ECT Water baptism commanded for the BoC?

[Gurucam]

Oh goody, another moving target. Actually it was 1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV
We're not talking parables when we are talking about what Paul preached. Paul was not given the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. We know this because Paul could not have been forgiven under the kingdom gospel!

He was a blasphemer against the Holy Ghost and could not have even been forgiven under it!

I do not wish to be difficult. However I must confess that I can hardly move on with understanding, even from your first paragraph.

A far as the KJV N.T. goes, No one can be or is forgiven for blaspheming the Holy Ghost. And neither Jesus nor God are lairs.

Therefore when you say "He (referring to Paul) was a blasphemer against the Holy Ghost . . . . "

You must be mistaken or not telling the truth. Or just simply bearing false witness on and blaspheming Paul.

I must ask: Is there a revelation in the KJV N.T. to literally support your claim that Paul was a blasphemer against the Holy Ghost . . . .

I wait, with bated breadth and anxiety, for your response.

It is clear that Paul sin and blaspheme other manner of things but not the Holy Ghost.

Paul's biggest transgression is mentioned in Galatians: 1 verse: 13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

Clearly persecution of the 'church of God' cannot be blasphemy of the Holy Ghost for Jesus gave Paul a ministry. That church of God was not founded on the Holy Ghost, it was not a Spirit or spirit based church. It was a church rooted in 'dead things' (like parables) for the dead.

Matthew 12:31 KJV Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Matthew 12:32 KJV And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Now, either Jesus lied or God was going to do something different when he reached down to save Paul (then Saul). I am not prepared to call God a liar (Titus 1:2 KJV). God was indeed going to do something different trhough Paul!

In Paul (then Saul) FIRST, Jesus Christ would shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them that should thereafter believe on Him to everlasting life:

1 Timothy 1:12-16 KJV And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

The world was ripe for God's judgment and at the stoning of Stephen, rather than judgment coming (the wrath to come), God saved the chief of sinners (Acts 9, 1 Timothy 1:13-16 KJV), His biggest enemy (Galatians 1:11-16 KJV), and through His apostleship/his "office" (Romans 11:13 KJV, 1 Timothy 2:7 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:11 KJV) by the unscheduled appearance(s)/revelations from the risen, glorified Lord Jesus Christ to and through him~God began a mystery body, time, gospel and eternal destination; an inheritance far above all heavens!

 

[heir]

I do not wish to be difficult. However I must confess that I can hardly move on with understanding, from even from your first paragraph.

A far as the KJV N.T. goes, No one can be or is forgiven for blaspheming the Holy Ghost. And neither Jesus nor God are lairs.

Therefore when you say "He (referring to Paul) was a blasphemer against the Holy Ghost . . . . "
You must be mistaken or not telling the truth. Is there a revelation in the KJV N.T. to literally support you claim that Paul was a blasphemer against the Holy Ghost . . . .

Matthew 12:32 KJV And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

So here we have Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 6:5 KJV And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

Saul consenting unto his death:

Acts 8:1 KJV And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

breathing out threatenings and slaughter

Acts 9:1 KJV And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

Acts 22:20 KJV And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.

Saul, was definitely a blasphemer against the Holy Ghost!

So then, because we know that God is NOT a liar, God must have been doing something different and that is exactly what we see. In Paul first...

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

God saved the chief of sinners (Acts 9, 1 Timothy 1:13-16 KJV), His biggest enemy (Galatians 1:11-16 KJV), and through His apostleship/his "office" (Romans 11:13 KJV, 1 Timothy 2:7 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:11 KJV) by the unscheduled appearance(s)/revelations from the risen, glorified Lord Jesus Christ to and through him~God began a mystery body, time, gospel and eternal destination; an inheritance far above all heavens!

 

[Gurucam]

Matthew 12:32 KJV And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

So here we have Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 6:5 KJV And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

Saul consenting unto his death:

Acts 8:1 KJV And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

breathing out threatenings and slaughter

Acts 9:1 KJV And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

Acts 22:20 KJV And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.

Saul, was definitely a blasphemer against the Holy Ghost!

So then, because we know that God is NOT a liar, God must have been doing something different and that is exactly what we see. In Paul first...

