toldailytopic: What do you suppose God thinks of the Catholic Church?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
Its just hard to take a blowhard bigot narcissist seriously when you understand their issues. There isn't a pill, but there is help.
Christ is the head.
God was on the mountain.
Tod spoke through Moses, angel of the lord, prophets,*****, priesthoods, to man.
the head sends its message through the neck, then the vertebrae and then to the appendages where the body's operations are most visible.
God works through the church.
the church prepares the people for works of service.
Works of service produce, unity, knowledge in Christ, and telioo, perfection, maturity, even as full, as much, spiritual maturity as Christ had.
Do you find anywhere in the bible it shows post resurrection maturity close to that level any way but through church leadership?
Most likely you will say no one will be as mature as christ. Which means we flat out disregard the Bible's words as it directly contradicts.
Or you will quote the pastoral letters which are written to men of authority over area churches as their guide or teacher.
I anxiously await.
My dilemma is, the catholic position seems to be more Catholic than protestant and i can't reconcile some issues with the Catholics if they are the Catholic church. Capitals on Catholic deliberate. As is smaller case C's for same word.
Let the reader decide.each: Understand the difference :freak: between ability and desire. :mario:
:noway: You’re projecting again. :dizzy:
You've already demonstrated that you aren't interested in God's word (Eph 4:14, Ps 17:4). You have no integrity and you are an antichrist (1 Jn 4:2-6). link
If everything you believed were wrong, would you want to know? :smokie:
Seriously, even the other anti Catholics on the board see through your blustery posing. Who do you think you are proving anything to? You are posturing for something, but who's buying the posture?
I don't think there is anyone on the board who will say your conversations or out of love, nor out of anything altruistic. Everyone sees you for who you are. Why not try a new game.
Hell i have serious issues with RCC but your blind and arrogant attacks are making them sem much closer to the truth than you are. If i wasnt as knowledgable as o am yoyou would have converted me to rcc to avoid association with you.
Let the reader decide.
:noway: You’re projecting again. :dizzy:
You've already demonstrated that you aren't interested in God's word (Eph 4:14, Ps 17:4). You have no integrity and you are an antichrist (1 Jn 4:2-6). link
If everything you believed were wrong, would you want to know? :smokie:
Seriously, even the other anti Catholics on the board see through your blustery posing. Who do you think you are proving anything to? You are posturing for something, but who's buying the posture?
I don't think there is anyone on the board who will say your conversations or out of love, nor out of anything altruistic. Everyone sees you for who you are. Why not try a new game.
Hell i have serious issues with RCC but your blind and arrogant attacks are making them sem much closer to the truth than you are. If i wasn't as knowledgable as i am you would have converted me to rcc to avoid association with you.
What? Women are from venus, men are from Mars, and you reside in Uranus. Hmong sequitur? Who brought up one or more Gospels. Regardless claiming the Gospel is grace alone ignores the biggest parts of the Gospel.
I wonder why paying. Said, theological arguments aren't important,
But
Faith
Working
Through
Love
Is!
You have loud opinions that make you feel important, but you have not love, and thus you miss the Gospel. There are atheists with more godly love than you demonstrate, and thus are closer to God than you. 1 john 4:16, Matt 5:43-48.
Why would I do that? :idunno: Let the reader decide.
each: :noway: You're projecting again. :dizzy: Eph 4:14
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Cruciform
New member
If you could have, you would have---and until you do, you simply show yourself to be a public liar (Prov. 19:5).
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Why would I go through each of your posts? :smokie:
Let the reader decide.
each: Cruci-form-of-a-form-of- godliness-but-denying-its-power posts 2 Ti 3:5Proof please.
each: You've shown that you aren't interested in God's word (Eph 4:14, Ps 17:4). You have no integrity and you are an antichrist (1 Jn 4:2-6). link
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You are such a poseur.
I've nailed you in more than a couple fallacies. Pointed them out. Know how you replied to them?
" :grave: "
You said nothing, you just checked out. You are as intellectually honest water is dry.
I've nailed you in more than a couple fallacies. Pointed them out. Know how you replied to them?
" :grave: "
You said nothing, you just checked out. You are as intellectually honest water is dry.
Why would I go through each of your posts? :smokie:
Let the reader decide.
Proof please.
You've shown that you aren't interested in God's word (Eph 4:14, Ps 17:4). You have no integrity and you are an antichrist (1 Jn 4:2-6). link
Why would I do that? :idunno: Let the reader decide.
:noway: You're projecting again. :dizzy: Eph 4:14
You are such an idiot.
Your eph 4 vs has nothing to do with what is said.
