toldailytopic: GI Jane: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the armed

Christ's Word

New member
One minute, a man with misdemeanors cannot join, and the next, they are admitted with open arms. Women fill in the gaps. That is the truth of the matter. The military has no problem with the volume of personnel, as they put these requirements there for no other reason then to keep an overflow of soldiers.



You really just rebuke your own argument. By this, you admit that men are more sustainable on the fighting ground.



That's nice. You see, snipers are deadly and so they become a top priority. The opposing army may just bomb an entire area just to take care of a single sniper.
However, over half of them likely died because they came short of the other duties of a soldier. Snipers do not simply stand above a war., there comes a time when one will be doing exactly the same as others, especially in the event of an ambush.

In other words, women are put into the grinder just as males. There is no special treatment in the war zone. If you want to push your feminist agenda, then let there be a draft. Let's see where your female supremacy is then.
You just need to face the fact that nature conveys: we are like lions. The lionesses do not hunt, they man the fort. You have to be the QB to be the MVP, not the punter :thumb:

How interesting you bring up lions in your bogus analogy. Unlike in war where the men do the heavy lifting (SOF), in a lion pride the females do the vast majority of the hunting and killing. The male lions sleep 18 to 20 hours a day and wake up to eat, breed and defecate.:chuckle:

I would like to see you talk that smack in front of 20 female navy pilots who fly combat aircraft...... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

BTW whiffel-stick, there are thousands of women that can outperform you in any combat task, including shooting, running, throwing grenades, or any other battle field action you care to name.
 

Sum1sGruj

BANNED
Banned
How interesting you bring up lions in your bogus analogy. Unlike in war where the men do the heavy lifting (SOF), in a lion pride the females do the vast majority of the hunting and killing. The male lions sleep 18 to 20 hours a day and wake up to eat, breed and defecate.:chuckle:

I would like to see you talk that smack in front of 20 female navy pilots who fly combat aircraft...... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

BTW whiffel-stick, there are thousands of women that can outperform you in any combat task, including shooting, running, throwing grenades, or any other battle field action you care to name.

As I said,
You have to be the QB to be the MVP, not the punter

And

It's not hard to do any of the things you have stated. It is, however, fairly easy for an average male soldier to pummel a woman even if she is physically fit and trained. Watch an episode of Cops and tell me if those female officers actually hold their own. Get past their props for trying and see how they actually perform. Noone needs those quaint lies tainting national security.
 

Christ's Word

New member
As I said,


And

It's not hard to do any of the things you have stated. It is, however, fairly easy for an average male soldier to pummel a woman even if she is physically fit and trained. Watch an episode of Cops and tell me if those female officers actually hold their own. Get past their props for trying and see how they actually perform. Noone needs those quaint lies tainting national security.


Idiots like you need to meet Gina Carano in the ring. Or Sheri on the range. When put up or shut up time came, you would be the one being shut up.

Still sticking to your lion lies? No amount of truth will help an idiot like you.
 

LadyGreenEyes

New member
NO. I am former military, and married to a career soldier, so I understand the military very well. Women have NO PLACE in combat areas, and in my opinion, should not even be that close in support roles. First off, there are too many cultures, with which we fight, that have no more respect for women than they do for cattle. Placing women in places like that is asking for trouble. The fairly recent story of that one reporter demonstrates why. Then there is the fact that men can, and have, taken time to get women present to safety, instead of automatically responding to an imminent danger. Makes more sense to not have them there. There is a book called "Women in the Military" that talks about this and other issues. Women serving in the military is fine, because there are many support jobs that do NOT place on in combat, and those can be filled more than capably by women. However, the combat restrictions (that were all in place when I was in) were a good thing.

Equal rights is one thing, but that should not assume that we are identical. We aren't.
 

Sum1sGruj

BANNED
Banned
Idiots like you need to meet Gina Carano in the ring. Or Sheri on the range. When put up or shut up time came, you would be the one being shut up.