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

God saved the chief of sinners (Acts 9, 1 Timothy 1:13-16 KJV), His biggest enemy (Galatians 1:11-16 KJV), and through His apostleship/his "office" (Romans 11:13 KJV, 1 Timothy 2:7 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:11 KJV) by the unscheduled appearance(s)/revelations from the risen, glorified Lord Jesus Christ to and through him~God began a mystery body, time, gospel and eternal destination; an inheritance far above all heavens!

In none of those events did Paul blaspheme the Holy Ghost. The blasphemy of Peter's church is not blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. Also blasphemy of the disciples is not blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

Even blasphemy of Jesus, who was filled of the Holy Ghost is not blasphemy of the Holy Ghost (Remember, And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.)

I must ask again, which revelation confirmed that Paul blaspheme the Holy Ghost?

Blaspheming a church or one who is filled with the Holy Ghost is not blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

Our human capacity to blaspheme the Holy Ghost is very limited. The Holy Ghost is present on earth in only the very fabric of precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to know, pray for, say and do as discerned within one's own heart or spirit.

Humans can blaspheme the Holy Ghost in only the following two way:.

1.) the denial of this fact that the Holy Ghost is present on earth in only the very fabric of precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to know, pray for, say and do as discerned within one's own heart or spirit. and

2.) denial of a person his right to be led into his works by only and precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for him to know, pray for, say and do as discerned within his own heart or spirit.

 

[heir]

In none of those events did Paul blaspheme the Holy Ghost. The blasphemy of Peter's church is not blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. Also blasphemy of the disciples is not blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

Even blasphemy of Jesus, who was filled of the Holy Ghost is not blasphemy of the Holy Ghost (Remember, And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.)

I must ask again, which revelation confirmed that Paul blaspheme the Holy Ghost?

Blaspheming a church or one who is filled with the Holy Ghost is not blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

Paul spoke against those filled with the Holy Ghost. That alone is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost!

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Acts 9:1 KJV And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

 

[Gurucam]

Paul spoke against those filled with the Holy Ghost. That alone is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost!

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Acts 9:1 KJV And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

Wasn't Jesus filled with the Holy Ghost. Yet blasphemy of Jesus is not blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, for blasphemy of Jesus is forgivable.

(Remember and you quoted it: And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.)

Speaking against those filled with the Holy Ghost is not blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. Being filled with the Holy Ghost does not make one equal to the Holy Ghost. Nor does that make one the Holy Ghost. Nor does that mean that if if you blaspheme such a one you blaspheme the Holy Ghost.

One cannot be equal to the Holy Ghost. So that if you blaspheme one, you blaspheme the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is Spirit. Humans are flesh and blood.

Bottom line you err gravely: I must confirm to you that no man or church can be equal to the Holy Ghost and so qualify for the privileges that are reserved for only the Holy Ghost.

Humans can, at best, be equal to the flesh and blood Jesus. And one can blaspheme either one and be forgiven.

I am sorry to tell you that you are unwittingly blaspheming the Holy Ghost.

 

[PhilipJames]

Hello heir,

I do not know who you have been listening to, but these are nothing like what St. Paul (whom you claim to follow) taught.

You seem to be confused as to who was/is baptized into one Body. No one before Paul is in the one Body. Paul was the first (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV).

1Tim 15-16

This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am the foremost.

But for that reason I was mercifully treated, so that in me, as the foremost, Christ Jesus might display all his patience as an example for those who would come to believe in him for everlasting life.

Paul is identifying himself as the greatest of sinners to whom (and through whom) GOD showed HIS great patience and mercy. This says nothing about who was 'first' in the Body.

Further (as you pointed out below), it was Ananias who baptized Paul clearly showing that Paul was not the first in the Body..

Also Rom 16:7
Greet Andronicus and Junia, my relatives and my fellow prisoners; they are prominent among the apostles and they were in Christ before me.

Seems Paul doesn't think so either...

And only those to whom Paul was sent are in the Body and Paul was first sent to the Jew first and also to the Greek (Acts 26:17 KJV, Romans 1:16 KJV, 1 Corinthians 1:24 KJV).

This is nothing like Paul taught, Paul repeatedly speaks to the unity of the Body throughout his letters, often referring to the other apostles working together with him. Perhaps you should start at Romans 1:1 and reread ALL his letters.