Do you just search for a key word and post it with NO understanding of the verse?
The eph 4:14 person you reference, is one who is as SPIRITUALLY MATURE AS CHRIST IN EVERY WAY!
You gonna sit there and posture like that's you?
Actually you probably will.
Krsto
Well-known member
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Originally Posted by IXOYE
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You are right in saying we don’t know if he acted or not. But by the same token we don’t know if he felt he had authority or not. Someone can make a lot of noise who has no official authority. I do it all the time. What we can say is he though it a good idea to expose Diotrephes for who he was and let the chips fall as they may. If he had done as Paul where after founding a church he would have turned it over to the elders and “commended them to God,” meaning let God take care of them, then he would trust God to take of the situation while providing any input as people were willing to receive. His only real obligation was to the truth. Had he had the authority you think he had he could have just fired him from Patmos. He wouldn’t need to wait.
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1 Clement was not written to the bishop at Corinth. There was no bishop at Corinth. The letter was written to the church as a whole.
Unlike Ignatius (if memory serves), Clement equates bishop and elder, that is, they are the same ministry, which agrees with the New Testament, but is contrary to Catholic doctrine.
Clement affirms congregational affirmation of elders, which HisServant and I believe in, which is also seen in scripture at Acts 14:23 (as a potential interpretation, at least).
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Yes, Paul trained people and told those he trained to train others. Again, this supports my (biblical) model of church polity.
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:e4e: My point is a constitutional democratic republic is more biblical than a lot of church governments.
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You must be referring to authoritarian hierarchical churches because in elder led churches the people do have recourse.
That is NOT how God set up church government to protect the sheep. Government of the people, by the people, and for the people is a biblical principle.
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Egalitarianism recognizes all men are created equal and the Holy Spirit resides with the people, not just appointed leaders.
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When the church was given the Holy Spirit at Pentecost a church "service" took on a whole different dimension than what they were used to at the synagogue. But it seems the Catholic church has gone back to what they were used to.
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You don’t need to have a position of authority to pastor or oversee. Let me give you an example. A church I had visited a few times bought a building and had a work party to remodel it. Since I knew they needed help with painting I volunteered. I walk in, oversee the situation, give a lot of advice as a professional painter, they follow my advice and before long, the pastor and the guy in charge of the building, and all the painters are coming to me asking what to do and what to do next. Did I have to be appointed as Bishop of Paint in order to do that? No, it just happens because of ability, wisdom, etc. Same for the Council of Jerusalem. People listen to those they trust, admire, and believe have the Holy Spirit working through them. Those kind of people can say, “My decision is this . . .” My broker is E.F. Hutton and when E.F. Hutton speaks, everybody listens. Why? Because he’s good at what he does. Notice also at the Council of Jerusalem the decisions where approved by the Holy Spirit, the elders, AND THE PEOPLE. It just wasn’t one man making a decree and that’s that. And no, the OT form of government was fine for that covenant since they (generally) didn’t have the Holy Spirit but once the Holy Spirit is given to the church at Pentecost they are in a New Covenant which requires a new way to govern. You can’t put new wine in old wineskins. The old wineskin can’t hold it very well.
Originally Posted by IXOYE
Oh yeah. :doh:
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You are right in saying we don’t know if he acted or not. But by the same token we don’t know if he felt he had authority or not. Someone can make a lot of noise who has no official authority. I do it all the time. What we can say is he though it a good idea to expose Diotrephes for who he was and let the chips fall as they may. If he had done as Paul where after founding a church he would have turned it over to the elders and “commended them to God,” meaning let God take care of them, then he would trust God to take of the situation while providing any input as people were willing to receive. His only real obligation was to the truth. Had he had the authority you think he had he could have just fired him from Patmos. He wouldn’t need to wait.
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1 Clement was not written to the bishop at Corinth. There was no bishop at Corinth. The letter was written to the church as a whole.
Unlike Ignatius (if memory serves), Clement equates bishop and elder, that is, they are the same ministry, which agrees with the New Testament, but is contrary to Catholic doctrine.
Clement affirms congregational affirmation of elders, which HisServant and I believe in, which is also seen in scripture at Acts 14:23 (as a potential interpretation, at least).
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Sure, but their job was over when the church had its elders. They brought up, then stepped aside.
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You’re saying exactly what I’ve been trying to tell you. A church planter has lots of influence, even after he leaves and commends the eldership to God. The Holy Spirit uses people to speak to people and those with certain gifts are more effective. Beyond the gifting, a church planter has built trust and laid down his life for the sheep. You don’t need to have any official authority over a church to be able to influence them. Even if you do have official authority you are going to be a lot more effective if you rely on relationship building rather than position to influence.
