toldailytopic: Who is to blame in the Colorado movie theater shooting?

[drbrumley]

tmz.com
July 20, 2012

Colorado movie theater shooter James Holmes was sporting red hair and told people he was “The Joker” when he was apprehended by police Friday morning … this according to NY Police Commissioner Ray Kelly.

During a news conference this afternoon, Kelly said, “We have some information, most of it is public. It clearly looks like a deranged individual. He had his hair painted red, he said he was ‘The Joker,’ obviously the enemy of Batman.”

ABC News is reporting Holmes made the Joker remark to police, not during the shooting.

 

[fool]

I was walking with a Fire Marshall a few projects ago and you know how those Fire Marshalls are about their fire exits.
He told me that they don't really think of them as "fire exits" any more, they're now "emergency relocation portals".
He said that fire is still a concern of course but that things like shooters are what they practice for these days.

Now, who to blame, the shooter, he needs to be burned alive in the center of town at high noon after a week of announcments,
BUT;
After that we have the question; how do we prevent this?
And that's where alot of other people come in, not trying to make the shooter blameless, we already burned him, but if we find out that this guy was in the care of some Doctor that had him on drugs for some mental disorder and ignored a bunch of well known warning signs then keep that gas can handy.
Or not, this shooter seems like an intelligent guy from what i've heard so maybe he was really good at hiding his problem.

I took a public health course in college and they said that you could stamp out a diesese by immunizing 50% of a population against it. If we had more people willing to carry then this guy wouldn't have been able to shoot 82 people, he would have shot some, yes, but not stand there and calmly empty gun after gun after gun.

 

[PureX]

People will and do blame anything and everything other than the direct cause.

If you are not one of them, then I offer my apologies to you.

This does not change that fact that it does and will happen. Even with this case.

There are nearly 350 million people in this country. So I'm sure there are bound to be a few who will think and say all kinds of idiotic things regarding this incident. But they really are a small minority. I'm just as sure that if you asked 100 people who they think is to blame for this shooting, at least 99 of them would say the shooter. I really think you're jousting at windmills, here, claiming that some huge portion of society will be claiming otherwise.

I don't agree with Knight that people are evil. But I do believe we are all a bit crazy. And I do agree that we all have a bit of a dark side to us. But even given that, I'm happy to report that almost all of the people I've met in my lifetime have been kind, generous, thoughtful, considerate, and honest. They surely aren't perfect, but they just as surely aren't evil, either. And I feel pretty sure that they aren't sitting around thinking up excuses for what this pathetic loser did. Most of us know what's right and what's wrong. And most of us are willing to say so.

 

[Alate_One]

Watching live news conference with Colorado police. The shooter used a 100 round drum magazine purchased through the internet for the AR-15.

The police officer said that even in semi automatic mode (the officer did not know if it was an automatic or semiautomatic) he could have gotten off 50-60 rounds within one minute.

 

[PureX]

Just sayin'

 

[fool]

Watching live news conference with Colorado police. The shooter used a 100 round drum magazine purchased through the internet for the AR-15.

Well, that wouldn't have worked on an AK very well, or at all.
So what rifle did the guy have?

The police officer said that even in semi automatic mode (the officer did not know if it was an automatic or semiautomatic) he could have gotten off 50-60 rounds within one minute.

But we know at some point he switched to the shotgun because we have reports of buckshot wounds.

 

[oatmeal]

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That man.

 

[Alate_One]

Well, that wouldn't have worked on an AK very well, or at all.
So what rifle did the guy have?

Was an AR-15. I found a 100 rd. magazine that matched the weapon in question after a single google search.

But we know at some point he switched to the shotgun because we have reports of buckshot wounds.

I'd imagine you can go through 100 rounds pretty quickly.

 

[Alate_One]

Just sayin'

Not quite a fair comparison given the vastly larger US population but yes our murder rate due to firearms is out of control (about 10X that of other industrialized/high income nations).

 

[PureX]

Not quite a fair comparison given the vastly larger US population but yes our murder rate due to firearms is out of control (about 10X that of other industrialized/high income nations).

We have roughly 350 million people in the U.S., Australia has roughly 35 million. So, if we compensate for the difference in population, we are killing 1,000 times more of our people than they are killing of theirs. And when you equalize the numbers for all those other countries, you get about the same result.

And what do many Americans think is the solution to this enormous discrepancy in gun deaths? MORE GUNS!

I'm just sayin'

 

[john w]

So who's really to blame?

The shooter of course. He planned, prepared, and carried out his murderous vision.

But why did he do it?

Because people are evil. Some say people are inherently good, but that's not true. We live in a fallen world and people are inherently evil and wicked. And as a society we contribute to the wickedness of people by failing to have a godly justice system, by devaluing human life via abortion, euthanasia, and the acceptance of suicide. We teach kids that they evolved from slime and that they really are no different than a animal. We teach kids that there is no morality and there is no such thing as right and wrong. It's these confusing and immoral signals that help contribute to these acts of evil.

But in the end... each man is responsible for his or her own actions therefore the blame lies fully with the perpetrator of the crime.

Gen. 5:3 KJV
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

Survey early Genesis="after his/its own kind"-like father, like son....