You seem to be confused. We are not a holy nation, a royal priesthood nor "the Bride". The Body is masculine, "His body"!

It is Paul himself that disagrees with you:

Eph 5:29-32

For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church,

because we are members of his body.

"For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."

This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church.

And we are not grafted in to anything!

Again, it is Paul that you arguing with..

Rom 11: 13-24 which begins thus: Now I am speaking to you Gentiles...

If we, as gentiles, have not been grafted in to the people of GOD, then we remain the wild olive and have no part in the Kingdom of GOD.

Paul didn't write one gospel, now did he, because there is no such thing as "one gospel" in the Bible! there's a lot of different good new in the Bible, but it's not all the good news of our salvation!

indeed. And the Good News of our salvation is this: that the Messiah, Jesus Christ has come and , by HIS death and resurrection, brought Salvation, not just to the Jews (those who believed, but ALSO to the gentiles (those who believe)

What glorious Good News for ALL men!
Praise to you , Our Lord, Jesus Christ , who lives and reigns with God the Almighty Father forever and ever! AMEN!

When Ananias laid his hands on him.

Indeed! And then they go and baptize Paul with water, completing the rite of Christian Baptism

So, it's good news to you that you can be cut off?

As you saw above, you have that backwards. it's WONDERFUL NEWS that I may be, and have been, grafted in!

That's not true of anyone who is saved in the Body of Christ. We cannot be cut off as we aren't grafted in, but baptized (identified) by one Spirit into one Body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV) and sealed unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30 KJV)!

If we have not been grafted in to the people of GOD, then we remain the wild olive, the Spirit has NOT come to us, and we have no part in the Kingdom of God.

But, Praise GOD we can be grafted in! We need only come to HIM and be united with HIM as members of HIS Bride.

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

'And the Spirit and the Bride say 'Come' (Rev 22:17)

Peace!
PJ

 

[heir]

I am sorry to tell you that you are unwittingly blaspheming the Holy Ghost.

oh

 

[heir]

Hello heir,

I do not know who you have been listening to, but these are nothing like what St. Paul (whom you claim to follow) taught.

It's exactly what the KJB shows.

Paul is identifying himself as the greatest of sinners to whom (and through whom) GOD showed HIS great patience and mercy. This says nothing about who was 'first' in the Body.

Paul is the first, a pattern. That's what it says!

Further (as you pointed out below), it was Ananias who baptized Paul clearly showing that Paul was not the first in the Body..

hahaha

Also Rom 16:7
Greet Andronicus and Junia, my relatives and my fellow prisoners; they are prominent among the apostles and they were in Christ before me.

Seems Paul doesn't think so either...

In Christ is not synonymous with in the Body of Christ.

This is nothing like Paul taught, Paul repeatedly speaks to the unity of the Body throughout his letters, often referring to the other apostles working together with him. Perhaps you should start at Romans 1:1 and reread ALL his letters.

Those who laboured with Paul did so for the edification of the Body of Christ. And I think it is you who needs to start at Romans 1. Tell me why Paul had to preach the gospel of Christ to people who already had "a faith".

It is Paul himself that disagrees with you:

Eph 5:29-32

For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church,

because we are members of his body.

"For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."

That scripture is about relationship not that the church, which is His Body is feminine. You should rethink that.

Again, it is Paul that you arguing with..

Rom 11: 13-24 which begins thus: Now I am speaking to you Gentiles...

Romans 9, 10, and 11 is a microcosm of Israel's past, present (then) and future. It really has nothing to do with us. We can't be cut off. We are saved and sealed.

If we, as gentiles, have not been grafted in to the people of GOD, then we remain the wild olive and have no part in the Kingdom of GOD.

Nope. We were never a part of any tree nor is there a tree today.

indeed. And the Good News of our salvation is this: that the Messiah, Jesus Christ has come and , by HIS death and resurrection, brought Salvation, not just to the Jews (those who believed, but ALSO to the gentiles (those who believe)

What salvation? What is the gospel of your salvation? By whom did you hear what the gospel that will save you is, Peter, James and John? Who?

What glorious Good News for ALL men!
Praise to you , Our Lord, Jesus Christ , who lives and reigns with God the Almighty Father forever and ever! AMEN!

