toldailytopic: The Rapture: do you believe such an event will take place? Why, or why

Cruciform

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The Rapture: do you believe such an event will take place? Why, or why not?
In a very specific sense, yes:



The Rapture

1 Thess. 4:16-17 - Paul writes that "we will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." Many Protestants call this experience the "rapture" (even though the word "rapture" is not found in the Bible, although is derived from the Latin vulgate of this verse – “rapiemur”). John 14:3; 1 Cor. 15:52 - these are other passages that Protestants use to support the rapture experience. The question Protestantism has raised is “when will the rapture occur?” They have developed three theories – (1) post-tribulation; (2) pre-tribulation; and, (3) mid-tribulation. We address these theories later on. But first, here is some more background.

Rev. 20:2-3; 7-8 – John sees the vision of an angel who seizes satan and binds him for a period of a thousand years. Protestants generally call this period of a thousand years the “millennium.” The “millennium” is a harbinger of the end of the world, and the theories of when the “rapture” will occur center around this period of time. We should also note that the “thousand years” language is part of apocalyptic literature and should not be interpreted literally. For example, in Psalm 50:10, we see the cattle on a "thousand hills." The word "thousand" here obviously means a lot of hills. In Dan. 7:10, a "thousand thousands" served him. Again, "thousand" means a lot. In 2 Peter 3:8, with God one day is a "thousand" years and a "thousand" years is one day. "Thousand" is symbolic for a long time. It is not to be taken literally.

There are three ways that Protestants interpret the meaning of the thousand year “millennium” (and the interpretation leads to answering when they think the rapture will occur).
(1) Post-millennialism – this view interprets the “thousand years” as a very long time. This view also holds that God’s kingdom is being advanced in the world by His grace and the world will eventually be Christianized. Then Christ will return at the close of this period during a time of righteousness and peace. The problem with this view is that the Scriptures do not teach that the world will be even relatively Christianized before the Second Coming. For example, in Matt. 13:24-30;36-43, Jesus says the wicked and the righteous will co-exist until the end of the world, when they will be judged, and either inherit eternal life, or be thrown into eternal fire.

(2) Pre-millenialism (also called “millenarianism”) – like post-millennialists, this view also interprets the “thousand years” as a golden age on earth when the world will be Christianized. But they believe that this period will occur after Christ’s second coming, during which time Christ will reign physically on earth. They believe the Final Judgment occurs when the millennium is over. But Scripture does not teach that there is a thousand year span between the Second Coming and Final Judgment. Instead, Jesus said that when He comes a second time in glory, He will immediately repay every man for what he has done. Matt. 16:27. When Jesus comes, He will separate the sheep from the goats and render judgment. Matt. 25:31-46. There is nothing about any period of time between His coming and final judgment.

(3) Amillennialism – this view also interprets the “thousand years” symbolically, but, unlike the pre and post views, not as a golden age on earth. This view believes the millennium is the period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on earth through His Church. This is because the saints who reign with Christ and to whom judgment has been committed are said to be on their thrones in heaven. Rev. 20:4; cf. 4:4; 11:16. During this time, satan is bound and cannot hinder the spread of the gospel. Rev. 20:3. This is why, they explain, Jesus teaches the necessity of binding the “strong man” (satan) in order to plunder his house and rescue people from his grip. Matt. 12:29. This is also why, after the disciples preached the gospel and rejoiced that the demons were even subject to them, Jesus declared, “I saw satan fall like lightening from heaven.” Luke 10:18. Nevertheless, during this period, the world will not be entirely Christianized because satan, though bound, is still in some sense able to prowl around and attack souls. cf. 1 Peter 5:8. Of the three, this position is most consistent with Catholic teaching (the pre and post-millennium views have been rejected by the Church).
2 Thess. 2:1-4 – concerning the Second Coming of Christ, Scripture teaches (and most Protestants believe) that Christ’s coming will be preceded by a time of rebellion, lawlessness and persecution. Protestants often refer to this period as the “tribulation” (although the word “tribulation” cannot be found in the Scripture passages Protestants use to support the “rapture”). So the question is, when will the 1 Thess. 4:16-17 “rapture” occur, in light of the tribulation and Christ’s Second Coming? Here are the three theories previously mentioned:
(1) Post-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur right after the tribulation and immediately before the Second Coming of Christ. This view can be consistent with Scripture and Catholic teaching to the extent it holds that the rapture and Christ’s Second Coming occur together, after the tribulation and the Church Militant on earth. See, for example, Matt. 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thess. 1:1-12.

