toldailytopic: What is the American Dream? And is it still attainable?

Nathon Detroit

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for July 17th, 2012 11:43 AM


toldailytopic: What is the American Dream? And is it still attainable?






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Alate_One

Well-known member
The American Dream, I think as most people understand it is being able to better yourself through hard work and dedication.

That could be that educationally, financially, personally.

But most of the time it is construed financially, especially the idea of coming to the country or being born with nothing and becoming well off financially.

Today the American dream is attainable but it is under many threats. Primary among them is low wages for middle class jobs, high tuition costs for higher education, poor high schools and the assumption of poor schooling by employers and lack of training programs by employers.

Social mobility (which essentially is the American Dream) is lower here than in other western countries. In places like Germany, most companies have apprenticeship programs. Here, companies assume that if they invest in training a person they will go work for someone else and thus want people to pay for their own education. Changing the philosophy of both the private and public sectors will help us return to a more socially mobile state.

Government has a strong role to play in Rebuilding the Dream, as does public advocacy.
 

eameece

New member
The old American Dream has been a nightmare for some time. It is merely a material ambition to be wealthy enough to buy a house, perhaps even though you were poor or an immigrant. Now, even accepting this as a valid dream-- since we all need at least a basic standard of living-- it is a nightmare today because of the trickle-down ideology that Republicans believe in and propagate, so that government regulations are torn down that protect us from speculators and robber barons, and taxes are lowered on the rich and raised on everyone else in hopes that what the creepy "job creaters" do will trickle-down; and prices for housing, education, health care, food and gas rise faster than wages, since businessmen and corporate CEOs are allowed to keep most of the money a company earns for themselves rather than share it with their workers or society. I thought your statement was good, Alate.

But beyond this dream of survival and prosperity, there is a greater dream that people like Joseph Campbell have tried to instill into our culture; the dream of following your dream, of doing the things you love, and which contribute in a fulfilling way to others, and to never say never. This dream is to have a true vocation, a real calling from God or Spirit, to manifest your god-given talents instead of wasting away as a wage-slave or a housewife forever. To experience inspiration and to share it. That is the true American Dream, the new Dream for the new age. Many cultural creatives are fulfilling it.
 

vegascowboy

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
The American Dream, I think as most people understand it is being able to better yourself through hard work and dedication.

That could be that educationally, financially, personally.

But most of the time it is construed financially, especially the idea of coming to the country or being born with nothing and becoming well off financially.

Today the American dream is attainable but it is under many threats. Primary among them is low wages for middle class jobs, high tuition costs for higher education, poor high schools and the assumption of poor schooling by employers and lack of training programs by employers.

Social mobility (which essentially is the American Dream) is lower here than in other western countries. In places like Germany, most companies have apprenticeship programs. Here, companies assume that if they invest in training a person they will go work for someone else and thus want people to pay for their own education. Changing the philosophy of both the private and public sectors will help us return to a more socially mobile state.

Government has a strong role to play in Rebuilding the Dream, as does public advocacy.

In what way?
 

Newman

New member
The American Dream is to get as much stuff as possible, which, in the long run, seems more like a nightmare than a dream to me.

Contentment with what possessions you have, enjoying life as a blessing from God and enjoying God for who he is is more attainable and fulfilling and longer-lasting (indeed--eternal).
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
This dream is to have a true vocation, a real calling from God or Spirit, to manifest your god-given talents instead of wasting away as a wage-slave or a housewife forever.

I had no idea that when I stayed home to raise my children that not only was I wasting away, but it wasn't a real calling. Thank God nobody warned me ahead of time.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
The American Dream is to get as much stuff as possible, which, in the long run, seems more like a nightmare than a dream to me.


I don't think it was always that way - I think particularly in some generations, to many immigrants the American Dream meant freedom; not only physical, but ideological, creative, religious.

It seems like it's not so much that any more.