Indeed! And then they go and baptize Paul with water, completing the rite of Christian Baptism

I don't see any water.

As you saw above, you have that backwards. it's WONDERFUL NEWS that I may be, and have been, grafted in!

Not so good news

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


Why do you believe you can be cut off? I thought you said you were saved?

 

[PhilipJames]

hello hier,

Paul is the first, a pattern. That's what it says!

rather it says that Paul is the greatest (or first if you insist) of sinners. It does NOT say he is the first to be redeemed.

In Christ is not synonymous with in the Body of Christ.

How can one be in Christ and not be a member of His Body?

Those who laboured with Paul did so for the edification of the Body of Christ. And I think it is you who needs to start at Romans 1. Tell me why Paul had to preach the gospel of Christ to people who already had "a faith".

I'll let Paul tell you: (Rom 1:8-12) (bolding by me)

First, I give thanks to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world.

God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in proclaiming the gospel of his Son, that I remember you constantly,

For I long to see you, that I may share with you some spiritual gift so that you may be strengthened,

that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by one another's faith, yours and mine.

always asking in my prayers that somehow by God's will I may at last find my way clear to come to you.

That scripture is about relationship not that the church, which is His Body is feminine.

Yes it is about relationship. The relationship between a man and HIS wife, the GROOM and HIS Bride!

Romans 9, 10, and 11 is a microcosm of Israel's past, present (then) and future. It really has nothing to do with us.

Nothing to do with us??? 'Now I am speaking to you Gentiles...'

You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to conclude that Paul is not talking specifically about how the gentiles relate to the Jews and the 'cultivated olive tree'.

We can't be cut off.

Better take that up with Paul. he wrote it.

Nope. We were never a part of any tree nor is there a tree today.

Are you saying you have no root?

Rom 11:17-18 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in their place and have come to share in the rich root of the olive tree,

do not boast against the branches. If you do boast, consider that you do not support the root; the root supports you.

What salvation? What is the gospel of your salvation?

Did you not read it? Perhaps you should go back and look again.

I don't see any water.

'He got up and was baptized,'

As Paul had already received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (through the laying on of hands) what then does this refer to?

Not so good news

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


Why do you believe you can be cut off? I thought you said you were saved?

I have been saved, I am being saved and by God's Grace I will be saved!

Paul says the same.

Peace!
PJ

 

[Gurucam]

oh

You are claiming that blaspheming a human is the same as blaspheming the Holy Ghost.

You are equating the Holy Ghost to a human.

You have ignored, at your own peril, that in the very verse which you quoted, the highest expression of a human on earth (i.e the son of man) is not comparable to the Holy Ghost, And does not enjoy the same status and privileges of the Holy Ghost.

The highest expression of a human on earth was the son of man. The son of man describes Jesus in a physical human body. And one can blaspheme the son of man (i.e. Jesus in a physical body) and be forgiven. However blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is not forgivable.

In order for you to falsely claim that Paul blaspheme the Holy Ghost you have elevated Stephen (and those others) to the status of the Holy Ghost.

That act of equating a human to the Holy Ghost is denial of the absolute supremacy of the Holy Ghost and blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. Even the best human (who is filled with the Holy Ghost) is so very much less than the Holy Ghost.

You claim that Stephen was equal to the Holy Ghost (and deserving of the privilege reserved for the Holy Ghost) because he was a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, . . . .

Fact is not even Jesus, the highest man and the one fullest with the Holy Ghost), is equal to the Holy Ghost. For one can blaspheme Jesus, the man, and it can be forgiven. However if one blaspheme the Holy Ghost one is never forgiven.

Therefore there is one blasphemy that pertains to the highest (i.e. the Holy Ghost) and that blasphemy is not at all forgivable. You have attempted to reduce and compare that highest thing (i.e. the Holy Ghost) to a human simply to prove that Paul blaspheme the Holy Ghost.

To put is as the KJV N.T. puts it: Only a swine will trample a pearl in the mud. Or only Satan will deny a KJV N.T. revelation to strengthen his or her false and 'half baked' claim. Only a eternally reckless person will deny and blaspheme the Holy Ghost by comparing and equating same to a human.

