Treating Homosexuals Differently at Home and Church

danoman31

Member
Well it was actually were he or she to tell you they were gay but by the by for now. I'm going to disregard your comment as regards atheists as it's irrelevant and I don't happen to be one anyway.

Now if it wasn't for your child being a non practicing homosexual would you still lay out the same guidelines for his/her still being able to reside under your roof? In other words, is the only criteria for your shelter and protection that your child believe the same as you've described above? Say you asked your 18 year old heterosexual child the exact same questions and they responded negatively, would you kick them out of your home?

Do you see the point here?

Yes I see the point. No I would not kick him out of my house because he doesn't believe what I believe. I would kick him out if he were wicked and vile. If he is offensive to God, he's offensive to me. Of course again I would inform him of the errors/consequences of his behaviour and hope he repents and accepts Jesus as his Lord and saviour. If he continues to be wicked and vile then out he goes.

Does that answer your question to your satisfaction?
 

danoman31

Member
You simply type [ quote ] to begin quoting someone (without the spaces) and then put the persons text in and then end it by typing [ / quote ] (again without the spaces). Simply check what I have done when you quote me to see what I mean.


I do not just claim to be an atheist. I am an atheist.
sorry didn't mean to malign you in any way


Well, you queried where my tolerance was as if I was expected to have it towards you. I responded and now you've answered your own initial question. My "so called morals" trump yours though on the basis that they are concerned about the welfare of other humans (the only working relevant definition of morality) and that yours does not.


Concerning morality, there isn't. Morality is a human construct devised by us for us.


I thought you were being sarcastic, even though I agreed with what you were saying.


This would not be your first incorrect assumption. I'm a bloke (slang for male in the UK).


You answered your own question again. When you presume to know about the 'homosexual lifestyle' and tell homosexuals that they are hell-bound, vile, perverts etc then you take upon the properties of arrogant and ignorant to them and immediately invite contempt. Just like how if a Muslim approached you and warned you of eternal hellfire and demanded you revoke your "idols" you would view him with contempt.
I do know quite a bit about the homosexual lifestyle. I expect contempt when I inform them of their consequences. Oddly enough though most seem to be OK with what I tell them, must be the way I do it. As to a muslim approaching me, he would be wrong in warning me of eternal hellfire and demanding that I revoke my idols, I don't worship idols anyway. I would be remiss if I didn't inform him the error of his ways. Then he'd probably try to kill me since I'm an infadel. He'd probably lose and THEN he'd know I was right after all. If he managed to kill me, well so be it. I'll wait for him to still realize that I'm right.


That's not what I was referring to. Never-mind. I suspect you weren't saying what I thought you were saying anyway.


There are no moral absolutes. Though if your belief on God is true, all of the above there would be true.
And I'm sure you are absolutely postive about that. Yeah if, huh. Better hope I'm not.

Uh, sure. This is more true than I think you know. Why indeed would anyone want to obey a being that would condemn all non-believers to eternal torment?
Because He offers eternal life with no pain, suffering, hunger, sadness, disease, and more I'm sure. The alternative is the opposite and again more I'm sure. You have nothing, this life is it and if you happen to be diseased or life has just been really crappy for you, and you have given up hope that things will get any better, well then why would you still be here. If you've been lucky enough to have lived a great life why wouldn't you want it to last. For you this is as good as it gets. Hope it's been a grand life for you so far. Because it's gonna be crappy for you for a very very long time


You're right, I don't. I've never asked or even implied anyone obey or worship me. I get though that you're apparently so vested in your own self-interest that you'll endorse apparently anything that God says no matter how evil it is towards others. I already know that you're in a slave-master setup.


This isn't true. If I was to accept the offer of salvation then I would be required by definition to feign belief in Christianity. It would demand that I pretend to believe something that I both both evil and untrue for my own self-interest. In the grand scheme of things, it is difficult to actually imagine something so self-serving and contemptible.
If you were to truly accept the offer of salvation you wouldn't be feigning belief.You would truly become a believer. Once there you'd find out that it's not evil or untrue and was designed for your self intrest. He was crucified and died for YOU. Self serving you betchya.


For the last statement, I have no dispute. I am sure you have a lot more arrogance and ignorance on many avenues. Don't stop on account of me.
Trust me I won't. I have you and many others here to remind me of my arrogance and ignorance. I must be stupid or something huh, every one says I am, must be true.


You understand that there's a significant difference between pedophilia and homosexuality, right? It is entirely acceptable to disown your child for actions such as rape, murder, pedophilia and violent crime especially if they show no remorse, regret or shame. It is not the same to disown your child for having a consensual relationship with another person in the same gender.
Both are disgusting and wicked. You disagree I know, you are wrong. I am done trying to convince you that it is. You know you can't convince me otherwise.