Yes, Paul trained people and told those he trained to train others. Again, this supports my (biblical) model of church polity.
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:e4e: My point is a constitutional democratic republic is more biblical than a lot of church governments.
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You must be referring to authoritarian hierarchical churches because in elder led churches the people do have recourse.
That is NOT how God set up church government to protect the sheep. Government of the people, by the people, and for the people is a biblical principle.
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Egalitarianism recognizes all men are created equal and the Holy Spirit resides with the people, not just appointed leaders.
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You mean they read the whole bible to the people every 2.5 years . . . because the people can’t read it for themselves? That pales in comparison to the churches I’ve been in. You must be talking about the Lukewarm Lutherans.
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That depends on how you define sarx or what you attribute to sarx. Not being able to receive of or from the Spirit is sarx as well.
When the church was given the Holy Spirit at Pentecost a church "service" took on a whole different dimension than what they were used to at the synagogue. But it seems the Catholic church has gone back to what they were used to.
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They only went to the synagogue to preach the Gospel. If a church copies the synagogue service it is because they do not know how to be led of the Holy Spirit.
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You think it’s supposed to be easy to get everybody back to the Promised Land by having them follow the cloud and pillar of fire? After camping for a time they would wake in the morning to find the cloud had moved on but some of them liked where they were so stayed behind while the rest followed the cloud. That’s a picture of God leading Christians from Luther to the end when he has restored biblical Christianity. Lots of divisions along the way. Don’t blame the Protestants, blame those who created a need for the Reformation.
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In the pastoral letters Paul never addressed a “bishop” because his churches didn’t have one or “the pastor” because that position did not exist. He established elders to whom he gave the job of pastoring and overseeing the church. That’s what the word “bishop” means, it comes from episkopos, one who oversees, that is, looks out over something and provides correction based on his expertise. This is clearly seen in his farewell address to the elders at Ephesus (Acts 20:28): Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost (notice who made them overseers) hath made you overseers (episkopos, bishops, plural), to feed (from the word to pastor) the church of God (notice who got Peter’s job to feed), which he hath purchased with his own blood.
You don’t need to have a position of authority to pastor or oversee. Let me give you an example. A church I had visited a few times bought a building and had a work party to remodel it. Since I knew they needed help with painting I volunteered. I walk in, oversee the situation, give a lot of advice as a professional painter, they follow my advice and before long, the pastor and the guy in charge of the building, and all the painters are coming to me asking what to do and what to do next. Did I have to be appointed as Bishop of Paint in order to do that? No, it just happens because of ability, wisdom, etc. Same for the Council of Jerusalem. People listen to those they trust, admire, and believe have the Holy Spirit working through them. Those kind of people can say, “My decision is this . . .” My broker is E.F. Hutton and when E.F. Hutton speaks, everybody listens. Why? Because he’s good at what he does. Notice also at the Council of Jerusalem the decisions where approved by the Holy Spirit, the elders, AND THE PEOPLE. It just wasn’t one man making a decree and that’s that. And no, the OT form of government was fine for that covenant since they (generally) didn’t have the Holy Spirit but once the Holy Spirit is given to the church at Pentecost they are in a New Covenant which requires a new way to govern. You can’t put new wine in old wineskins. The old wineskin can’t hold it very well.
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Have we met? :idunno:
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Cruciform
New member
You stated earlier that it would be harder to find a post where I didn't do as you claimed. So it should be exceedingly easy for you to cite just one of my posts to back up your claim. And until you do, you merely show yourself to be a public liar.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
It isn't a matter ease. Why would you like me to do this? I'm just not feelin' it. :idunno: Eph 4:14
| ”Drake Sprite Commercial" | |
:noway: You’re projecting again. :dizzy:
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Cruciform
New member
English, please...? :AMR:
To demonstrate---rather than merely assert---the truth of your posted claim about me. Until you do, you merely show yourself to be a public liar.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Ease. Noun: Absence of difficulty or effort: "he gave up tobacco with ease".
I doubt it. Sorry, still just not feelin' it. Eph 4:14
Proof please.
each: Eph 4:14
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Cruciform
New member
Poor serpent...so completely and hopelessly without a single clue... :hammer:Ease.Noun:Absence of difficulty or effort:"he gave up tobacco with ease".I doubt it.Sorry, still just not feelin' it.Eph 4:14Proof please.
Moving on... :yawn:
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Cruciform
New member
Nope, since I wasn't offering it as an argument, but merely as an observation based on past precedent. Same thing with my observation that you're a public liar.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+