Trump is right to fight for the border wall
- Thread starter Catholic Crusader
- Start date
drbrumley
Well-known member
A Better Solution Than Trump’s Border Wall
By Ron Paul
Ron Paul Institute
Just one week in office, President Trump is already following through on his pledge to address illegal immigration. His January 25th executive order called for the construction of a wall along the entire length of the US-Mexico border. While he is right to focus on the issue, there are several reasons why his proposed solution will unfortunately not lead us anywhere closer to solving the problem.
First, the wall will not work. Texas already started building a border fence about ten years ago. It divided people from their own property across the border, it deprived people of their land through the use of eminent domain, and in the end, the problem of drug and human smuggling was not solved.
Second, the wall will be expensive. The wall is estimated to cost between 12 and 15 billion dollars. You can bet it will be more than that. President Trump has claimed that if the Mexican government doesn’t pay for it, he will impose a 20 percent duty on products imported from Mexico. Who will pay this tax? Ultimately, the American consumer, as the additional costs will be passed on. This will, of course, hurt the poorest Americans the most.
Third, building a wall ignores the real causes of illegal border crossings into the United States. Though President Trump is right to prioritize the problem of border security, he misses the point on how it can be done effectively and at an actual financial benefit to the country rather than a huge economic drain.
The solution to really addressing the problem of illegal immigration, drug smuggling, and the threat of cross-border terrorism is clear: remove the welfare magnet that attracts so many to cross the border illegally, stop the 25 year US war in the Middle East, and end the drug war that incentivizes smugglers to cross the border.
The various taxpayer-funded programs that benefit illegal immigrants in the United States, such as direct financial transfers, medical benefits, food assistance, and education, cost an estimated $100 billion dollars per year. That is a significant burden on citizens and legal residents. The promise of free money, free food, free education, and free medical care if you cross the border illegally is a powerful incentive for people to do so. It especially makes no sense for the United States government to provide these services to those who are not in the US legally.
Likewise, the 40-year war on drugs has produced no benefit to the American people at a great cost. It is estimated that since President Nixon declared a war on drugs, the US has spent more than a trillion dollars to fight what is a losing battle. That is because just as with the welfare magnet, there is an enormous incentive to smuggle drugs into the United States.
We already know the effect that ending the war on drugs has on illegal smuggling: as more and more US states decriminalize marijuana for medical and recreational uses, marijuana smuggling from Mexico to the US has dropped by 50 percent from 2010.
Finally, the threat of terrorists crossing into the United States from Mexico must be taken seriously, however once again we must soberly consider why they may seek to do us harm. We have been dropping bombs on the Middle East since at least 1990. Last year President Obama dropped more than 26,000 bombs. Thousands of civilians have been killed in US drone attacks. The grand US plan to “remake” the Middle East has produced only misery, bloodshed, and terrorism. Ending this senseless intervention will go a long way toward removing the incentive to attack the United States.
I believe it is important for the United States to have secure borders, but unfortunately, President Trump’s plan to build a wall will end up costing a fortune while ignoring the real problem of why people cross the borders illegally. They will keep coming as long as those incentives remain.
By Ron Paul
Ron Paul Institute
Just one week in office, President Trump is already following through on his pledge to address illegal immigration. His January 25th executive order called for the construction of a wall along the entire length of the US-Mexico border. While he is right to focus on the issue, there are several reasons why his proposed solution will unfortunately not lead us anywhere closer to solving the problem.
First, the wall will not work. Texas already started building a border fence about ten years ago. It divided people from their own property across the border, it deprived people of their land through the use of eminent domain, and in the end, the problem of drug and human smuggling was not solved.
Second, the wall will be expensive. The wall is estimated to cost between 12 and 15 billion dollars. You can bet it will be more than that. President Trump has claimed that if the Mexican government doesn’t pay for it, he will impose a 20 percent duty on products imported from Mexico. Who will pay this tax? Ultimately, the American consumer, as the additional costs will be passed on. This will, of course, hurt the poorest Americans the most.
Third, building a wall ignores the real causes of illegal border crossings into the United States. Though President Trump is right to prioritize the problem of border security, he misses the point on how it can be done effectively and at an actual financial benefit to the country rather than a huge economic drain.
The solution to really addressing the problem of illegal immigration, drug smuggling, and the threat of cross-border terrorism is clear: remove the welfare magnet that attracts so many to cross the border illegally, stop the 25 year US war in the Middle East, and end the drug war that incentivizes smugglers to cross the border.
The various taxpayer-funded programs that benefit illegal immigrants in the United States, such as direct financial transfers, medical benefits, food assistance, and education, cost an estimated $100 billion dollars per year. That is a significant burden on citizens and legal residents. The promise of free money, free food, free education, and free medical care if you cross the border illegally is a powerful incentive for people to do so. It especially makes no sense for the United States government to provide these services to those who are not in the US legally.
Likewise, the 40-year war on drugs has produced no benefit to the American people at a great cost. It is estimated that since President Nixon declared a war on drugs, the US has spent more than a trillion dollars to fight what is a losing battle. That is because just as with the welfare magnet, there is an enormous incentive to smuggle drugs into the United States.
We already know the effect that ending the war on drugs has on illegal smuggling: as more and more US states decriminalize marijuana for medical and recreational uses, marijuana smuggling from Mexico to the US has dropped by 50 percent from 2010.
