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toldailytopic: Is it wrong to hate?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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torrent85
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God's sins?
Psalms 5:4-6
4 You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil;
with you the wicked cannot dwell.
5 The arrogant cannot stand in your presence;
you hate all who do wrong.
6 You destroy those who tell lies;
bloodthirsty and deceitful men
the LORD abhors.
God does not hate
torrent85
New member
Really?
Psalm 11:5
The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates.
if you don't bring some common sense to the Bible, you will have to conclude that Jesus is a lamb
torrent85
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Shall we continue on hate.
Proverbs 6:16-19
16 There are six things the LORD hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.
Jesus is the Lamb.
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
I have three words for this post: Hollywood psycho babble.
I'm retired law enforcement. Hollywood tells us "if you don't forgive, it will eat you up inside." What eats at a Christian is when he or she is taught the false doctrine that they are to forgive everyone and they are not to hate anyone. When they are unable to follow these false teachings, they feel condemned. I was teaching a Bible class one night in Denver on "Forgiveness." A young man came up to me after the class. (A business partner of his had stolen $10,000 from him.) He asked, "You mean I don't have to forgive him or love him?" I told him that when his partner repented and paid back the money, then he had to forgive and love him. He was so relieved. He told me that he had tried to forgive him but could not, and it condemned him because he was under the false teaching that he had to forgive and love the unrepentant.
Jesus said that if your brother sins against you, REBUKE him. Don't forgive him. Jesus then said, "And IF, IF, IF, he repents, forgive him. Now listen carefully: Jesus did not command us to forgive so that it will make us feel good. Phoney, self-righteous love is what makes you feel good. Phoney, self-righteous forgiveness is what makes you feel good. Forgiveness is not to make the forgiver feel good; its to get the unrepentant sinner to repent. This is why Jesus said to rebuke and forgive only the repentant.
I had a partner who worked for the Dade County PD in Flordia. He had to shoot an armed criminal who was trying to shoot him. My friend got off the first shot. He related to me that it did not eat at his heart for a moment. He was elated that he had gotten to go home to his wife and kids that night. But they still made him see a shrink. Not forgiving the wicked, hating the unrepentant wicked WILL NOT EAT YOU UP unless you've watched too many Hollywood movies.
Read some of King David's paslms and writings. He sure had a lot of hatred for the wicked. And God said that he was a man after God's own heart. Paul should have been eaten up. Why? Because at the end of his ministry, he warned Timothy of Alexander the Coppersmith. While the Bible does not reveal what Alexander did to Paul, Paul did not love Alexander nor did he ever forgave him.
Loving everyone and forgiving everyone is self-righteousness--pure and simple. I can relate a story to show this: Cathy Sanders worked in the federal building in Oklahoma that Timothy McVeigh blew up. In the bombing, her two grandchildren were killed. I watched her on a Christian TV show relate how she visited Timothy McVeigh shortly before he was executed. She boasted how she had told Timothy McVeigh that she forgave him.
First, while my heart goes out to her for her loss, self-righteousness was oozng from her pores. "Just look at how good I am. I even forgave the man who killed my grandchildren." First, she had no standing to forgive him. The two grandchildren, whom he killed, had standing to forgive him, but they're not here. Cathy Sanders can forgive Timothy only for the hurt that was caused to her. And Timothy can't be forgiven by Cathy, her grandchildren, or God UNLESS HE REPENTED. Timothy McVeigh went to his execution muttering some nonsence: "If I go to hell, so be it. I will adapt and survive."
This is what you get from false Bible teachers. Now if Cathy went on Oprah, she would get a standing O. Be suspicious of any Bible teaching that will get you a standing O on Oprah.
God bless, Tom from Mabank, TX
No! How you express it matters not. It is WHY you hate. You should not hate "without cause," OF COURSE. You should hate the unrepentant child molesting sodomizer with RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION!
God bless, Tom from Mabank, TX
Just one point: God has no problem with the word "hate." He, unashamedly and unabashedly hates the wicked and has no problem using the word: Ps. 5:5, 6: 11:5; 34:16; 45:7; 139:20-22; Prov 6:16:19; Ho. 9:13; Lev. 26:27-30; 2 Chr. 19:2.
The homosexuals have stolen and tarnished the word "gay." So I go out of my way to let everyone know that I am a gay person, but I am not a filthy homosexual pervert. We, as Christians, should not shy away from using God's word because skin heads or bigots have co-opted it. Skinheads hate the righteous; Christians should hate the wicked skinheads. They hate good; we hate evil. When we shy away from using God's word as He uses it, then we are guilty of being offended by His word. We are ashamed of it.
God bless, Tom from Mabank, TX
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Love consumes all
Love consumes all
Indeed, if God's nature is Love itself,...Love can only do as its innate nature is capable of, willing its most true expressions of itself eternally and infinitely. This Love is unconditional and unchanging. Consider the Infinity of Love. - this universal Reality transcends any mortal-concept of love or hate, being above all duality.
As to the thread-title question: If the supreme law is Love...and Jesus and other inspired teachers taught us to love "all"..they knowing the divine law....then it is for us to accept and obey as we understand and live that divine principle.
