:13). Do you think what he claims is true? Is forgiving others the same way God forgives us something you and I should try to do?
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It's something I ask Him to give me the ability to do.

And He does.
 
Spockrates

Spockrates

New member
What is forgiveness?

PureX said:
I'm not sure forgiveness comes in degrees. I think for the most part, we forgive or we don't. And it's not just about self-respect, I think it's also about autonomy.

When we hold onto resentments against other people, those other people 'own us', in a way. (This is true of the offender as well and the offended, though for the offender it's guilt that holds them, rather than resentment.) They own our mental and emotional energy so long as we retain that resentment. But when we forgive them, we let go of that resentment, and in so doing we get our mental and emotional energy back, to apply as we please (hopefully to more positive pursuits). So it's not just about regaining our self-respect, it's also about regaining our autonomy, and self-determination. And hopefully, increasing our ability to give to others.
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Forgive me for being unclear in my query. But it seems my question remains unanswered. For I'm wondering what forgiveness really is. You, my new friend answer by saying what forgiveness does.

Let me attempt to explain by way of example: Suppose I were to ask you, "What is clay?" and you were to answer, "There is the clay of pottery, and the clay of bricks, and the clay of floor tiles..." You wouldn't have given me the answer I seek. But if you were to say, "Clay is moistened earth," now that would be the answer to my question! For you would tell me what all these uses of clay have in common as their one true nature.

So when I ask what forgiveness is, you seem to be doing the same. You say there is the forgiveness that gives one self-respect, the forgiveness that removes resentment, the forgiveness that gives one autonomy, the forgiveness that enables us to give. You are telling me what forgiveness does. I want to know what forgiveness is--what the one thing is, which all these effects of forgiving have in common as their one true nature.

Please, then try again to answer my question: What is forgiveness?
 
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Spockrates

Spockrates

New member
chrysostom said:
just google it

forgiveness
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Hi, Chrysostom. It seems the definitions found at the link you provided contradict one another. Is there one you prefer? If it will be helpful, I'm wondering what the word forgive means in this passage of scripture:

"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

(Matthew 6:15)

It's a serious inquiry. For Christ appears to say you and I won't be forgiven by God if we fail to forgive. So I believe it's imperative I understand what the word forgive means in this context. Please tell me: What do you think it means?
 
PureX

PureX

Well-known member
Spockrates said:
Forgive me for being unclear in my query. But it seems my question remains unanswered. For I'm wondering what forgiveness really is. You, my new friend answer by saying what forgiveness does.

Let me attempt to explain by way of example: Suppose I were to ask you, "What is clay?" and you were to answer, "There is the clay of pottery, and the clay of bricks, and the clay of floor tiles..." You wouldn't have given me the answer I seek. But if you were to say, "Clay is moistened earth," now that would be the answer to my question! For you would tell me what all these uses of clay have in common as their one true nature.

So when I ask what forgiveness is, you seem to be doing the same. You say there is the forgiveness that gives one self-respect, the forgiveness that removes resentment, the forgiveness that increases autonomy. You are telling me what forgiveness does. I want to know what forgiveness is--what the one thing is, which all these effects of forgiving have in common as their one true nature.

Please, then try again to answer my question: What is forgiveness?
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Forgiveness is 'letting go'. It's letting go of the hurt, anger, and resentment that we become infected with when people or circumstances abuse our trust in God, life, existence, and ourselves. I focussed on the results because forgiveness is an action, taken presumably, for the result.
 
Spockrates

Spockrates

New member
What is forgiveness?

theophilus said:
Forgiveness is Love...



1 Cor. 13
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Thanks. Now forgive my persistence, but please be more specific. I think we're getting close, but not quite there. You see, I can love God, without needing to forgive him. So please say what kind of love forgiveness is.
 
Spockrates

Spockrates

New member
What is forgiveness?

PureX said:
Forgiveness is 'letting go'. It's letting go of the hurt, anger, and resentment that we become infected with when people or circumstances abuse our trust in God, life, existence, and ourselves. I focussed on the results because forgiveness is an action, taken presumably, for the result.
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Excellent! Yes that is the answer I seek. But let me be sure I understand you.

I tend to make a distinction between thoughts and actions. For example, I might feel compassion when I see someone suffering. But if I don't say or do something to relieve the suffering, I'd conclude that I have not acted on my feelings.

So forgive me for asking more questions. But are you saying there are two different kinds of forgiveness--one that is an emotion and one that is an action?
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Banned
Spockrates said:
Hi, Chrysostom. It seems the definitions found at the link you provided contradict one another. Is there one you prefer? If it will be helpful, I'm wondering what the word forgive means in this passage of scripture:

"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

(Matthew 6:15)

It's a serious inquiry. For Christ appears to say you and I won't be forgiven by God if we fail to forgive. So I believe it's imperative I understand what the word forgive means in this context. Please tell me: What do you think it means?
Click to expand...

Absolutely, it is not holding on to bitter feelings and remembering a transgression. You remember no more and forgive
 
theophilus

theophilus

Well-known member
Spockrates said:
Thanks. Now forgive my persistence, but please be more specific. I think we're getting close, but not quite there. You see, I can love God, without needing to forgive him. So please say what kind of love forgiveness is.
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Uh...why would you need to forgive God?

Forgiveness is setting my own wants/needs/perceptions/perceived wrongs/hurts/vengeances/ad infinitum aside and loving my neighbor as myself.

All that I believe to be to me as "wronged" needs to be put behind as I forsake all to follow Jesus Christ.

My favorite quote, "Forgiveness is the poison I swallow hoping someone else will die."
 
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