ECT WHAT EPH 3:5 IS SAYING TO ALL !

[DAN P]

I believe the BOC started when Jesus offered himself for us after being raised from the dead. Before Jesus ascended he tells the apostles his has been given all authority.
Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.


Paul tells us we are bought by Jesus' blood.
Acts 20:28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
1 Cor. 6:20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Paul tells us WHEN Jesus was given RULE and authority over all things including the church when he was raised which coincides with what Jesus said in Matt. 28.
Eph. 1:20 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Hi and I will say to you , you are NOT aDispensationalist !!

Then how were you saved ?/

Can you prove how Paul was saved ??

If he was saved in Acts 9:6 , explain how he was saved ??

I place you in thr ACTS 2 camp !!

SORRY as there were no christians in Matthew NOR in the Gospels until Paul wrote about the BODY !!

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and I will say to you , you are NOT aDispensationalist !!

Then how were you saved ?/

Can you prove how Paul was saved ??

If he was saved in Acts 9:6 , explain how he was saved ??

I place you in thr ACTS 2 camp !!

SORRY as mthere were no christians in Matthew NOR in the Gospels until Paul wrote about the BODY !!

dan p

Let me see if I understand what you're saying.
You believe that Jesus suffering, dying, shedding his blood, offering it for our sins, being raised the 3rd day and given all rule and authority didn't establish HIS body?

Doesn't it take blood to establish a covenant between God and man? Is grace based upon Christ or Paul? What did Paul do to establish the Body? Isn't he just a messenger? As he said:
13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

 

[DAN P]

Let me see if I understand what you're saying.
You believe that Jesus suffering, dying, shedding his blood, offering it for our sins, being raised the 3rd day and given all rule and authority didn't establish HIS body?

Doesn't it take blood to establish a covenant between God and man? Is grace based upon Christ or Paul? What did Paul do to establish the Body? Isn't he just a messenger? As he said:
13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Hi and in Gal 1:11-12 , Paul was given by Revelation of Jesus Christ !!

In Col 1:25 , Paul became a servant according to the DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA of God and verse 26 says that this messages had been kept secret from the AGES and from the generations !!

Jesus and Peter did not teach or preach this message at all !!

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and in Gal 1:11-12 , Paul was given by Revelation of Jesus Christ !!

Yes, he's just a messenger.

In Col 1:25 , Paul became a servant according to the DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA of God and verse 26 says that this messages had been kept secret from the AGES and from the generations !!

Jesus and Peter did not teach or preach this message at all !!

dan p

You're confused as to WHAT the "mystery" really is. The mystery that had been hidden is that the Gentiles are now (through Christ)God's people too along with the Jews. Look further at what he says in Col. 1 you quoted.

Col. 1:27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
That's the mystery, the Gentiles are now part of God's people WITH the Jews because Christ is IN THEM.

Paul says that very thing here by giving us his insight into the "mystery"?
Eph. 3:4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:


That's it. That's the mystery. It's not a new covenant or different message. The message is Christ saves everyone. When did that start?

Paul says Christ's blood is what brings the Jew and Gentile into one body, not his message.
Eph. 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
By the cross they are now one body.
Eph. 2:16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross,



Is grace based on Paul's message or the blood of Christ??

 

[Interplanner]

Yes, he's just a messenger.



You're confused as to WHAT the "mystery" really is. The mystery that had been hidden is that the Gentiles are now (through Christ)God's people too along with the Jews. Look further at what he says in Col. 1 you quoted.

Col. 1:27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
That's the mystery, the Gentiles are now part of God's people WITH the Jews because Christ is IN THEM.

Paul says that very thing here by giving us his insight into the "mystery"?
Eph. 3:4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:


That's it. That's the mystery. It's not a new covenant or different message. The message is Christ saves everyone. When did that start?

Paul says Christ's blood is what brings the Jew and Gentile into one body, not his message.
Eph. 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
By the cross they are now one body.
Eph. 2:16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross,



Is grace based on Paul's message or the blood of Christ??

Sorry, Turbo, that's not quite where the grammar goes there in Eph 3:5-6. The idea is this: the Gentiles who believe share in everything that was promised Israel, but do not do so through the Law/Judaism. Instead it is through the Gospel.