Indeed you have erred against the Holy Ghost. It seems that nothing is sacred for you, when you are in your quest to destroy Paul and elevate you chosen one . . . . . You are in unforgivable and very dangerous territory. You have gone where angels fear to thread.

In your unaware and in-firmed state you are going where angles fear to thread, by falsely interpreting and teaching a false scripture. The result is that you are posting foolishness and misleading many. You are not even aware of your own very serious transgressions.

You must be made aware of your folly and serious errors in the most direct and effective way. It is O.K. if you drown your self into oblivion in the depths of earth. That is your free choice as given by God. However it is not right and cannot be right for you, with your corruption, to take unsuspecting others with you.

Hope that you realize that since your (base) claim, (that blaspheming a human is the same as blaspheming the Holy Ghost,) is wrong, nothing that you posted here, thereafter is worth anything.

 

[heir]

hello hier,



rather it says that Paul is the greatest (or first if you insist) of sinners. It does NOT say he is the first to be redeemed.

Nice try and I never said Paul was the first to be redeemed. Paul is the first, a pattern (which is a prototype) to them which would thereafter believe on Christ to life everlasting. Read it and believe it. 1 Timothy 1:16 KJV)

How can one be in Christ and not be a member of His Body?

There's more than one church in the Bible. Not all are members of the one Body.

I'll let Paul tell you: (Rom 1:8-12) (bolding by me)

First, I give thanks to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world.

God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in proclaiming the gospel of his Son, that I remember you constantly,

For I long to see you, that I may share with you some spiritual gift so that you may be strengthened,

that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by one another's faith, yours and mine.

always asking in my prayers that somehow by God's will I may at last find my way clear to come to you.

You'd be wise to read from the KJB Romans 1:8-12 KJV much is lost in (per)versions

Nothing to do with us??? 'Now I am speaking to you Gentiles...'

Better take that up with Paul. he wrote it.

You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to conclude that Paul is not talking specifically about how the gentiles relate to the Jews and the 'cultivated olive tree'.

No mental gymnastics to see that The Romans had a standing in the olive tree, but the tree was coming down. Paul was gathering those to whom God foreknew into the Body lest they too be cut off. It is not true of those who are saved.

Are you saying you have no root?

I'm not a tree or a part of a tree.

Did you not read it? Perhaps you should go back and look again.

When someone asks you what the gospel of your salvation is, you should tell them.

'He got up and was baptized,'

As Paul had already received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (through the laying on of hands) what then does this refer to?

The laying on of hands is not water. Why do you put water there? And that is not the one baptism of today, now is it? Where does Paul command members of the Body of Christ to be water baptized in Romans through Philemon?

I have been saved, I am being saved and by God's Grace I will be saved!

Paul says the same.

Paul writes that we are saved, not that we're "being saved".

 

[Nick M]

hello hier,


rather it says that Paul is the greatest of sinners. It does NOT say he is the first to be redeemed.

No it doesn't. What is a "prototype"? What is a "pattern". You don't want to be on the record as perverting the gospel. So be honest with your answer.

1 Timothy 1

16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

 

[heir]

You are in unforgivable and very dangerous territory. You have gone where angels fear to thread. [/COLOR]

Whether I am right or wrong about something does not put me as unforgivable and in danger. Get your gospel straight! Check it! I'm forgiven all trespasses (Colossians 2:13 KJV). If I'm wrong, the Lord will take it up with me at the judgment seat of Christ and I will suffer loss of reward, but that's it (1 Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV).

 

[Gurucam]

Nice try and I never said Paul was the first to be redeemed. Paul is the first, a pattern (which is a prototype) to them which would thereafter believe on Christ to life everlasting. Read it and believe it. 1 Timothy 1:16 KJV.

You quoted
1 Timothy 1:16 King James Version (KJV) - Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

However you do not have a clue as to the message in that revelation.

No doubt you will go forth and give your version. However rest assured that you will inevitably corrupt it as you have done with the privileged that is only for the Holy Ghost. (Remember you equate blasphemy of (flesh and blood) humans to blasphemy of the Holy Ghost a thing of Spirit). That was a very very serious mistake.

Again you are oblivious to your very erroneous practice.

It is not given for just any one to teach seekers of truth and Truth.