Apples and oranges.
Both fruits.


Actually, I wouldn't be. A good job though that I probably would disown my child for something like the above.

Whether or not it is "close enough for you" doesn't matter. It was a stupid analogy that was divorced from what I said. It is contemptible to disown your own child based on them being in a homosexual relationship.
Matters to God. Contemptable according to who you? You'd have to have a moral compass of some sort to call me contemptable. Where did you get it. Society, tradition, conscience, culture reason. Where did all that come from, who was the first to decide what is right and what is wrong. Oh yeah there is no right or wrong in your world, its all relative. And you call me arrogant and ignorant. Tea pot calling the kettle black?


And now according to you he promises to or affiliates with the being that will torture people forever for not permanently viewing him in constant adulation. Talk about a fall from grace.
Don't you admire your parents for the wonderful things they've done for you. Brought you to life and cherished you enough to love you. God has given us a gift that only he could provide, I for one am thankful for that and gladly worship Him.

I can't have much sympathy there, I'm afraid.


Yeah, you mean sexually abnormal and/or grotesque. Take away the word 'sexual' from it and it simply becomes abnormal and therefore can become anything that is taboo or non-mainstream, such as listening to specific music.
Those that say listening to certain kinds of music condems one to hell are morons. If you become spirit filled that kind of music will no longer appeal to you anyway. God knows whats taboo, abnormal, grotesque, therefore I know.

To put simply: Making the argument that something is wrong because it is 'perverse' doesn't work unless you wish to impose mass conformity on all people at all times.


Now you're going to need to citate what the Bible says on homosexuality.
Why would I do that, you'll just rebuke it anyway. I can provide all the proof there is right before your very eyes and you will still deny all of it. And you think you can provide me with all the proof there is to cancel mine. Stalemate.


I'll take that. It is more a concession than you admit. You make claims like homosexuality leads only to "destruction" and "death" and admit that according to all human knowledge ever that it is baseless. I'll take that, absolutely.


Yeah, pretty much. More accurately though: We know more about homosexuality than the superstitious and ignorant authors of the Bible.


LOL

So what was your point? You've very good at inadvertently summarising my position. Most parents worth their salt won't care about their child's sexuality.
Yeah right, youre a fool


You're right, it is a long shot. At the moment you seem to also think that I am a woman as well so at the moment you have me down for a lesbian. I am for your information a heterosexual male.
Well we'll never no for sure. But I'll take your word for it.

For someone who claims to know so much about other people's thought processes you seem to frequently miss in your observations.
Yeah that happens sometimes. Frequently? So how many more times before I get the label of always.


This is even more arrogant and disgusting. How sir, would you even pretend to know what my parents think on this matter? Do you know them? You are literally claiming more insight into the thought process of my own parents than me and you wonder why I call you arrogant?!
Offended? Yeah Jesus was accused of doing the same thing, no wonder he was crucified.


Actually, given that I am not homosexual I haven't accused them of anything like that.

I also want to take note here about your hypocrisy. You think it entirely appropriate to make sweeping comments about all homosexuals inadvertently labeling them all or mostly pedophiles with your silly analogy earlier or labelling them as vile, perverts etc and yet it saddens you when they my reciprocate and call people who make those statements as bigoted and intolerant?
If what I say makes me bigot and a hypocrite by your definition or even my fellow believers definition then so be it. I'm neither, but then again any proof I might provide to prove my innocence will be rebuked.

Do you have any self-awareness whatsoever?


Of course all of this is fantasy because I'm straight.


Probably.

That you disagree with them doesn't mean they describe themselves as any less Christian.
You're an idiot. I am disgusted.


Hyuck-Hyuck yer got me!
Some day when I graduate 4th grade and then get my GED you'll really get it coming, you ain't seen nuttin' yet.

Pure wit, clearly.

hey I did the quote thing like you said. hope i got it right, don't want to do this twice. already p**** off Elo. This was fun are we done yet or is there more? ( man I'm so sorry for screwing this quote thing up. I'll search for that post I saw sometime back, it was more explicit. To Skavau and others reading this post, my sincere apologies.)
 
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Persephone66

BANNED
Banned
Geez, is there anybody here that can really sock it to me, put me in my place, make me run away in shame to never come back. Where are the REAL toughies. I'm an uneducated 3rd grade drop out, twice, remember?
So you come here wanting abuse? Or at least to be told you are wrong? Sorry, I'm no longer going to feed your fetish.
 