This was not hidden since creation, however, it was hidden since Judaism started because of its 'trainer' purpose, as a pedagogy. Things had to be tangible, but the tangible stood for what would come in Christ. Christ is the reality, as Hebrews elaborates, while Col 2 says briefly. I don't think God WANTED to hide it so much as the Law simply hides things because it is merely a copy of the heavenly.

 

[turbosixx]

Please point out were I said through the law. That DEFINATELY wasn't my intention.

I underlined through the gospel.

 

[Interplanner]

OK, but I don't see where it really got on to that contrast. In other words, right where Judaism would be saying that the co-s are through the observance of Judaism, Paul says a person merely needs the Gospel.

 

[turbosixx]

OK, but I don't see where it really got on to that contrast. In other words, right where Judaism would be saying that the co-s are through the observance of Judaism, Paul says a person merely needs the Gospel.

Judaism accomplishes nothing.

 

[Danoh]

Judaism accomplishes nothing.

On the contrary - God accomplished MUCH through MESSIANIC Judaism (Believing Remnant of Israel) throughout the OT and into the Book of Acts prior to Unbelieving Israel's fall.

What was MESSIANIC Judaism, in contrast to UNMessianic Judaism?

MESSIANIC Judaism...

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

UNMessianic Judaism...

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

 

[turbosixx]

On the contrary - God accomplished MUCH through MESSIANIC Judaism (Believing Remnant of Israel) throughout the OT and into the Book of Acts prior to Unbelieving Israel's fall.

What was MESSIANIC Judaism, in contrast to UNMessianic Judaism?

MESSIANIC Judaism...

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

UNMessianic Judaism...

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Good point. I obviously didn't have much detail in that statement My point was, no one can be saved by Judaism.

 

[Interplanner]

Good point. I obviously didn't have much detail in that statement My point was, no one can be saved by Judaism.

Messianic = Christian. Once a thing is named Christian, that is a complete title. The Judaism part no longer matters, by definition. There are Christians from all ethnes, but there is never a Judaistic Christianity with its own gospel or other doctrines or programs.

As far as I know Danoh will always try to validate 2P2P but cannot.

There is further confusion in the MAD way of structuring the fall of Israel. They are trying to validate the ethne. That is not the idea of the Bible, because, as anyone can see the initial several thousand believers were Jews. The NT idea is that there is a new Israel of both Jew and Gentile, by faith. This group or to pun "nation" (Mt 21) "does the work of the vineyard."

Once again the 2P2P conception of things is entirely foreign to the NT and goes to entirely mistaken ends.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Messianic = Christian. Once a thing is named Christian, that is a complete title. The Judaism part no longer matters, by definition. There are Christians from all ethnes, but there is never a Judaistic Christianity with its own gospel or other doctrines or programs.

As far as I know Danoh will always try to validate 2P2P but cannot.

There is further confusion in the MAD way of structuring the fall of Israel. They are trying to validate the ethne. That is not the idea of the Bible, because, as anyone can see the initial several thousand believers were Jews. The NT idea is that there is a new Israel of both Jew and Gentile, by faith. This group or to pun "nation" (Mt 21) "does the work of the vineyard."

Once again the 2P2P conception of things is entirely foreign to the NT and goes to entirely mistaken ends.

:chuckle:

 

[DAN P]

Yes, he's just a messenger.



You're confused as to WHAT the "mystery" really is. The mystery that had been hidden is that the Gentiles are now (through Christ)God's people too along with the Jews. Look further at what he says in Col. 1 you quoted.

Hi and I am confused , I do not think so , and here is the mystery /secret !!

#1 , Eph 1:9 , Having made known unto yo us THE MYSTERY OF HIS WILL

#2 , Eph 3:3 , He has made known unto me THE MYSTERY

#3 , Eph 3:4 , Ye may understand my knowledge in THE MYSTERY of CHRIST

#4, Eph 6:9 , To make known THE MYSTERY of thr GOSPEL

#5 Col 4:3 To speak THE MYSTERY of Christ , for which I am also in boinds

#6, 1 Tim 3:9 Holding THE MYSTERY of the faith in a pure conscience

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and I am confused , I do not think so , and here is the mystery /secret !!

