toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they chan

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You were declared righteous when you repented of your sins and accepted Jesus as your saviour.

Now that you are righteous, you need to continue living righteously.

Ezekiel 18:24 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.​

G-man, the Old Testament dealt with the House of Israel! God is
dealing with us through His Grace at this time. We're not living
under the law! Incidentally, the gentiles (us) were never given the
law!

I realize you desire to, earn your way to Heaven however, that's
not the way it's done today!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You have no reason to doubt if you are continuing in faithful obedience to Him.
Jesus will only save those that believe in Him enough to continue in faithful obedience to His Will.

If you are relying on OSAS to save you from your unfaithfulness, then you are not looking towards Jesus to save you, and should be doubting.

1 Peter 1:17 17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:​

You are an excellent false teacher! My compliments!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Ah, divine revelation is not life. Life is given after we believe in that divine revelation. We are begotten by the Gospel....by hearing the Word and being persuaded by it's truth. Of course, everything begins with God. He draws us to the Light...to Himself. We can either accept or reject. That is the choice we must make.

True

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Our forgiving others is not a requirement for our salvation.

The servant who had no compassion was not a saved man, so this is another of those cases where every possible verse is turned to in order to "prove" salvation can be lost. One would think that line of thinking would get quite old. Let's dig and probe through the Word of God and find something that sounds like salvation can be lost. :nono:

The G-man only accepts bad news!

 

[godrulz]

Believers have biblical assurance from the Word and Spirit.

We don't need manmade OSAS false assurance (saved despite a godless/Christless life). We also mishandle the Word and give false assurance to apostates.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Believers have biblical assurance from the Word and Spirit.

We don't need manmade OSAS false assurance (saved despite a godless/Christless life). We also mishandle the Word and give false assurance to apostates.

What are you talking about? OSAS is backed by the Scriptures!

 

[glorydaz]

Believers have biblical assurance from the Word and Spirit.

We don't need manmade OSAS false assurance (saved despite a godless/Christless life). We also mishandle the Word and give false assurance to apostates.

Obviously, your definition of OSAS is incorrect. Christ dwells in the believer and He will never leave nor forsake us. He doesn't move in and out of those He has given life. The problem for you, godrulz, is you think anyone who claims to be saved is saved, so when they "fall away" you blame OSAS and claim it is false.

You used the term "godless/Christless" rightly.....the unsaved are Christless, not those who are saved. You just donkey down and claim a person can lose their salvation, while you point your finger at those other guys...never yourself, of course. What you're doing is claiming you keep yourself saved....works salvation plain and simple.

 

[Bright Raven]

No one can take us from the hand of God, but we can jump out. A verse that says persecution, demons, death cannot separate believers from God's love does not negate the verses that show we can turn our back on God, apostasize, fall away. You are selective with your evidence to support your view, but ignore things that contradict it.

The only way to embrace all relevant evidence is to see that there is a conditional element to conversion/perseverance, a Godward and a manward issue.

And what are those verses that say we can turn away from God?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Obviously, your definition of OSAS is incorrect. Christ dwells in the believer and He will never leave nor forsake us. He doesn't move in and out of those He has given life. The problem for you, godrulz, is you think anyone who claims to be saved is saved, so when they "fall away" you blame OSAS and claim it is false.

You used the term "godless/Christless" rightly.....the unsaved are Christless, not those who are saved. You just donkey down and claim a person can lose their salvation, while you point your finger at those other guys...never yourself, of course. What you're doing is claiming you keep yourself saved....works salvation plain and simple.

Good post

 

[godrulz]

What are you talking about? OSAS is backed by the Scriptures!

The assurance passages apply to those who believe/continue to believe, not those who cease to believe reverting back to godless unbelief. You are proof texting one motif or removing the conditional element in the larger context.

All verses are subject to interpretation and not immune to eisegesis/preconceived bias.

To those who think faith or continuance in the faith is a work, you are wrong. You cannot say initial faith is not a work, but continued faith is a work...does not compute. Abiding/remaining in Christ vs rejecting Him is not a works issue, but a fundamental issue of ultimate choice (God or Self).

Those who deny free will reduce us to robots vs image of God and impugn God by making Him vs us responsible for evil or damnation.

 

[genuineoriginal]

G-man, the Old Testament dealt with the House of Israel!

Are you claiming that you are not worshipping the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

Or are you claiming that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob decided He no longer cares if Christians behave wickedly?

 

[genuineoriginal]

We're not living
under the law! Incidentally, the gentiles (us) were never given the
law!

This verse is not talking about the law.

Ezekiel 18:24 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

You are an excellent false teacher! My compliments!

No, you can thank Calvin for the false teachings that led to OSAS.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Ah, divine revelation is not life. Life is given after we believe in that divine revelation. We are begotten by the Gospel....by hearing the Word and being persuaded by it's truth. Of course, everything begins with God. He draws us to the Light...to Himself. We can either accept or reject. That is the choice we must make.

Great it all sounds...the only problem is it is not what the bible says,

It doesn't say any of all that...that is all how wise teachers suppose it must happen.