(2) Pre-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur before the tribulation. The problem with this view is that it requires three comings of Christ – first, when He was born in Bethlehem; second, when He returns for the rapture before the tribulation; third, when He returns at the end of the tribulation and establishes the millennium. Scripture rejects three comings of Christ. In Heb. 9:28, it is clear that Christ will appear a second and final time, when he comes in glory to save us. This view also is inconsistent with Matt. 24:24-31; Mark 13:24-27; and 2 Thess. 2:1-12 where the rapture and the Second Coming occur together.

(3) Mid-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur during the middle of the tribulation. The problem with this view is that it also requires three comings of Christ – first, when He was born in Bethlehem; second, when He returns for the rapture during the middle of the tribulation; third, when He returns at the end of the tribulation and establishes the millennium. As seen in Heb. 9:28, Scripture rejects three comings of Christ. The view is also inconsistent with Matt. 24:24-31; Mark. 13:24-27; and 2 Thess. 2:1-12.​
2 Peter 3:8-15 – instead of worrying about when the rapture will occur, Christians should follow Peter’s instruction to repent of their sins, live lives of holiness and godliness, be zealous and at peace, and wait for the Lord’s coming with forbearance and joy!


http://www.scripturecatholic.com/second_coming.html



Gaudium de veritate,

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Psalmist

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toldailytopic: The Rapture: do you believe such an event will take place?
Why, or why not?

Do I believe there'll be a rapture? Yes. It's what I call the gathering away.
Why? Thessalonians 4:13-18, that's what I believe.
 

Letsargue

New member
1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,



The concept of being changed without dying first was a mystery.


Ok, He showed you a mystery??? - Tell us then in your own words what he said!! - You can't!!! - Therefore there was no mystery revealed.

Paul -- 092012
 

Angel4Truth

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for September 20th, 2012 10:17 AM


toldailytopic: The Rapture: do you believe such an event will take place? Why, or why not?


Yes, i believe that is an event that will take place - i believe the bible speaks about it, Daniels 70th week has not occurred yet (tribulation period designed to bring Israel back to God and is a time of judgment on the earth, it is not for the church - but for Israel- and will begin when the time of the gentiles has been finished,the events in revelation have not yet occurred either, Christ hasn't returned yet, the millennial reign has not happened and Armageddon hasn't happened.

The bible also says in the end it will be as the says of noah and lot - noahs family was removed before judgment came and lot and his family was removed, i believe the church will also be removed.

I could literally go on and on about my biblical reasoning here. (Hebrew wedding custom for example - the bride is hidden away in the Fathers house for 7 days with the groom during the wedding feast - the 7 days correspond to the final 7 days(years) of Daniels 70 weeks prophecy - we are the "bride" of Christ and will be in heaven with our groom during the tribulation period - removed when our groom to be stands outside (calls from the clouds) and calls for us to go and meet him (rapture) Those of us of course who have oil in our lamps (the holy spirit- those who are saved)

So much bible prophecy has come to pass also that there simply isnt any reason in my mind to believe those things wont either.
 

ebenz47037

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toldailytopic: The Rapture: do you believe such an event will take place? Why, or why not?


It's funny. My nephew, my daughter, and I were talking about this tonight and I haven't been on TOL all day. :chuckle:

My answer is yes. I believe the rapture will happen for the same reason several people have stated in this thread. It boils down to the Bible says it's going to happen.
 

steko

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Yes, i believe that is an event that will take place - i believe the bible speaks about it, Daniels 70th week has not occurred yet (tribulation period designed to bring Israel back to God and is a time of judgment on the earth, it is not for the church - but for Israel- and will begin when the time of the gentiles has been finished,the events in revelation have not yet occurred either, Christ hasn't returned yet, the millennial reign has not happened and Armageddon hasn't happened.

The bible also says in the end it will be as the says of noah and lot - noahs family was removed before judgment came and lot and his family was removed, i believe the church will also be removed.

