What if they can't work?
What if they are unemployable, due to either personal issues that they might have or economic conditions beyond their control?
toldailytopic: "Soup kitchens": Do they help or hurt the homeless?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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What if they can't work?
What if they are unemployable, due to either personal issues that they might have or economic conditions beyond their control?
Cracked
New member
Every system has the potential to be taken advantage of. If we sit back an nit pick all the problems with things that people do for the good of others, we would never do anything.
Some "soup kitchens" or shelters have systems in place where the homeless must work and attend church services in order to stay. If they don't work, they don't get to eat or stay.
The system is an attempt to get them on their feet, provide them an address for job interviews etc., and help them find housing on their own.
I like these types of systems.
Unfortunately there are those that don't and still expect to be given food. Here is an example:
I met a friend of mine for lunch (he works in our cities "downtown"). As we parked and walked towards the Mexican restaurant a homeless stopped us and asked us for money for food. We do not carry cash, only credit cards, so we told him that we don't have any money to give, but if he was hungry he was more than welcomed to join us for lunch and we would buy it.
He said he would rather have the money.
We said ok and walked away. When we made it to the door the hostess asked "how many" and we told her "two". Just then we heard someone cough behind us. It was the homeless man. We changed our seating preference to three. During lunch we had a conversation with "homeless Greg" and during the conversation he told us his "story". Interesting enough he had been in one of the "systems" at a local homeless shelter.
He told us he couldn't live by the rules...so he left. My friend replied "I think if I were homeless and someone was feeding me and housing me, then I think I could put up with some cleaning, light work, and some church services". The guy also told us his sister had let him stay at her place but he left because of her "nagging. Apparently she wanted him to "help out" with the bills and food etc.
It's conversations like these that I have had with many homeless folks that causes me to be more cynical than I should.
The system is an attempt to get them on their feet, provide them an address for job interviews etc., and help them find housing on their own.
I like these types of systems.
Unfortunately there are those that don't and still expect to be given food. Here is an example:
I met a friend of mine for lunch (he works in our cities "downtown"). As we parked and walked towards the Mexican restaurant a homeless stopped us and asked us for money for food. We do not carry cash, only credit cards, so we told him that we don't have any money to give, but if he was hungry he was more than welcomed to join us for lunch and we would buy it.
He said he would rather have the money.
We said ok and walked away. When we made it to the door the hostess asked "how many" and we told her "two". Just then we heard someone cough behind us. It was the homeless man. We changed our seating preference to three. During lunch we had a conversation with "homeless Greg" and during the conversation he told us his "story". Interesting enough he had been in one of the "systems" at a local homeless shelter.
He told us he couldn't live by the rules...so he left. My friend replied "I think if I were homeless and someone was feeding me and housing me, then I think I could put up with some cleaning, light work, and some church services". The guy also told us his sister had let him stay at her place but he left because of her "nagging. Apparently she wanted him to "help out" with the bills and food etc.
It's conversations like these that I have had with many homeless folks that causes me to be more cynical than I should.
Flipper
New member
I seem to recall that someone was once quoted as saying something about the poor always being with us.
And that was when someone suggested that they give money to the poor.
Someone asked why is this woman not selling the perfume and giving money to the poor?
Jesus said, the poor will always around and you will have ample opportunity to help them.
Mark 14:4-7
Also
Also
In addition to being a compassionate mandate from God Himself, it makes good common sense from a societal perspective.
Hungry people can be desperate people. They may turn to criminal activity to feed themselves.
Hungry people are in a weakened condition and more susceptible to disease. Not only do they then have to be cared for medically but they become vectors to spread disease.
Hungry people can become hopeless people with nothing to lose. If you have nothing to lose it is very tempting to fall for the rhetoric of demagogues and create civic unrest or possible anarchy.
The very least we can do in a nation as wealthy as ours is feed the hungry.
The Salvation Army has fed the hungry for years and in the process has won many souls to Christ.
I believe that feeding the hungry is a moral imperative which must be implemented as one of the foundations of a healthy society.
Also
In addition to being a compassionate mandate from God Himself, it makes good common sense from a societal perspective.
Hungry people can be desperate people. They may turn to criminal activity to feed themselves.