This is the message in that revelation (1 Timothy 1:16 King James Version):

That revelations is indeed linked to another one which you are quoting, frequently on this thread: Matthew 12:31 KJV - Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Paul was a man 'after the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth'. He was no longer a man after any thing physical. This means that Paul was no longer a man after Moses. Also he was not a man after Jesus in a physical body.

Paul was given by God to blaspheme any thing (except the Holy Ghost), including Moses, Moses' church and things delivered by Moses and he will not get sin. Peter was also given by God to blaspheme Jesus in His physical body (then he was the son of man), and he will not get sin. Paul was also given to blaspheme all the teachings and words which Jesus delivered when he was a man on earth, and he will not get sin. Paul was also given by God to blaspheme the church (i.e. Peter's church) which was anchored on the physically delivered teaching and words which Jesus delivered when He was in a physical body, and he will get no sin.

Paul was not given by God to deny and blaspheme the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth which is a Spirit and which he (and only he) discerned only spiritually. Also Paul was not given to deny and blaspheme the Holy Ghost which is also a Spirit and which he reached only through the Spirit of Jesus. Blasphemy of the Spirit of Jesus and blasphemy of the Holy Ghost are absolutely unforgivable sins for everyone.

In order to be saved and delivered you must know the above truth as a living thing and adapt it as your absolute Truth.

However in order for you or any other human to earn that privileged you must know the following and also make the passage which Paul made:

Paul said, 'I obtained mercy, that in me first . . . .'. The question that you should ask is: What did Paul get, in him first, that none of the others had got, up to that time.?

The answer is simple. Paul got the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth within him first. Paul was the first to commune with Jesus in His Spirit which is the Spirit of Truth. This was possible only after Jesus rose to heaven, in His Spirit body. Such communion is achieved only through a spirit to Spirit connection. (Spiritually things are discern only spiritually.) At that time, Paul was the first and only one to reach, be aware of and led by, that Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth which was within his own heart or spirit.

In fact, although the disciples got the first fruits of the Holy Spirit, there is no evidence that any of them or any of the others, got the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth, at all. And it is this Spirit (i.e. the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth) which granted Paul, mercy. Fact is, because Paul was led into all his works, by this Spirit (the Spirit of Jesus), he had God given freedom, liberty and justification to do any thing except blaspheme the Spirit of Jesus and the Holy Ghost, and he will get no sin, but instead be glorified by God.

Why do you oppose this effort to move traditional Christianity out of its absolutely corrupt moorings? Are you not tired of many being called to Christianity (in traditional Christianity) and the great majority (i.e. all but a few) erring because they are misled and not chosen? Don't you want this to stop?

Don't you want to have traditional Christianity purified in these last days so that those who come to it in these last days will get truth and Truth and not err and be chosen first? This is how the last will be first and the first last. You can be among the last who will be chosen first, if you empower and embrace the purification of traditional Christianity (by me, under Grace of God) in these last days.

 

[PhilipJames]

Hello heir,

Nice try and I never said Paul was the first to be redeemed. Paul is the first, a pattern (which is a prototype) to them which would thereafter believe on Christ to life everlasting. Read it and believe it. 1 Timothy 1:16 KJV)

You are reading something into this passage that just isn't there.

There's more than one church in the Bible. Not all are members of the one Body.

wow. Im off to work so no time now, but I hope tonight I can post MULTIPLE verses to show you that Church is indeed ONE.

You'd be wise to read from the KJB Romans 1:8-12 KJV much is lost in (per)versions

lol. you think the KJV is the only inspired version? On what do you base that?

No mental gymnastics to see that The Romans had a standing in the olive tree, but the tree was coming down.

:doh:

Paul was gathering those to whom God foreknew into the Body lest they too be cut off. It is not true of those who are saved.

You need to stop reading scripture to fit the pattern of those who have filled your head with these things and rather let it speak to you, itself.

I'm not a tree or a part of a tree.

and now you're being deliberately obtuse.

When someone asks you what the gospel of your salvation is, you should tell them.