Contentment with what possessions you have, enjoying life as a blessing from God and enjoying God for who he is is more attainable and fulfilling and longer-lasting (indeed--eternal).
There was once the idea of "use it up, wear it out, make do or do without" but today everything is disposable. Including things and people and ideas which were never meant to be.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
The American Dream, I think as most people understand it is being able to better yourself through hard work and dedication.

That could be that educationally, financially, personally.

But most of the time it is construed financially, especially the idea of coming to the country or being born with nothing and becoming well off financially.

Today the American dream is attainable but it is under many threats. Primary among them is low wages for middle class jobs, high tuition costs for higher education, poor high schools and the assumption of poor schooling by employers and lack of training programs by employers.

Social mobility (which essentially is the American Dream) is lower here than in other western countries. In places like Germany, most companies have apprenticeship programs. Here, companies assume that if they invest in training a person they will go work for someone else and thus want people to pay for their own education. Changing the philosophy of both the private and public sectors will help us return to a more socially mobile state.

Government has a strong role to play in Rebuilding the Dream, as does public advocacy.

Seems Ron Paul understood your way is nonsense.

Zero Down for the American Dream

by Rep. Ron Paul, MD


The House Financial Services committee on which I serve often passes legislation that wastes taxpayer dollars, harms the economy, and egregiously violates the Constitution. The “Zero Downpayment Act” recently passed by the committee is a striking example of a bill that does all three.

This legislation is considered completely noncontroversial by both political parties, and will breeze through the full congress later this summer with the blessing of the administration. Nobody in Washington thinks twice about another welfare scheme that further entrenches the something-for-nothing mentality so prevalent today in America.

The Zero Downpayment Act, as its names suggests, creates a federal program that allows some homebuyers to obtain federally-insured mortgages without making a down payment. “Federally-insured” really means taxpayer-insured, as taxpayers like you foot the bill for defaults. So while Congress congratulates itself on yet another program that supposedly helps the poor, it is taxpayers who pay for the inevitable defaults.

Every mortgage banker knows that even a modest downpayment greatly increases the likelihood that a buyer will pay his mortgage as promised. A buyer who has consistently saved money for a down payment is by definition a better credit risk, and it's harder to walk away from an obligation if it means losing a sizable amount of hard-earned money. A downpayment measures a buyer's willingness and ability to make sacrifices in order to reach a goal and improve his standard of living. Banks used to recognize hard work and thrift as indicators of creditworthiness, and in a free market would demand a significant down payment for virtually all homebuyers.

But as with all federal intervention in the economy, housing welfare distorts the mortgage industry and makes ordinary Americans poorer. Banks, of course, love federal mortgage programs — after all, the risk of default is transferred to American taxpayers. The lending mortgage banks get paid whether homebuyers default or not, and what business wouldn't love having the federal government guarantee the profitability of its ventures? Between the Federal Housing Administration, which is the largest insurer of mortgages in the world, and the government-created Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac corporations, the mortgage market is hopelessly distorted. Millions of mortgages in this country are federally insured, and the tax bill for defaults could be astronomical if the housing bubble bursts.

Despite the congressional rhetoric about helping the poor, federal housing policies often harm poor people by pushing them into houses they may not be ready to buy. Given the realities of insurance, property taxes, maintenance, and repairs, many low-income buyers lose their homes and destroy their credit ratings. Easy credit and low interest rates, courtesy of the Federal Reserve, have dramatically increased housing demand and artificially increased prices. Zero down payment schemes do the same thing by pushing renters into the housing market. This increased demand actually serves to price many poor Americans out of the housing market indefinitely.

The American dream cannot be lived courtesy of taxpayer handouts. The experience of working hard, saving for a downpayment, and buying a home is the essence of the true American dream. Eventually the beneficiaries of government programs stop thinking of themselves as independent citizens, and start viewing themselves as wards of the state. It is impossible to maintain a free society when more and more people look to the state to provide what Americans used to provide for themselves.

June 22, 2004
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
That was written while the housing bubble was still growing. In fact, at about the height of it, if I recall correctly.
 

ragTagblues

New member
Isn't the American Dream suppose to be just that - A dream. I understood it was meant to be elusive and something to always work towards!