Hungry people are in a weakened condition and more susceptible to disease. Not only do they then have to be cared for medically but they become vectors to spread disease.
Hungry people can become hopeless people with nothing to lose. If you have nothing to lose it is very tempting to fall for the rhetoric of demagogues and create civic unrest or possible anarchy.
The very least we can do in a nation as wealthy as ours is feed the hungry.
The Salvation Army has fed the hungry for years and in the process has won many souls to Christ.
I believe that feeding the hungry is a moral imperative which must be implemented as one of the foundations of a healthy society.
I have volunteered in one, most the people that I have seen in them are just folks in a bad situation, not much in the way of drunks or drug addicts.
That being said, I don't see soup kitchens as a bad thing. Sadly, I know someone that abuses soup kitchens and various other services for the needy/homeless because they don't want to spend their money. Well not on things like food any way.
csuguy
Well-known member
I'm hoping this was posted to stir controversy and not because you actually believe it, seeings how your a Christian... :noid:
csuguy
Well-known member
Soup Kitchens help the homeless obviously. There will always be people who abuse the system of course, but most people wouldn't go to a soup kitchen unless they needed it. Nor for that matter would most people be on the streets if they were able to prevent it. Most just need a leg up to get back on their feet.
King Ogre
New member
They help. The homeless are not homeless by choice. Many are slaves to drugs, others to mental illness. Homeless shelters are more dangerous than a prison yard: just as many edged weapons but no security. They have a right to eat. They have a right to clothing.
Matthew 25:35
Luke 16:19-23
Matthew 25:35
Luke 16:19-23
Yeah, I believe it was Judas doing the asking...
"Put the poor to work!" sounds just fine till you realize how difficult it is to, you know, actually do it.
I agree. Fostering a dependence on the spoon-holder is not the answer.
Indeed there is a Christian church in my area that gives free food to anyone that applies. They do not see genuine need. To them, everyone is needy.
In general, I have not known the "establishment" folks to discriminate. They have told me, when I asked, that the people who show up for the handouts wouldn't be there if they weren't needy. Yes, I also have known very greedy folks who tour the food banks and take advantage of them.
Add in the government charities and it's still true.
Locally, we used to have two substantial food banks. They were always running out of supplies and appealing for more. Then they decided to ask for ID. After a couple of weeks, they had an oversupply of food and a severe lack of clientele. Closed one of the banks down. There were no protests, no riots and the number of supposed homeless and hungry decreased.
toldailytopic: "Soup kitchens": Do they help or hurt the homeless? |
While we may look at those who go to or frequent soup kitchens, mission, etc., with distain or sympathy, or ignore them, such places and people are real. And I believe soup kitchens, missions, etc., are needful.
There will always be the regulars who if they didn't go to the soup kitchen their daily portion would be less than meager. Then there are those who get a boast for whatever reason from the kindness of those willing to serve them and they catch a fresh wind are back to productive citizens.
There have been vagabonds since Cain, bums and near' dowells who seek these modern day cities of refuge. Jesus said the poor you have with you always. If we are not willing to help, I think we can at least pray for the homeless/hungry and those who serve them, I'm thankful for those who are willing to help the least of our society.
Yes, for some they help and for some they hinder. And those that are hindered are those who remain as they are, sadly they'll die in that condition, lost cold and alone. Again by prayer and supplication both the helped and hindered should be remembered.
"Soup kitchens": Do they help or hurt the homeless? I truly hope I never have to find out.
I wonder sometimes if the Lord is putting us to a test to find out what we are made of and what we'll say or do; in the saying and doing if we will not, the Lord has always had a people who will.
There will always be the regulars who if they didn't go to the soup kitchen their daily portion would be less than meager. Then there are those who get a boast for whatever reason from the kindness of those willing to serve them and they catch a fresh wind are back to productive citizens.
There have been vagabonds since Cain, bums and near' dowells who seek these modern day cities of refuge. Jesus said the poor you have with you always. If we are not willing to help, I think we can at least pray for the homeless/hungry and those who serve them, I'm thankful for those who are willing to help the least of our society.