I did. Here it is again: And the Good News of our salvation is this: that the Messiah, Jesus Christ has come and , by HIS death and resurrection, brought Salvation, not just to the Jews (those who believed, but ALSO to the gentiles (those who believe)

gotta run.... bbl

Peace!
PJ

 

[Gurucam]

Whether I am right or wrong about something does not put me as unforgivable and in danger. Get your gospel straight! Check it! I'm forgiven all trespasses (Colossians 2:13 KJV). If I'm wrong, the Lord will take it up with me at the judgment seat of Christ and I will suffer loss of reward, but that's it (1 Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV).

If you deny the supremacy of and therefore blaspheme the Holy Ghost you can be in serious danger of not only ordinary sin but unforgivable sin.

Remember you equated blasphemy of (flesh and blood) humans to blasphemy of the Holy Ghost (a thing of Spirit). That was a very very serious mistake, could be unforgivable sin.

One is not given to willy-nilly say any thing they want and pass it off as something in scriptures.

You seem to believe that everyone has a right to deliver their version of scriptures. And you also seem to believe that, at all events, they will not get unforgivable or other sin. That is not true.

Fact is the written scriptures are to be delivered only by those with an appropriate Gift of the Spirit that is specifically for spiritually discerning scriptures.

You referred to Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV. Here is verse: 10 -

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

Fact is one who blaspheme the Holy Ghost, either wittingly or unwittingly, has confirmed to all that he is not under Grace of God. You have suggested that blasphemy of a human (even one who is full of the Holy Ghost) is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. That is denial of the supremacy of the Holy Ghost. It is an absolutely foolish thing to do. That is easily blasphemy of the holy Ghost, and an unforgivable sin. That act is born out of unawareness and it is a very definite and clear confirmation that you are not at all under Grace of God.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

If you deny the supremacy of and therefore blaspheme the Holy Ghost you can be in serious danger of unforgivable sin.

Remember you equated blasphemy of (flesh and blood) humans to blasphemy of the Holy Ghost (a thing of Spirit). That was a very very serious mistake, could be unforgivable sin.

One is not given to willy-nilly say any thing they want and pass it off as something in scriptures.

You seem to believe that everyone has a right to deliver their version of scriptures. And at all events thy will not get unforgivable or other sin. That is not true.

Fact is the written scriptures are to be delivered only by those with an appropriate Gift of the Spirit that is specifically for spiritually discerning scriptures.

You're either badly misinformed or horrendously ignorant!
Which is it?

 

[Gurucam]

You're either badly misinformed or horrendously ignorant!
Which is it?

Sound very arrogant and self-righteous. Are you?

The meek who is foolish to the wisdom of the world will inherit the earth. . . . As for 'know it alls', including loud 'know it alls', . . . . well they will probably not make it.

Also the supposed foolish who do not agree with the billion strong in traditional Christianity will be the few who have it right and do not err and are the chosen few.

Like some fast food places who can serve up their product many hundreds of thousands ways, the scriptures can be serve up very very many ways. However in Christianity there is only one correct way and only the chosen few have that recipe.

The billion or so in what passes for Christianity cannot be the few who have it right. They are simply to many to be the few who have it right and therefore do not err and are the chosen few. Additionally in traditional Christianity, scriptures are served up in hundred of thousands ways and/or renditions. There can be only one correct 'version'. This means that if one itsy-bitsy church in tin-buck-too, with just a few meek people, have it right, then this means that the billion or so in traditional Christianity every where else are misled and they err and they gone through. They are not chosen.

Let us start at the correct place.

It is confirmed that many are called and few chosen. This means that of the billion or so in traditional Christianity, the very great majority (i.e. all but a few) will have it absolutely wrong and therefore not be chosen. They will not make it. At best only a few will have it right, not err and be the chosen few. Only these few will make it.
What would cause so much people to simply not make it.

Is it possible that these billion or so people who are called to Christianity in Traditional Christianity have consistently denied the supremacy of and therefore blaspheme, the Holy Ghost and so committed unforgivable sin?

For what else but unforgivable sin can lead to the doom of a billion or so people who are seeking to be Christians? Fact is the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. Absolutely all other manner of sin and blasphemy are forgivable and therefore these other transgressions cannot lead to one not being chosen.

Should we not check to make sure?

Therefore Grosnick Marowbe, it is not at all expedient to be careless about blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. Additionally there is no room for your irrational appraoch. Was that an emotional out burst? Are you often subject to those?

Instead, why not try to show, with literal support from the KJV N.T., that my post is in err.