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Skavau

New member
Okay, you quoted me poorly entirely because you quoted your own reply but I can make out what you responded to well enough.

danoman31 said:
sorry didn't mean to malign you in any way
You didn't malign me. Some people act as if there are no true atheists and that everyone secretly believes in God so when you said "claim to be an atheist" I thought you were implying that I am in fact, a closet theist.

I do know quite a bit about the homosexual lifestyle. I expect contempt when I inform them of their consequences.
So what is your complaint then? You act openly hostile towards homosexuals and receive... hostility!

Oddly enough though most seem to be OK with what I tell them, must be the way I do it. As to a muslim approaching me, he would be wrong in warning me of eternal hellfire and demanding that I revoke my idols, I don't worship idols anyway.
From his perspective, he would be right. He would call your beliefs untrue at best and akin to idol worshipping at worst. He would tell you or could tell you that you are on a path to eternal hellfire whether or not you think he's right or not.

I would be remiss if I didn't inform him the error of his ways. Then he'd probably try to kill me since I'm an infadel.
It appears your knowledge of Muslims exists only in a fantasy universe as well as homosexuals. Not every Muslim is going to attempt to murder you for being a Christian. In fact, it is less likely they will do so to Christians as many Muslims under the extreme and militant banner of their faith consider Christians 'people of the book' at the very least.

And I'm sure you are absolutely postive about that. Yeah if, huh. Better hope I'm not.
I am positive about there being no moral absolutes. That you might be right has nothing to do with anything here. I do not terminate my critical faculties at the possibility of being harmed for using them to come to specific conclusions.

Because He offers eternal life with no pain, suffering, hunger, sadness, disease, and more I'm sure.
Only to those who are convinced of his existence. If you think that Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Baha'i, Zoroastarianism, Sikhism, any other theism or polytheism or non-theism that can be named is true then he will torture you for your 'insolence'. You only say he offers eternal life because you believe he exists and you believe that eternal life exists in his name. Most people don't believe as you do and see no reason to capitulate their own will and values in favour of your supernatural fascism.

The alternative is the opposite and again more I'm sure. You have nothing, this life is it and if you happen to be diseased or life has just been really crappy for you, and you have given up hope that things will get any better, well then why would you still be here.
All of this happens by the will of your God, according to you. A Muslim born into poverty and ill education will most likely die a Muslim and be tortured forever for it. You are the one advocating depravity, not me. I am for the utopian-esque attempt to annihilate all poverty and disease in favour of secular civilisation. You make excuses for why it exists and condemn all those born into it as a Non-Christian to eternal torment should they not notice the truth you so carefully cradle and bombastically assert.

If you've been lucky enough to have lived a great life why wouldn't you want it to last.
I do want it to last. I just do not believe that it will last.

For you this is as good as it gets.
I don't impose false hope on myself.

Hope it's been a grand life for you so far. Because it's gonna be crappy for you for a very very long time
Another pseudo-threat/warning. This is not making you appear any less nasty and vicious towards everyone else (i.e: non-fascists).

If you were to truly accept the offer of salvation you wouldn't be feigning belief.
Then I am simply incapable of accepting the offer of salvation without being convinced.

Once there you'd find out that it's not evil or untrue and was designed for your self intrest.
You have it backwards. I have to believe that it is both moral and true before I can accept salvation. I have no will nor desire to accept salvation before both the morality and truth of your world-view is established. It is at the moment both untrue and evil.

He was crucified and died for YOU. Self serving you betchya.
He didn't actually die though, did he? In addition, his sacrifice was a sacrifice of extreme presumption. That he should have himself 'killed' in such a way on behalf of me is not something I want. That he would do this and declare that it somehow binds me to his objectives and his realms is an act of excessive arrogance and immediately negates my free-will.

Don't try and pretend as if vicarious redemption is less shady than I think it is. I've probably observed every argument for it.

Trust me I won't. I have you and many others here to remind me of my arrogance and ignorance. I must be stupid or something huh, every one says I am, must be true.
At the very least you should take note of what people are saying of you.

Both are disgusting and wicked. You disagree I know, you are wrong. I am done trying to convince you that it is. You know you can't convince me otherwise.
You haven't even bothered to try and convince me that homosexuality is akin to pedophilia. You've merely just insisted that it is and gone no further. You actually have to advance an argument before declaring the conclusion, you know.

Matters to God.
I don't care. Frivolous non-actions matter to your tyrant God. Your God apparently will torture people for not believing in him. I care as much for what matters to him as I do for Gaddafi of Libya.