The bible says we are born not by the will of man or by the will of the flesh but by the will of God. but you say we ARE born by the will of man.

 

[Totton Linnet]

You have no reason to doubt if you are continuing in faithful obedience to Him.
Jesus will only save those that believe in Him enough to continue in faithful obedience to His Will.
So you are co-redemptor with Christ, He does His bit and you do your bit, and your bit is every bit as vital as the work He did for you on the cross, if you fail then you have made the cross is of none effect......the way things are going God will soon have to believe in YOU.
If you are relying on OSAS to save you from your unfaithfulness, then you are not looking towards Jesus to save you, and should be doubting.

I am not unfaithful, the more we understand the grace of God and how He has done everything and is HIMSELF everything...our salvation, our sanctification, our righteouness, our wisdom, the more we will grow in those things...you are the people who are allus limping between two opinions I am saved/I am lost, I am saved/I am lost, I am saved I am lost. As soon as you begin to put down roots oh dear, some preacher is pulling you up by the roots. I don't recognise OSAS I believe in everlasting life 1 Peter 1:17 17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:​

1. Peter.1:18 says
Forasmuch as you KNOW that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things such as silver and gold from your vain conversation recieved by tradition from men....but you say it is corruptible.

Jesus tells us what our work is...to believe on Him who God sent...but you believe in your works. And it says nothing here about the possibility of losing salvation, that is what you read into it.

 

[glorydaz]

The assurance passages apply to those who believe/continue to believe, not those who cease to believe reverting back to godless unbelief. You are proof texting one motif or removing the conditional element in the larger context.

All verses are subject to interpretation and not immune to eisegesis/preconceived bias.

To those who think faith or continuance in the faith is a work, you are wrong. You cannot say initial faith is not a work, but continued faith is a work...does not compute. Abiding/remaining in Christ vs rejecting Him is not a works issue, but a fundamental issue of ultimate choice (God or Self).

Those who deny free will reduce us to robots vs image of God and impugn God by making Him vs us responsible for evil or damnation.

If one has been fully persuaded, filled with the Holy Spirit, and has passed from death unto life, he cannot "cease to believe." What you claim is possible is impossible for the heart has been circumcised...the heart of stone has been cut away by the Holy Spirit. That stone is unbelief....it's gone, purified by faith when we believe. You're talking about someone who circumcises his own heart...yes, that work can be undone. What God performs cannot be undone.

So when one of the sheep falls in a pit, will the Good Shepherd pull him out, or will he expect that sheep to scramble out on his own? That's what you need to decide.

There are some who will turn their back on the Lord. I imagine most will rebel (lest there would be no need for chastening.) I've done it myself, but I never doubted for an instant He was there, waiting patiently for me to return. Did I suffer loss during that time? Yes, I did....loss in this life....never loss of eternal life. For I live, not by my own power but by the Power of God who keeps His own unto the day of redemption. Which is what Paul talks about here....

1 Cor. 3:12-15
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[glorydaz]

Great it all sounds...the only problem is it is not what the bible says,

It doesn't say any of all that...that is all how wise teachers suppose it must happen.

The bible says we are born not by the will of man or by the will of the flesh but by the will of God. but you say we ARE born by the will of man.

No, for we do not give ourselves life...which is what that verse is talking about. The Word would not tell us to come, if we were not able to come. We would not be told to repent, if we were not able to repent. We would not be told to turn to the Lord, if we were not able to turn. We would not be told to choose, if we were not able to choose. We would not be told to EAT and DRINK if we were not able to do so.

What you do see is "Ye would not," NOT "Ye could not."

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!



You just can't explain it away....we are told to COME.

Matthew 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

If one has been fully persuaded, filled with the Holy Spirit, and has passed from death unto life, he cannot "cease to believe." What you claim is possible is impossible for the heart has been circumcised...the heart of stone has been cut away by the Holy Spirit. That stone is unbelief....it's gone, purified by faith when we believe. You're talking about someone who circumcises his own heart...yes, that work can be undone. What God performs cannot be undone.

So when one of the sheep falls in a pit, will the Good Shepherd pull him out, or will he expect that sheep to scramble out on his own? That's what you need to decide.

There are some who will turn their back on the Lord. I imagine most will rebel (lest there would be no need for chastening.) I've done it myself, but I never doubted for an instant He was there, waiting patiently for me to return. Did I suffer loss during that time? Yes, I did....loss in this life....never loss of eternal life. For I live, not by my own power but by the Power of God who keeps His own unto the day of redemption. Which is what Paul talks about here....

1 Cor. 3:12-15
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Excellent post, as usual!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

No, you can thank Calvin for the false teachings that led to OSAS.

Bologna! Plain and simple! I could make, the worlds most GIGANTIC
hero sandwich out of the bologna you serve up!

 

[glorydaz]

No, you can thank Calvin for the false teachings that led to OSAS.

That's a bunch of bull. The Bible was written long before Calvin was born and it teaches assurance of salvation. Just because Calvin is one of those who taught salvation could not be lost, doesn't mean those in the early church thought otherwise.