Hey what do I know, what with being English and as such having little hope for anything but a little sunshine tomorrow.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
That was written while the housing bubble was still growing. In fact, at about the height of it, if I recall correctly.

Yep, and this back in 1994 with both parties spending like drunken sailors. Shoot, they still spend like drunken sailors.

He nailed it then as he nails it now. I sincerly believe he was our last shot at getting back to the American Dream. :rip: America
 

fool

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
The dream used to be a 9 to 5 with benifits and weekends at the lake house.
Now any month you make the mortgage is dreamy for alot of people.
This internet thing has accelerated the balancing of the wealth, anyone can compete with you at any time, and they do.
We live in interesting times.
 

Alate_One

Well-known member
In what way?

Probably the most important thing the US government needs to do is to return the country to actual democracy rather than plutocracy, by regulating corporate contributions and making other reforms.

We need to regulate businesses in such a way that unfair practices like the LIBOR scandal are minimized.

Government's role is to keep the rich from holding the poor back. Stop taxing dividends and capital gains at a rate that is lower than people who actually work for a living. Those tax rates alone are totally antithetical to the American Dream. Stop the assault on unions. Promote more profit sharing with employees. Expand health coverage for everyone and remove it from being a benefit of employment, since many people are one illness away from bankruptcy. It's burdensome on businesses to have to worry about health coverage for their employees.

In general, I agree with these steps
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Apparently not.

Average Canadian is now richer than the average American


If we can't even be richer than Canadians......

:mock: 'Merica


I love the last line of your linked article:

The major reasons for Canada’s economic triumph over its neighbor to the south, it seems, are rooted in the 2008 recession that rocked the United States’ economy and collapsed its housing market. American house prices plunged, and now Canadian real estate holds more value. And that’s not even taking into account the recent spike in Justin Bieber-inspired tourism.

:chuckle:
 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
I love the last line of your linked article:

The major reasons for Canada’s economic triumph over its neighbor to the south, it seems, are rooted in the 2008 recession that rocked the United States’ economy and collapsed its housing market. American house prices plunged, and now Canadian real estate holds more value. And that’s not even taking into account the recent spike in Justin Bieber-inspired tourism.

:chuckle:

:chuckle:

Teenage girls (and by that I mean their parents) are pouring money into Canadia's economy. :greedy:
 

Son of Jack

New member
The American Dream is to get as much stuff as possible, which, in the long run, seems more like a nightmare than a dream to me.

Contentment with what possessions you have, enjoying life as a blessing from God and enjoying God for who he is is more attainable and fulfilling and longer-lasting (indeed--eternal).

Proverbs 30:7-9

Two things I ask of you;
deny them not to me before I die:
Remove far from me falsehood and lying;
give me neither poverty nor riches;
feed me with the food that is needful for me,
lest I be full and deny you
and say, “Who is the LORD?”
or lest I be poor and steal
and profane the name of my God.
 

Buzzword

New member
Another issue hindering the success of the American Dream (independent of one's personal definition) is the education power creep.

Wikipedia's definition of the term:
Power creep

A century ago, to have even a full grammar school education was rare, and individuals who did possess it were usually from financially well-off families because they could wait longer for the child to start working.

Over the last fifty years, high school diplomas, Associate's Degrees, and Bachelor's Degrees have gradually become economically impotent, where in previous years these were indications of potential for GODLIKE earnings.

Now a guy with an M.A. works a job that a B.A. was working when he started college.

My generation was raised on the idea THAT going to college (not the particular university, not the degree) was the key to that mystic totem known throughout the cosmos as the FULL-TIME JOB.

Since I graduated high school, the priority has shifted from THAT you go to college to WHAT you get at college.

At this rate, soon it won't matter WHAT your degree is in so much as WHERE you go it, the reputation of the university taking precedent over the individual's actual education.

...to say nothing of actual SKILLS, which dropped beneath the bottom level of the priority pillar when companies decided that an employee's worth could be measured by an "objective" measurement, the degree.
 
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