Yes, for some they help and for some they hinder. And those that are hindered are those who remain as they are, sadly they'll die in that condition, lost cold and alone. Again by prayer and supplication both the helped and hindered should be remembered.
"Soup kitchens": Do they help or hurt the homeless? I truly hope I never have to find out.
I wonder sometimes if the Lord is putting us to a test to find out what we are made of and what we'll say or do; in the saying and doing if we will not, the Lord has always had a people who will.
P8ntrDan
New member
From what I've read so far it seems most people have had little to no experience with actual homeless people. A majority of them are not mentally ill, most of them were overwhelmed by situations beyond their control. For some it's just a few months before they are able to get a job and get going again. However, the longer it takes the more slim the chances of them "getting out" becomes. Begrudging people in this situation a hot meal just because some may take advantage of free hand outs is the height of foolishness.
Well
Well
The thing is, the "poor drunks" are people. I think, "What if that were me?" So I give handouts. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't. It helps me. Mainly it shows that I care.
Well
The thing is, the "poor drunks" are people. I think, "What if that were me?" So I give handouts. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't. It helps me. Mainly it shows that I care.
Lon
Well-known member
It isn't that I am of the same opinion, I'm with most who support those kitchens but I don't believe calling someone's faith into question is appropriate.
While I don't share Knight's view, I at least am able to understand and appreciate it. If people can't discuss the ethics behind these views w/o ad homs, the problem is only escalated without dialogue, discussion, understanding or meaningful feedback.
He has a legitimate Christ-honoring beef that he already explained: enabling abusers. For me, the answer isn't eliminating soup kitchens. On this I disagree with Knight, but I share the sentiment that we should not be enabling abusers.
He is correct: If you don't work, you don't eat. It is a principal that isn't blanketable imho, though. I believe this verse is mostly about not enabling misbehavior. I implicitly share that value with Knight.
For me, if one is to err, I'd rather err on the side of enabling so that those in true need are taken care of, so I do not support erradicating soup kitchens.
:BRAVO:
I agree. In my home town there was a large church (I won't say which denomination, because it doesn't really matter) that gave out not only food, but clothing and toiletries every saturday to anyone.
I say anyone, because they didn't even bother to determine whether or not the people who came (and come they did!! in HUGE numbers) actually needed what was being given.
I used to volunteer there, back in the day, because I got credit in high school for doing so.
I would literally watch families drive up in their mercedes, get out of the car in their designer clothes, and put on dirty, old clothing they retrieved from the trunk so that they could get free handouts.
And as for those who were actually homeless, I would often ask them how their search for jobs were going and if I could help them with addresses and directions (or rides) to places that offered resources to those homeless people who wished to improve their predicaments.
Their response without exception? Why should I do that...this place will always be here won't it? I get everything I need for the week here and I don't have to work for it.
Right.
Bad idea.
What ever happened to God helps those who help themselves?
And no, I'm not saying that everyone is born with equal opportunity. Obviously that is not true. But the people in question didn't even want to try.
No one in that church was ever in danger of giving anyone an "E" for effort.
csuguy
Well-known member
I call it into question seeings how Christians are explicitly commanded to help the least of these: those on the streets, those in PRISONS, those on drugs, etc. It is the Christian duty to help these people - if ever there was one. We aren't told to make sure that they are doing what we think they should be doing with our help, we are to simply help. If that is in fact his position, then what he has done is put right wing rhetoric over the gospel.
That said, scripture does say to not cast pearls before swine. So, in the event that you know a specific person is a user - don't help him. But if you don't know the people in question, then don't make assumptions about them - help them. You could be the one who opens them up to Christ. Even if they do abuse your help - remember that we are told that who we are really helping is Christ (Matthew 25).
I don't think this is the problem. True, there are a number of people who fall into this category. But there are also plenty who have the capability but lack the desire. They don't want to improve their situation.
In my home town, there were both places to help homeless people to find jobs and were familiar with those businesses who would be willing to hire homeless people with little skill. These places were all but empty. There were also a great number of soup kitchens. You couldn't get in the door.
I refuse to believe that ALL of these people were suffering from such debilitating mental conditions that they were unable to improve their situation if they had the desire. They knew all the various soup kitchen locations, their hours, and managed to get there without trouble.
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