Contemptable according to who you?
Yes, me. I was the one who said it.

You'd have to have a moral compass of some sort to call me contemptable.
Unlike you, I do have a moral compass.

Where did you get it. Society, tradition, conscience, culture reason.
Some of that is true, some of that is not. Society and tradition are linked and probably influence much of my morality. My conscience absolutely dictates my feelings at moral events. The culture is again my society and absolutely reason makes up the rest of my morality.

Where did all that come from, who was the first to decide what is right and what is wrong.
Us. It derives from us. We are a social species. Basic consideration towards others is a necessary requirement for any social species to survive. As we advanced, it advanced and it is as it is today and as we depart further and further from superstition (the father of most bigotry) it will continue to advance. The kind of depravity that promotes torture for what people think or the disowning of children for who they are will be confined to the history books.

Oh yeah there is no right or wrong in your world, its all relative.
I said neither, actually. Not believing that morality is absolute does not necessitate the endorsing of relative morality.

And you call me arrogant and ignorant. Tea pot calling the kettle black?
How does believing in a subjective morality mean I am arrogant and ignorant?

Don't you admire your parents for the wonderful things they've done for you. Brought you to life and cherished you enough to love you. God has given us a gift that only he could provide, I for one am thankful for that and gladly worship Him.
My parents don't have the right to torture me forever for being ungrateful.

I am not thankful to a being that has actually allowed billions of people throughout history to die of disease and natural disaster only to them permanently torture millions of them for being of the wrong faith. That is the ultimate in servility and masochism and you are welcome to keep it to yourself.

Those that say listening to certain kinds of music condems one to hell are morons.
I agree, though for different reasons I expect. But my point doesn't concern hell here.

If you become spirit filled that kind of music will no longer appeal to you anyway. God knows whats taboo, abnormal, grotesque, therefore I know.
So my point was right then. When you call something 'perverted' you simply refer to something that is sexually abnormal. I respond simply with a shrug. So what? Why should anyone care that you think that their sexual actions in the privacy of their bedroom is abnormal?

Why would I do that, you'll just rebuke it anyway. I can provide all the proof there is right before your very eyes and you will still deny all of it. And you think you can provide me with all the proof there is to cancel mine. Stalemate.
Well, at least you admit you don't have any proof.

Yeah right, youre a fool
Such supreme replies full of outstanding wit.

I'll respond in kind: You're a bigot.

Well we'll never no for sure. But I'll take your word for it.
Well, you won't. But nice work earlier slandering my parents anyway.

Yeah that happens sometimes. Frequently? So how many more times before I get the label of always.
Well, of course. You made two guesses. You guessed my gender and my sexual orientation. You had a 50% chance of being correct on my gender and you got it wrong. Ignoring bisexuality and asexuality you had a 50% chance of being correct on my sexual orientation and you got it wrong. You also completely misrepresented my parents as well. You have a 0% track record on getting my handle.

Offended? Yeah Jesus was accused of doing the same thing, no wonder he was crucified.
Now you're comparing yourself to Jesus. You have far less humility than you think.

That you would slander my parents and then compare yourself to Jesus when called on it speaks volumes about your character.

If what I say makes me bigot and a hypocrite by your definition or even my fellow believers definition then so be it. I'm neither, but then again any proof I might provide to prove my innocence will be rebuked.
Did you just miss what I said? You feel quite content in insulting others and making statements about them and their families (in my case) and yet when it is reciprocated you suggest that you would be sadden. Do you have any self-awareness at all?

You're an idiot. I am disgusted.
My outrage was better. At least it was legitimate.
 

danoman31

Member
Obviously you didn't get it. I said there are converted and unconverted Christians, and even gave you Peter as an example of an unconverted Christian (Jesus said Peter was unconverted at that time).

Yeah yeah converted I got it alright, not quite sure you do though. By the way wasn't Peter Jewish. And Christianity began when?



1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin.

Uh huh oook, so I'm correct now what?



Rather, I no longer sin because I repented.

potato potato or as Dan Quayle said "potatoe potatoe"

I wouldn't say that, but would say you haven't repented.

Well thanks for the heads up. Think I'm gonna defer to the Judge on that though. Not that I don't trust YOUR judgement, just wanna 2nd opinion from the Boss.



If you knew what I meant, you should have addressed my point.

Dude ligthen up!!! Youre gonna blow a gasket.



It means you are still a sinner and have not repented. That you don't feel like a sinner even though you sin is a problem. Hopefully you will resolve that problem with God's help in short order.
.

