ECT What does 1 Tim. 2:12-14 really mean to us?

vfirestormv

New member
1 Timothy 2:12-14 (KJV)
(12) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(13) For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
(14) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

So do you think this was just for this Church that may have been having problems with women that were unlearned teaching? Or do you feel this is universal for the Churches?

Do you feel this also goes for women teaching men in Sunday School, or Bible study?

What are your thoughts?
 

Cross Reference

New member
1 Timothy 2:12-14 (KJV)
(12) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(13) For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
(14) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

So do you think this was just for this Church that may have been having problems with women that were unlearned teaching? Or do you feel this is universal for the Churches?

Do you feel this also goes for women teaching men in Sunday School, or Bible study?

What are your thoughts?


What is the point in asking except to start a "majoring on minors" issue that, because of their unbelief, the Calvinist can only perform? My thoughts? __ forget it.
 

DAN P

New member
What is the point in asking except to start a "majoring on minors" issue that, because of their unbelief, the Calvinist can only perform? My thoughts? __ forget it.


Hi , and this is a problem every where , don't you see !

#1 , Since it is in the Present Tense ( 4 verbs )

#2 , This speaks to EKKLESIA of today .

#3 , Even Judaism has Women Rabbi , when Priests can ONLY come from the tribe of Levi , so the Excludes the RCC .

#4 , The other problem is Deacons !

dan p
 

Jedidiah

New member
1 Timothy 2:12-14 (KJV)
(12) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(13) For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
(14) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

So do you think this was just for this Church that may have been having problems with women that were unlearned teaching? Or do you feel this is universal for the Churches?
Universal.
Do you feel this also goes for women teaching men in Sunday School, or Bible study?
I don't know that it must be so rigidly interpreted as that, and I do think that it goes for official pastors of New Testament church communities, like Timothy's in Ephesus.
What are your thoughts?
I'm not glad nor sad about it, it's just what it says.
 

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
1 Timothy 2:12-14 (KJV)
(12) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence...?

That means--woman, make me a sammich!


"1 Ti 2:12 I do not permit. The Gr. word for “permit” is used in the NT to refer to allowing someone to do what he desires. Paul may have been addressing a real situation in which several women in Ephesus desired to be public preachers. to teach. Paul used a verbal form of this Gr. word that indicates a condition or process and is better translated: “to be a teacher.” This was an important, official function in the church (see Acts 13:1; 1 Cor. 12:28; Eph. 4:11). Thus Paul is forbidding women from filling the office and role of the pastor or teacher. He is not prohibiting them from teaching in other appropriate conditions and circumstances (cf. Acts 18:26; Titus 2:3, 4). to have authority over. Paul forbids women from exercising any type of authority over men in the church assembly, since the elders are those who rule (5:17). They are all to be men (as is clear from the requirements in 3:2, 5). in silence. See note on v. 11.

2:13, 14 A woman’s subordinate role did not result after the Fall as a cultural, chauvinistic corruption of God’s perfect design; rather, God established her role as part of His original creation (v. 13). God made woman after man to be his suitable helper (see note on Gen. 2:18; cf. 1 Cor. 11:8, 9). The Fall actually corroborates God’s divine plan of creation (see notes on Gen. 3:1–7). By nature Eve was not suited to assume the position of ultimate responsibility. By leaving Adam’s protection and usurping his headship, she was vulnerable and fell, thus confirming how important it was for her to stay under the protection and leadership of her husband (see notes on 5:11, 12; 2 Tim. 3:6, 7). Adam then violated his leadership role, followed Eve in her sin, and plunged the human race into sinfulness—all connected with violating God’s planned roles for the sexes. Ultimately, the responsibility for the Fall still rests with Adam, since he chose to disobey God apart from being deceived (Rom. 5:12–21; 1 Cor. 15:21, 22)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., pp. 1863–1864). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

Make me a sandwich!
 
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serpentdove

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Banned
What is the point in asking except to start a "majoring on minors" issue that, because of their unbelief, the Calvinist can only perform? My thoughts? __ forget it.

The long toothed lesbians (Giles) like to use this verse to argue that the bible is anti-woman.




Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence [1 Tim. 2:11–12].

"These verses have to do with the learning and teaching of doctrine. Keep in mind that the women led in the mystery religions of Paul’s day, and they were sex orgies. Paul is cautioning women not to sepak publicly with the idea of making an appeal on the basis of sex. Paul strictly forbade women to speak in tongues in 1 Corinthians 14:34." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (1 and 2 Timothy/Titus/Philemon) (electronic ed., Vol. 50, p. 45). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
 

Jedidiah

New member
The long toothed lesbians (Giles) like to use this verse to argue that the bible is anti-woman.
Are they members of the Body of Christ ? If not, who cares ? And if so, see 1 Timothy 2:12-14.

There are no other limits or restrictions on women in the Body of Christ by-the-by.
 

vfirestormv

New member
The reason I ask the question is at my local church, which seems pretty solid in most doctrines that I hold to. But they have a female Sunday school teacher that teaches the men as well. She does an OK job but I am not sure how I feel about it. I feel it is wrong somehow, but wasn't sure if I was just reading too much into the verses. I know that a woman should not be a pastor but was not totally sure about this situation. I know if it were up to me the church would lean toward the right side of conservative just to be safe.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28)​

Some people are racist, some people are sexist, some people are both.
 

vfirestormv

New member
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28)​

Some people are racist, some people are sexist, some people are both.