It is only wrong to 'hate' when this attitude violates or transgresses the law of love that we could be embodying and expressing at any moment. 'Hate' is a natural human 'reaction' towards something or someone, inspired within any number of situations, however...it is how one reacts and chooses to express themselves that counts, each circumstance being unique. Yet the universal principle of Love which Jesus teaches holds thru-out, encompassing all, even as the sun's rays shine on all, - its only in this way that we prove ourselves to be children of God. - hence the loving of our enemies and those who do us harm.
One can hate on any relative level as loathing this or that (natural human reactions), but Love is to be the all-encompassing/transcending light that one extends and radiates, as a child of God. Evil, wickedness, sin, etc....will be absolved and mediated by the Ultimacy of Love. Love outshines all. Hatred or disdain will come and go, but 'God' is the Fire that consumes all. In the Spirit, we are always brought to the divine Center....where there is only love, peace and joy. These eternal qualities prevail over all that is unrighteous or unreal...and will ultimately quench all hatred.
The writer of this book was sharing his general observations of human experience, so agree with much of what he 'saw' relative to his time, the natural procession of life and its seasons of difference. However he (Solomon) and even David in the psalms have a limited perspective conditioned by their own experience and knowledge of their time, which later revelations of truth and wisdom have transcended and given us a better picture of reality and religious conduct. How we love and hate NOW in this generation shall count for fulfilling the will of God in this dispensation. However we think or act.....we shall reap what we sow accordingly (universal law).
You can let hate or love consume you.
pj
Love consumes all
Indeed, if God's nature is Love itself,...Love can only do as its innate nature is capable of, willing its most true expressions of itself eternally and infinitely. This Love is unconditional and unchanging. Consider the Infinity of Love. - this universal Reality transcends any mortal-concept of love or hate, being above all duality.
As to the thread-title question: If the supreme law is Love...and Jesus and other inspired teachers taught us to love "all"..they knowing the divine law....then it is for us to accept and obey as we understand and live that divine principle.
It is only wrong to 'hate' when this attitude violates or transgresses the law of love that we could be embodying and expressing at any moment. 'Hate' is a natural human 'reaction' towards something or someone, inspired within any number of situations, however...it is how one reacts and chooses to express themselves that counts, each circumstance being unique. Yet the universal principle of Love which Jesus teaches holds thru-out, encompassing all, even as the sun's rays shine on all, - its only in this way that we prove ourselves to be children of God. - hence the loving of our enemies and those who do us harm.
One can hate on any relative level as loathing this or that (natural human reactions), but Love is to be the all-encompassing/transcending light that one extends and radiates, as a child of God. Evil, wickedness, sin, etc....will be absolved and mediated by the Ultimacy of Love. Love outshines all. Hatred or disdain will come and go, but 'God' is the Fire that consumes all. In the Spirit, we are always brought to the divine Center....where there is only love, peace and joy. These eternal qualities prevail over all that is unrighteous or unreal...and will ultimately quench all hatred.
The writer of this book was sharing his general observations of human experience, so agree with much of what he 'saw' relative to his time, the natural procession of life and its seasons of difference. However he (Solomon) and even David in the psalms have a limited perspective conditioned by their own experience and knowledge of their time, which later revelations of truth and wisdom have transcended and given us a better picture of reality and religious conduct. How we love and hate NOW in this generation shall count for fulfilling the will of God in this dispensation. However we think or act.....we shall reap what we sow accordingly (universal law).
You can let hate or love consume you.
pj
If he does I'm sure he doesn't need any help spreading the ill will around...
It can be. Though someone might see your posture, specifically as you illustrate it in dealing with Cathy Sanders and her loss, as a little self righteous, don't you think?
That you call her sharing of forgiveness a boast goes a long way toward my not finding your next statement particularly credible.
I think you're right there, except in your aim. On the upside, she'd probably forgive you for it.
lain:Way to look into her heart and find it wanting. Shame on you. Literally, shame on you.
I don't believe she intoned that because of her action he was free of sin. Else, it's her business how she approaches him, be it in understandable anger or in the spirit of one hopeful for the fate of his soul. I think we all know which is harder to do.
You seem so interested in making your larger point (which isn't without merit) that you're using the wrong illustration and methodology in the attempt, forcing your preconception on it and us as though it were gospel
What did she actually say that led you to believe she was doing more than exactly that?
Nope. That's not scriptural. You are to forgive someone if they ask, but there's no verse forbidding you to do so unless they ask.
Then he missed his opportunity. She didn't.
:thumb:
:BRAVO:
You're a moron. For you to speak of common sense is the perfect illustration of irony.
This is nothing but lawyerspeak. The command of God on forgiveness states that we forgive if they repent. This does not give us the freedom to forgive otherwise simply because it doesn't state that we can't. To say we can is circular logic that is not logical at all.
[Jesus]Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.[/Jesus]
-Luke 17:3
Peripatetic
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Gee, thanks, Tom From Mabank. I had never before been exposed to this fundamental aspect of Christianity.
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