#1 , Eph 1:9 , Having made known unto yo us THE MYSTERY OF HIS WILL

#2 , Eph 3:3 , He has made known unto me THE MYSTERY

#3 , Eph 3:4 , Ye may understand my knowledge in THE MYSTERY of CHRIST

#4, Eph 6:9 , To make known THE MYSTERY of thr GOSPEL

#5 Col 4:3 To speak THE MYSTERY of Christ , for which I am also in boinds

#6, 1 Tim 3:9 Holding THE MYSTERY of the faith in a pure conscience

dan p

I’m not suggesting you’re unaware there was mystery. The 6 single verses you quoted here clearly state there was a mystery kept hidden but you skipped the ones that actually reveal the mystery. In continuing to do so, the mystery could be made to be anything you want it to be. I choose to understand the truth about the mystery by looking at the context and hope that you will as well.

Looking at the context of Ephesians, Paul reveals to us the mystery.
3:4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,


Keeping the context we can look at the previous chapter to see what makes them fellow heirs.
2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.


Paul revealed that the Gentiles are now God's people too along with the Jews through Christ's blood.

 

[DAN P]

I’m not suggesting you’re unaware there was mystery. The 6 single verses you quoted here clearly state there was a mystery kept hidden but you skipped the ones that actually reveal the mystery. In continuing to do so, the mystery could be made to be anything you want it to be. I choose to understand the truth about the mystery by looking at the context and hope that you will as well.

Looking at the context of Ephesians, Paul reveals to us the mystery.
3:4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,


Keeping the context we can look at the previous chapter to see what makes them fellow heirs.
2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.


Paul revealed that the Gentiles are now God's people too along with the Jews through Christ's blood.

Hi , and how will you handle 2 Cor 3:16 , in the light of what you wrote in Eph 2:15 ??

Because Israel has been set aside as Luke 13:6-9 and 2 Cor 3:14 ?

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi , and how will you handle 2 Cor 3:16 , in the light of what you wrote in Eph 2:15 ??

Because Israel has been set aside as Luke 13:6-9 and 2 Cor 3:14 ?

dan p

Yes, not all Israelites believed. Did all Gentiles believe when they heard Paul's message?

Not ALL Israelites hearts were hard.
Acts 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

How were these Israelites saved, by the law of Moses or the blood of Christ?

 

[DAN P]

Yes, not all Israelites believed. Did all Gentiles believe when they heard Paul's message?

Not ALL Israelites hearts were hard.
Acts 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

How were these Israelites saved, by the law of Moses or the blood of Christ?

Hi and Acts 2:47 is a proof text for me , because the Greek word ADDED is in the Greek IMPERFECT TENSE and it means that God added and THEN STOPPED ADDONG , WHY ?

Because Israel was to be set aside , THAT'S WHY !!

Undeniable !!

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and Acts 2:47 is a proof text for me , because the Greek word ADDED is in the Greek IMPERFECT TENSE and it means that God added and THEN STOPPED ADDONG , WHY ?

Because Israel was to be set aside , THAT'S WHY !!

Undeniable !!

dan p

You didn't answer the question. How were these people saved? By the blood of Christ, law of Moses, Paul's message or by something different?

Could you please provide proof he stopped adding and when he stopped.
Here on Paul's second journey he's still adding Jews.
Acts 18:8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.

 

[DAN P]

You didn't answer the question. How were these people saved? By the blood of Christ, law of Moses, Paul's message or by something different?


You will have to provide proof he stopped adding and when he stopped.
Here on Paul's second journey he's still adding Jews.
Acts 18:8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.

Hi and I just gave proof , because the Greek word ADDED is in the Greek IMPERFECT TENSE and that means Jesus was ADDING and then STOP ADDING for over 2000 years , got it NOW ??

If you will not tell me how you were saved today , THEN I will tell you how Peter was saved and those in the OT were saved !!

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and I just gave proof , because the Greek word ADDED is in the Greek IMPERFECT TENSE and that means Jesus was ADDING and then STOP ADDING for over 2000 years , got it NOW ??

You have given no such proof. In that verse God is adding "day by day". The imperfect indicative represents an action as going on in past time, as ἔλῡον, I was loosing or I loosed.
God added "each" day.

If God stopped adding at that verse, then why were these Jews added in Ch. 5?
Acts 5:14 And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women,
They were added to the Lord. What does that mean to you?

If you will not tell me how you were saved today , THEN I will tell you how Peter was saved and those in the OT were saved !!

dan p

The people in the OT that were saved and Peter were saved by the blood of Christ.