The possible worse scenario and very sad thing that we or anyone else might have to share is: that one have blaspheme the Holy Ghost. And indeed none of us have laid down that such blasphemy is unforgivable.

So let us look carefully and dispassionately into all things and possibilities related to blaspheming of the Holy Ghost. Because if one has done so . . . .well one has done so. And we have not made up the dire consequences that results from such an act.

 

[Gurucam]

Dear Musterion.

No.
No.
And Sir I mean it: No.


To this day I make Jews jealous. Don't you?
I can even make Messianics a type of jealous.

But I fear you cannot.

By y'all making yourselves separate from Jews like Paul and Timothy and the writer of Hebrews - you remove what would make anyone like that jealous.

The grace, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, the faith - these are not for you only - it was promised to them. first.
Don't say its ok, they will get a kingdom. Though they may - it won't be instead of those other things, right? Right.

Y'all want to be rid of water baptism?
Ok, so do the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Go ahead.

And pour out Grace too, while you are at it.

Yes, yes, I know - and faith too that goes with it.
.....

I'm waiting...


Oh what?

You are not God?

Let me guess: you never said you were God, right?

You only said what He did was wayyyyyyy better than what man did, is that it?


Well I need you all to quit doing this. I mean it. I need y'all back in line and closer to me. You don't have to be like me - a Calvie - but you can't be weirder!

Of course baptism with the Holy Spirit is better than baptism with water! Hello???? But what are you guys ultimately saying? You need to think about that. So please quit killing me. All of you.
Then the things you guys really are right about can shine like jewels - and make us jealous.

The above is a reply to:

Originally Posted by musterion View Post
Water baptisms were tied to God's purposes for Israel;

Musterion is absolutely right. Water baptism was also reaffirmed for those in Peter's commission and Peter's church but not for Paul's church. Water baptism pertains to the gospel of circumcision which was committed onto Moses and Peter. The gospel of circumcision is righteousness with and under, the law and canons etc.

Spirit baptism (absolutely without water baptism) is the way of Paul's commission and Paul's 'not seen' church. Spirit baptism is the fabric of the gospel of un-circumcision which was committed onto Paul. The gospel of un-circumcision is righteousness that is without (and with no regard for) the law and canons etc.

It is solely through Spirit baptism that one has the liberty granted in Matthew 12:31 KJV - Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy (including denial and blasphemy of the law and canons) shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

No one is forgiven for blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, period.

Those under Spirit baptism have God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress all manner of social, moral and religious ideals and laws (like the law and canons etc.) and not get sin but instead be glorified by God.

It is totally different under water baptism.

Under water baptism and in those churches which practice water baptism, one will not be forgiven for denial, blasphemy and transgression of the Ten Commandments and canons. Also those church and priests etc. in those churches, are not given by God and Jesus to forgive sin and therefore cannot forgive any manner of sin and blasphemy.

. . . do not be fooled.

 

[heir]

Hello heir,


You are reading something into this passage that just isn't there.

You ignore what is there.


1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
wow.

Im off to work so no time now, but I hope tonight I can post MULTIPLE verses to show you that Church is indeed ONE.

The Body is one, but there is more than one church in the Bible (FYI-there are three). Paul persecuted the church of God and wasted it (Galatians 1:13 KJV).

lol. you think the KJV is the only inspired version? On what do you base that?

All scripture is inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV. I believe the pure and preserved words of the Lord is the KJB, yes (Psalms 12:6-7 KJV).

:doh:

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

The only way for the Romans to continue in God's goodness would be for them to be stablished into the Body of Christ according to:

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Romans 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

That is why Paul longed to see them:

Romans 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;

Romans 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
...

Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

You need to stop reading scripture to fit the pattern of those who have filled your head with these things and rather let it speak to you, itself.

It does!

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Romans 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

Romans 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

...

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Romans 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

and now you're being deliberately obtuse.

There is no tree today, but a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV), the church (with Christ the Head), which is His Body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all (Ephesians 1:22-23 KJV)

I did. Here it is again: And the Good News of our salvation is this: that the Messiah, Jesus Christ has come and , by HIS death and resurrection, brought Salvation, not just to the Jews (those who believed, but ALSO to the gentiles (those who believe)

Believe what?