Finally, the threat of terrorists crossing into the United States from Mexico must be taken seriously, however once again we must soberly consider why they may seek to do us harm. We have been dropping bombs on the Middle East since at least 1990. Last year President Obama dropped more than 26,000 bombs. Thousands of civilians have been killed in US drone attacks. The grand US plan to “remake” the Middle East has produced only misery, bloodshed, and terrorism. Ending this senseless intervention will go a long way toward removing the incentive to attack the United States.
I believe it is important for the United States to have secure borders, but unfortunately, President Trump’s plan to build a wall will end up costing a fortune while ignoring the real problem of why people cross the borders illegally. They will keep coming as long as those incentives remain.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
"the poorest americans"
that would include the illegals already in the country, right?
drbrumley
Well-known member
Illegals make more than the "poorest American."
WizardofOz
New member
| Homeland Security specifications that it be either a solid concrete wall or a see–through structure, “physically imposing in height,” ideally 30 feet high but no less than 18 feet, sunk at least six feet into the ground to prevent tunneling under it; that it should not be scalable with even sophisticated climbing aids; and that it should withstand prolonged attacks with impact tools, cutting tools, and torches. |
Did you actually read the article?
DHS is saying it should be at least six feet into the ground the prevent tunneling and fail to explain how it will not be scalable even with sophisticated climbing aids. As described, digging down six feet really isn't going to prevent many tunnels.
| Both prototypes call for a 30-foot-high-wall, though 18 feet may be acceptable, and one that is “aesthetically pleasing in color” — at least from the U.S. side. Omitted from the requests is the word “impenetrable” — a quality Trump vowed the wall would have. But the requests for proposals seemed to acknowledge that might not be possible. Instead, the requests say the prototypes must be able to withstand “for a minimum of 1 hour” efforts to breach it by punching, using a sledgehammer, or a “car jack, pick axe, chisel, battery operated impact tools, battery operated cutting tools, Oxy/acetylene torch or other similar hand-held tools.” The requests also say the wall must have anti-climbing devices and mechanisms to prevent tunneling under it to a depth of six feet. Here |
So, Brookings isn't just making this up.
Actually, it's a rebuttal to actual Trump quotes: President Donald Trump says that his proposed wall along the Mexico border “will stop much of the drugs from pouring into this country.”
“The drugs are pouring in at levels like nobody has ever seen,” Trump said. “We’ll be able to stop them once the wall is up.”
Vanda Felbab-Brown is simply saying building a wall wouldn't stop it like Trump has claimed it would. So, the imprecise language used originated with Trump. We need to ask him to clarify; will the wall stop some smuggling? How much smuggling with it stop?
He needs to clarify what he's claiming this wall will do or why he thinks it would stop "much of the drugs from pouring in".
I imagine two are dug for every one discovered and destroyed.
This is what frustrates me. Pelosi was an idiot for saying that. She also is an idiot in general. She was rightly criticized. Now, Trump supporters are blindly following his plan to build a wall and attacking anyone who has legitimate questions and concerns about the long-term effectiveness of this rather expensive plan.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
they quote some little bits and then paraphrase most of it - i'd prefer to see the original from DHS than the author's paraphrase
he does slip up here, when he paraphrases this: "to prevent tunneling under it to a depth of six feet"
that's very different than the DHS saying, as he implies, that a six foot depth will stop all tunnels
also, a bit disingenuous to bury in the text of the article the following: "the wall must have anti-climbing devices" after suggesting in a headline that "the DHS believes that a 30–foot tall wall cannot be scaled"
looks to me like DHS does indeed realize that a plain unadorned wall can be scaled
so, more strawmen from the brookings institute
it's a shame to see them stoop to this level - I used to respect their work
but then i used to respect the work done by those disgusting scumbags at the southern poverty law center
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
i would expect that a wall would stop most if not all of the cross border drug smuggling that currently occurs where there is no wall/fence/effective border security
and i'm sure that DHS understands that drug smugglers won't just stop, they'll look for other ways to bring drugs cross-border, ways that aren't as easy as just walking or driving it across an open border
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
if those legitimate questions come from DHS or border patrol or local LEA in the border states, i'm willing to listen
if they just come from the usual retarded trump haters on the left, i don't care
I don't read anything you post. Your track record of ignorance and stupidity is too far and wide for me to ever waste my time.
drbrumley
Well-known member
says one of the dumbest ones here....
Talking to yourself again? I have more intelligence in my toe then you'll ever have.
Wondering if walls work? Since Israel put up their border wall, illeagal immigration and suicide bombings have gone to...ZERO.
American lives matter too; build the wall!
American lives matter too; build the wall!
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
missed this one - re tunnels:
and what is the cost of a tunnel compared to a pickup traveling across a poorly monitored stretch of border?
answer: high
nobody thinks putting up a wall will stop the laws of supply and demand, but it will force smugglers to work harder and to use methods that are easier to combat
and what is the cost of a tunnel compared to a pickup traveling across a poorly monitored stretch of border?
answer: high
nobody thinks putting up a wall will stop the laws of supply and demand, but it will force smugglers to work harder and to use methods that are easier to combat
Just another example of conservatives engaging in "bait and switch" - it was the Mexicans who were supposed to pay for the wall, not the "stupid US taxpayer!"
Kit the Coyote
New member
It appears they are dealing with the caravans by just letting them through.
Over 500 migrants to be dropped off in El Paso through network of hospitality sites, nonprofit says