I am none of these. What is the text saying then?
 

matt86

New member
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28)​

Some people are racist, some people are sexist, some people are both.

I don't think it has anything to do with being racist or sexist. Paul says that women should not hold positions over men in leadership in faith and in the church. I think they're fine teaching other women and/or children, but it explicitly says they should not be over the spirituality of men. I think it's pretty clear that men should lead the household and be the spiritual leaders over their wives and children.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
1 Timothy 2:12-14 (KJV)
(12) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(13) For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
(14) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

So do you think this was just for this Church that may have been having problems with women that were unlearned teaching? Or do you feel this is universal for the Churches?

Do you feel this also goes for women teaching men in Sunday School, or Bible study?

What are your thoughts?

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Wives are to be in subjection to their husbands.

That does not mean that women are absolutely not to teach, but in doing so be in subjection to the husbands

The context is husband and wife, Adam and Eve, childbearing.

The man is the be the spiritual leader, with the wife as the equal partner.

A wise husband will make full use of the wife's wisdom and knowledge of God's word so that as full a perspective for any decision... can be had
 

DAN P

New member
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28)​

Some people are racist, some people are sexist, some people are both.

Hi , and are you saying that Jesus was a RACIST in Matt 10:5 and 6 when He told His disciple to ONLY go to the House of Israel , but DON'T go to the Gentiles or the Samaritians ??::bang::bang:

dan p
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
The long toothed lesbians (Giles) like to use this verse to argue that the bible is anti-woman.




Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence [1 Tim. 2:11–12].

"These verses have to do with the learning and teaching of doctrine. Keep in mind that the women led in the mystery religions of Paul’s day, and they were sex orgies. Paul is cautioning women not to sepak publicly with the idea of making an appeal on the basis of sex. Paul strictly forbade women to speak in tongues in 1 Corinthians 14:34." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (1 and 2 Timothy/Titus/Philemon) (electronic ed., Vol. 50, p. 45). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

McGee might have something with the first half of his observation.

But the speaking in tongues part. No so much. The context is the wives of the prophets
 

Livelystone

New member
Some folks need to start being honest with themselves...... if this is possible here on TOL ???

A simple hypothetical question should separate the sheep from the goats

#1 John Smith Pastor means well and believes that Jesus as the Son of God died for our sins and was resurrected unto the right hand of the Father....... Everything else he thinks about the Bible from Genesis to Revelation is wrong and is the opposite of the truth of God's Holy Word.

#2 MarySue moves into town who too "believes Jesus as the Son of God died for our sins and was resurrected unto the right hand of the Father". However, the rest of her knowledge of the Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation including the necessary knowledge of the foundational doctrines as listed in Hebrews 6:1-2 KJV is the absolute truth, and everything she would teach you and the rest of the church would be no different from what either Jesus or any of the Apostles would teach you should they appear today in your church to teach you the truth about God and His plan for the Church, mankind, and for you.

I am not going to ask who you would rather hear teach on Sunday, (I would be afraid to hear the answers) however, instead who do you think God would rather teach the Bible and the mysteries of Godliness to you on Sunday?

Would God approve of the above man who is clueless about most of the Bible, or would God approve of the woman teaching you who knows all of the absolute God approved truths about all of the Bible?

Anyone who does not chose the woman has not only missed the message of Paul and why he sees a difference between the "male and the female", they will remain clueless about the mysteries of Godliness
 

God's Truth

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Banned
If there is a man available who is able to teach another man the truth, then let the man teach the man. If there is no man to teach the man, then the woman should teach the man.
 

Jedidiah

New member
If there is a man available who is able to teach another man the truth, then let the man teach the man. If there is no man to teach the man, then the woman should teach the man.
Pastor is an official position. I don't believe a Lord's Day school teacher is even pretending to be a pastor. :idunno:
 
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Livelystone

New member
Pastor is an official position. I don't believe a Lord's Day school teacher is even pretending to be a pastor. :idunno:

Lets not avoid the plain and simple truth

Should a woman who knows more of the truth teach the man who some think should be the pastor according to 1Tim 2:12-14 KJV, or should she "be silent" in the church, and allow the man to teach the congregation even though she knows what he teaches is nothing more than false doctrines that are not approved of by God. (BTW, all false doctrines come from Satan, including the traditions of men no matter how much they are already accepted in the church)
 

Jedidiah

New member
A hypothetical is never the plain and simple truth. Is this happening to you right now? or to somebody you know ?
Lets not avoid the plain and simple truth

Should a woman who knows more of the truth teach the man who some think should be the pastor according to 1Tim 2:12-14 KJV, or should she "be silent" in the church, and allow the man to teach the congregation even though she knows what he teaches is nothing more than false doctrines that are not approved of by God....
I think 1 Peter 3:1 applies, what do you think ?
... (BTW, all false doctrines come from Satan, including the traditions of men no matter how much they are already accepted in the church)
I agree completely with you.
 
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