I could literally go on and on about my biblical reasoning here. (Hebrew wedding custom for example - the bride is hidden away in the Fathers house for 7 days with the groom during the wedding feast - the 7 days correspond to the final 7 days(years) of Daniels 70 weeks prophecy - we are the "bride" of Christ and will be in heaven with our groom during the tribulation period - removed when our groom to be stands outside (calls from the clouds) and calls for us to go and meet him (rapture) Those of us of course who have oil in our lamps (the holy spirit- those who are saved)

So much bible prophecy has come to pass also that there simply isnt any reason in my mind to believe those things wont either.

:thumb:
 

steko

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Again......I can understand when Christians disagree on the timing of the 'rapture'.....but I cannot fathom those who claim to be Christian and affirm that the rapture event is not a clear statement of scripture.
 

Letsargue

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Ok, He showed you a mystery??? - Tell us then in your own words what he said!! - You can't!!! - Therefore there was no mystery revealed.

Paul -- 092012


Where did you go STP?? -- You didn't say what the Lord was saying. You missed it again!! -- I can tell you what was really being said; - I heard Him say it, the same as you didn't hear!!

Paul -- 092112
 

Letsargue

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Again......I can understand when Christians disagree on the timing of the 'rapture'.....but I cannot fathom those who claim to be Christian and affirm that the rapture event is not a clear statement of scripture.


Is your definition of the Rapture, better than God's definition there in this verse ?? >>> --- Ephesians 2:6-7 KJV -- "And ( hath raised us up together ), and made us ( sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus ):
7 That in ( "the ages to come" ) he might ( "SHEW" )>> the exceeding riches of his grace". ------//-- Can that shewing be done ( Before the next "AGE"????? - What was there to be "shown", if it was not there to be seem???? -- And what was seen before the "LIGHT CAME" in the "Brightness of His coming"????? --- Come on, -- what's the matter with you guys??

Paul -- 092112
 

Granite

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What hath Mr. Darby wrought!

Dibs on your cool stuff once you guys are outta here.:devil:
 

PureX

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toldailytopic: The Rapture: do you believe such an event will take place? Why, or why ...

No, because it's just a silly fantasy made up in the minds of people who don't understand the use of symbolic imagery in written text.
 

Silent Hunter

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Questions:

Who gets "raptured"? (144,000?)
What is the purpose of the "rapture"? (gather the "saints"?)
When will it happen . . . what day? (May 21, 2012? . . . oops)
Where will it occur . . . geographically? (Jerusalem, Rome, London, NYC?)
Why is such a world-wide event necessary? (something for the deity to do on a clear day?)
How is this event to be accomplished? (the deity knows . . . right?)
 
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Angel4Truth

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What hath Mr. Darby wrought!

Dibs on your cool stuff once you guys are outta here.:devil:

http://www.raptureme.com/terry/james27.html

The rapture has already been proven to have been taught long before Darby. The earliest non biblical reference was from ephraim of Syria in 373 AD

"For all the saints and the Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."

Ephrem the Syrian, On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, 373 A.D.
 

Lighthouse

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toldailytopic: The Rapture: do you believe such an event will take place? Why, or why ...

No, because it's just a silly fantasy made up in the minds of people who don't understand the use of symbolic imagery in written text.
How is the text referring to the rapture symbolic?
 

PureX

Well-known member
How is the text referring to the rapture symbolic?
Exactly. When read with the presumption that the text must be "literal and absolute", it becomes impossible to see that the authors HAD to use imagination and symbolism to convey their understanding of the divine. Being only human, how could they do otherwise?
 

OMEGA

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Well, it looks like Jesus will temporarily raise up a few Martyrs

to show them what is going on near the End and then put them

back to sleep until He resurrects the rest of the Elect and then

brings everyone down to the Mount of Olives at once.

Re 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Re 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
-----------------------------

Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
 

Lighthouse

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Exactly. When read with the presumption that the text must be "literal and absolute", it becomes impossible to see that the authors HAD to use imagination and symbolism to convey their understanding of the divine. Being only human, how could they do otherwise?
Ignorant twit; you have shown yourself to be a fool.

Your argument is invalid in its attempt, as you posted absolutely none of the text and thereby failed to show it to be symbolic.

Answer the question I asked or go away; your dishonest and disingenuous statements that evade the actual question are nothing but drivel.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
-1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

How is that symbolic?
 
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