Now why is it that you get to declare me a sinner. See above response. Don't I need to be under the Law to know that I'm a sinner? Are you still under the Law? Just to be sure I'll do the repent thing again.......... Ta da, all fresh and and squeeky clean. Thanks Elo, don't know where I'd be without you. Oh wait thats right, burning in Hell. Neverrr Mind.
 

danoman31

Member
Paul has a different take on John 14:12? Not at all.

According to Jesus, those who believe will do the works he did and greater works. Jesus didn't sin, and neither do those who believe the gospel.

So Jesus didn't give Paul a different set of rules to give us Gentiles?
Well then that makes Paul out to be charlotan. I like Paul, think I'll stick with what he said.



No. According to Jesus and Paul you are servant of sin if you sin. John 8:34 and Romans 6:16.

As long as I'm under the Law, yup, that would be correct. Are you still under the Law?

Paul said he served the law of God with his mind (Ro 7:25). Paul also said all things are lawful for him (1Co 6:12; 1Co 10:23).

Well duh the Law is a good example to go by but not because it will save me. I try not to violate the Law, don't want to, but I'm skin and bones right now and well you know, no one's perfect. Oops wait there's at least 2, Elo and that other Guy.

If you are not under the law, then according to what law are you sinning?

Huh??? If I say I'm not under the Law, how am I breaking a Law.

If you claim to sin, it means you are judging yourself according to a law, and it obviously means you are not serving the law of God with your mind, and necessarily means that all things are not lawful for you.

Man you are really confused. Saved by Faith means nothing to you?
Oh yeah James said what is Faith without works. Got it. You go with that and let me know how its working for you. I like Pauls version.



What you are saying is that Jesus didn't sin so you can sin, but homosexuals can't.

Again whaat??? Didn't Jesus take on my sins and nailed them to the cross. Didn't Jesus come to fullfil the Law so that I wouldn't have to? So now I claim that I'm free to sin like drunken sailor and not worry about being cast into Hell because Jesus gave me a stack of get out of jail free cards?



You should cut the sarcasm. You're not good at it, and it makes you appear incapable of rational discussion.

Noted, thanks for caring enough to show me my errors. You do care, right?



No. But you don't understand what Paul taught, and haven't repented yet.

I don't understand what Paul taught? So now I have a reading comprehension problem?
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Yes I see the point. No I would not kick him out of my house because he doesn't believe what I believe. I would kick him out if he were wicked and vile. If he is offensive to God, he's offensive to me. Of course again I would inform him of the errors/consequences of his behaviour and hope he repents and accepts Jesus as his Lord and saviour. If he continues to be wicked and vile then out he goes.

Does that answer your question to your satisfaction?

So you'd kick them out simply for having a homosexual attraction then? Am I reading you correctly? How are you defining 'wicked and vile' exactly? Supposing your grown child told you they were an atheist, what then?
 

elohiym

Well-known member
So Jesus didn't give Paul a different set of rules to give us Gentiles?

No. What "rules" are you eluding to?

As long as I'm under the Law, yup, that would be correct.

I've asked you: How do you sin if you are not under the law?

If you say you sin, obviously you are looking at your thoughts and behaviors, comparing them to some "rule" or "law" and making a judgment based on that standard that you are sinning. That is under the law.

Are you still under the Law?

No.

Well duh the Law is a good example to go by ...

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers ...

Huh??? If I say I'm not under the Law, how am I breaking a Law.

Sin is transgression of the law (1Jo 3:4). How do you sin (you say you still do) without transgressing the law? And how do you transgress a law that you are not supposed to be under and dead to?

Man you are really confused.

You should be as blessed.

Saved by Faith means nothing to you?

Never said that.

Oh yeah James said what is Faith without works. Got it. You go with that and let me know how its working for you. I like Pauls version.

2Pe 3:16 As also in all [Paul's] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Again whaat??? Didn't Jesus take on my sins and nailed them to the cross.

Jesus took away the sins of the world, but you think you still have sin that needs to be taken away, or you have sin that you don't think needs to be taken away. You don't understand how Jesus took away sin or why you should have no sin if you walked by faith instead of sight.

John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Didn't Jesus come to fullfil the Law so that I wouldn't have to?

No. Who told you that lie?

So now I claim that I'm free to sin like drunken sailor and not worry about being cast into Hell because Jesus gave me a stack of get out of jail free cards?

That appears to be what you are arguing. Although you probably think you sin less than a drunken sailor, which would only prove you are self-righteous.

Noted, thanks for caring enough to show me my errors.

You're welcome. :e4e:

You do care, right?

I wouldn't be wasting my time trying to discuss this with you if I didn't care about you.
 
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