Gen. 6:5 KJV
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.


Genesis 8:21 KJV
And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

Jer. 17:9 KJV
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

End of thread-RIP.

 

[Nang]

Gen. 5:3 KJV
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

="after his own kind"-like father, like son....

Gen. 6:5 KJV
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.


Genesis 8:21 KJV
And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

Jer. 17:9 KJV
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

End of thread-RIP.

Right.

This is the basic revelation of the doctrine of Total Depravity.

 

[john w]

Right.

This is the basic revelation of the doctrine of Total Depravity.

No, Clavinists define "Total Depravity" as "Inability to believe." Scripture knows no such concept, despite your spinning like a top to "prove" otherwise.


With me? Good. Stay on topic, Nag, and refrain from your public disservice announcement of Clavinist "doctrine."


With me again? Better.

 

[Alate_One]

We have roughly 350 million people in the U.S., Australia has roughly 35 million. So, if we compensate for the difference in population, we are killing 1,000 times more of our people than they are killing of theirs. And when you equalize the numbers for all those other countries, you get about the same results.

A fairer comparison might be Canada, which has about the same population as Australia but somewhat more liberal gun laws (though still stricter than ours).

The comparison there is the US rate is "only" five times the Canadian rate.

And what do many Americans think is the solution to this enormous discrepancy? MORE GUNS!

I'm just sayin'

Indeed, I think using guns to solve gun violence is nonsensical. However the reasons for our high murder rate I think are more than JUST than relatively easy availability of guns. It certainly doesn't help.

From hearing about the case I think magazine size controls make a lot of sense. Both Canada and Australia limit magazine sizes to around 5 -10 rounds.

 

[Lighthouse]

Ultimately, the shooter, but this does not mean that the people and the theater can't or shouldn't be prepared for violence like this.

Imagine if a responsible gun owner was sitting on the very front row of the theater and responded quickly and appropriately when the shooter shot the ceiling.

An armed society is a safe society.

:thumb:

A society that tolerates and even promotes guns more like. lain:

So this kind of thing happened more regularly when guns were more accessible, several decades ago?

Oh, wait, no, they didn't.

Except that the shooter was wearing BODY ARMOR.

Even my father-in-law, probably the most passionate gun-ownership advocate on the planet, wouldn't have stood a chance with the .45 revolver he sleeps with.

Or are you advocating that each of us go through our daily routine wearing HKMP7s on our belts?

Why not?

Conservative answer of who's to blame...

- liberal excuses

I have no problems with gun ownership.
Especially my father-in-law's collection of frontiersman rifles.

What confuses me is how many of the NRA-ish people I've known do not just support a RIGHT to bear arms, but seem to advocate a MANDATE to bear them.

Which, if that advocacy came to fruition, we would see something akin to Frank Miller's Sin City, where law enforcement would become paramilitary due to the necessity of maintaining oversight on a heavily armed population.

You're an idiot.

When the populace is armed to the teeth you don't need a paramilitary police force to protect and defend the law-abiding; they can take care of themselves.

And then the church fumbles the ball by saying things like....

- This is all part of God's plan
- God works in mysterious ways
- God needed the victims in heaven
- We shouldn't judge the shooter
- We need to forgive the shooter
- We shouldn't put the shooter to death because God doesn't like the death penalty.

All of those things are the opposite of what God says in His word.

Mainstream Christianity fumbles in crisis when it could/should be there as a positive healing force in the community.

Tragic.

Indeed.

Is the shooter connected to a group? Did someone pump him full of drugs? Did someone deny him some drug that he needed to stay sane?

Who's denying you the drugs that keep you sane?

There are reasons why the system is designed to work the way it does. You don't like it, too bad.

The system doesn't work.

Warner Brothers and DC Comics?

Don't forget Legendary Pictures and Syncopy.

 

[Tambora]

Just sayin'

I wonder how many of those were dead bad guys who were robbing, mugging, rapping, or shooting up a crowded theater.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

I heard something quite interesting once that the role of the Joker is, in itself, a bit cursed.

Jack Nicholson said that the role messed with his mind a bit. Because of how demanding it is for one to be authentic and true to being the Joker, he had a hard time distancing his role from his general lifestyle.
And then, Heath Ledger sort of went through the same thing. Then he died.

The Joker has become a major cult favorite among younger generations today. I guess because so many people were impressed by Ledger's performance, the character got a bit sensationalized. It really isn't but so surprising that a Joker wannabe would jump off the deep end.

 

[Lighthouse]

I wonder how many of those were dead bad guys who were robbing, mugging, rapping, or shooting up a crowded theater.

Yes, because rap is mostly replete with the glorification of these societal ills.

I know it was a typo, but it makes a bit of a point, does it not?

 

[This Charming Manc]

Get some stats I think very few......

I wonder how many of those were dead bad guys who were robbing, mugging, rapping, or shooting up a crowded theater.

 

[eameece]

The American people are to blame for all these incidents, because they fail to do anything about gun control. Also, in general, the American idolatry of violence and our loneliness/alienation, and the emptiness of our culture. Well, of course, the guy himself too.