Was God responsible for Adam's sin?

Lon

Lon

Well-known member
Bright Raven said:
What think you? I would say no. Adam sinned through free will.
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"Responsible" means having care and control as well as/against 'caused.'

Because it means both, one is going to answer one way, and others another, even within one's own denomination and beliefs.

I tend to answer the positive aspect of 'responsible' as yes. God's nature assumes care for our fallen nature and Christ was planned before the creation of the world.
 
Zeke

Zeke

Well-known member
daqq said:
See what I mean Zeke? :crackup:

This person believes Cain and Abel were literal people, and that Cain literally physically murdered his brother Abel, and that Cain by his murderous actions fulfilled the will of God in murdering his brother Abel, (and again, yikes!). :)
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Yea, but I been there done that myself so I know the stronghold that type of traditional teaching can have.

Just like the Elect/Elitist 1% get a real education, and the 99%/Goyim get indoctrinated.
 
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beloved57 said:
Not His permission, thats weak, But Adams sin was according to Gods Purpose ! God was the positive Cause of Adams sin as so much He is the Positive Cause of His Eternal Purpose in Christ !

Thats why folk like you i consider heretics !
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Re-read my post in full.

As I observed in my previous post, it is appropriate, therefore, to use permission to refer to God’s ordination of sin. But we should not assume, as non-Reformed do, that divine permission is anything less than sovereign ordination. What God permits or allows will happen. God could easily have prevented Satan’s attack on Job if he had intended to. That he did not prevent that attack implies that he intended it.

Your comments would imply God is the author of sin. By "author" it is meant the doer of sin. This is an abomination. Men do wickedly what God wills righteously. Man acts according to his own will to do only that which he is most inclined to do. The doer of the act is the morally accountable to God.

Yours is but a claim to know the mind of God and His secret providence against the teachings of Scripture (Deut. 29:29). This is the root issue of the error of hyper-Calvinists like yourself.

AMR
 
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Shasta

Shasta

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
Of course, how else could Adam had sinned if God did not give him being ? Before God gave him being, God knew Adam would sin and He gave him being anyway ! So yes God was responsible for it, but God did not sin, Adam did !
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True, Adam could not have sinned if God had not given him "being" but since "being" means "existence" your statement amounts to nothing more than saying "a non-existent creature could not sin" which is nonsense. You are confusing a necessary condition for a cause. Adam's existence was NOT the reason he sinned though it was a necessary condition for doing so. If God can only make sentient creatures who sin then He has no grounds to call anything He makes "good" much less "very good."
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Shasta said:
True, Adam could not have sinned if God had not given him "being" but since "being" means "existence" your statement amounts to nothing more than saying "a non-existent creature could not sin" which is nonsense. You are confusing a necessary condition for a cause. Adam's existence was NOT the reason he sinned though it was a necessary condition for doing so. If God can only make sentient creatures who sin then He has no grounds to call anything He makes "good" much less "very good."
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Right , Adam could not have sinned without existing, who is responsible for Adam existing ?
 
C

chair

Well-known member
What kind of free will did Adam have, if he did not know good from evil until after he ate of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil".

See also Genesis 3:22
Then the Lord God said, “See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil;​
 
themuzicman

themuzicman

Well-known member
chair said:
What kind of free will did Adam have, if he did not know good from evil until after he ate of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil".

See also Genesis 3:22
Then the Lord God said, “See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil;​
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He knew not to eat from the tree. God gave him a direct command about that, Gen 2:16
 
Crucible

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Calvinism boasts scripture from Genesis to Revelation and people think they just throw a verse or passage and all of a sudden the entirety of Reformed Doctrine, Calvin's life work, comes crashing down..

:doh:

Calvin is more qualified and precedes you by five centuries- when Christianity was at it's most internally controversial. It's also built upon Augustine, who precedes him by a thousand years, who is a revered, canonized Saint.

Sorry to burst thy bubbles :wave:
 
TulipBee

TulipBee

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Crucible said:
Calvinism boasts scripture from Genesis to Revelation and people think they just throw a verse or passage and all of a sudden the entirety of Reformed Doctrine, Calvin's life work, comes crashing down..

:doh:

Calvin is more qualified and precedes you by five centuries- when Christianity was at it's most internally controversial. It's also built upon Augustine, who precedes him by a thousand years, who is a revered, canonized Saint.

Sorry to burst thy bubbles :wave:
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Wow. My bubbles didn't pop when you spoke. The tulip shields are strong
 
Crucible

Crucible

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TulipBee said:
Wow. My bubbles didn't pop when you spoke. The tulip shields are strong
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