Still sticking to your lion lies? No amount of truth will help an idiot like you.

Oh please, do you think your examples are going to outweigh the virtually certain? Go ahead and let Gina Carano be a spectacle among women and see how they size up when it comes to walk the talk.

Notice that women play softball, not baseball. Notice that there is no sport period in which men and women co-participate. Why is the, CW? Could it possibly be because the women are superior and that the men are going to get pummeled?
Like I said, you are merely being feminist in your philosophies, and it's making you look like the idiot, not me, especially when your religion is clear about the the roles of sexes.
 

LadyGreenEyes

New member
No, I don't believe they should.

Please know that I have a deep and abiding respect for women. Perhaps I am old fashioned in many regards, but I do not believe it is the place for women to serve in combat positions.

I think that it is the job of men to protect women and children.

I am sorry if that offends, but I truly believe that.

I am the type of fellow who still runs to open the door for women and I am not above throwing down my coat over a muddly puddle in the street so that a lady can cross without soiling her shoes.

If that is offensive to Feminist sensibilities, then so be it.

In my opinion, men should protect and watch over women - not that they always need it, but because it is our God-given mandate to do so. God bless women; they are often so much stronger than we men.

See, you can recognize that we are strong in different ways! Doesn't offend me at all (though feminists tend to!).

No.

I served in a medical unit during combat and we had a number of women in our ambulance company. When I say "no," I say so based on personal experience serving with women in combat.

Things like sexual favoritism, adultery, and pregnancy were the main problems. When it came time to engage the enemy on the ground, all the women who didn't get pregnant to get out of combat in our unit were placed in one platoon and kept to the rear as much as possible. The thinking was protect the women, the same sentiment vegascowboy was expressing in his post. The women didn't mind that we did that, as I recall.

Have heard about some of those issues as well, from people I know in the military, that have deployed. LOTS of women got out of that by getting pregnant on purpose.

I can speak as a veteran. I say no. I have seen the ugly side of having women serve in a mixed gender setting. There is a lot of venereal disease, adultery and fornication. Woman in uniform shouldn't be sent away from their families, period. Bring them into a combat situation and it only gets worse.

100% agree!

Not until we run out of men.
(Sorry, guys. I know it sucks, but let's be realists.)

More and more, I see we agree on a LOT.

There is so much that women can do, nurses, doctors, teachers, drivers, assistants, even fly airplanes or sail ships.
But, not combat. That is a job for men and men deserve to have men at their side during combat. Men in battle must rely heavily on one another. Sometimes sheer strength is required to save the day.
As a nurse I would have gladly been a medic but even there I wouldn't have the necessary strength to bring a wounded man to safety. But I could help stitch him up and give him as much TLC as time would allow.

YES. In the military, but NOT in combat.

Well those reasons will be present whether women serve in the military or not.

But I do agree that women should not serve in combat positions, in the rear with the gear is different, at least until men can set their natural tendency to protect women aside and see them as another soldier and not a woman.

I don't see that as a good idea! have no desire to be seen as "not a woman"!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that men shouldn't want to protect women. I'm just saying they should want to protect men as well. Just like women should. At a push, you could say that people should want to protect individuals who're less able to protect themselves, which might shift the balance in favour of men protecting women slightly more often than the other way round, but my point is that gender shouldn't be the reason for wanting to protect someone.

That is a natural tendency, and NOT a bad one. Protecting those that bear and raise the children is normal, and should not change. This is the biggest reason women and combat should not mix.

I'm of the opinion that women suffer quite a lot just by virtue of being women, but that there are things built into the system to balance that out. So I can't agree with this.

If you want to propose a trade-off, I'd suggest going and figuring out a way for men to give birth and putting that on the table for consideration. And maybe menstrual cycles. Figure out a way for men to take that on in our stead.

I think if men can take those off our hands, women in general might agree to trade that for making war. You guys stay home and do menstrual cycles, and pregnancy. We'll go fight wars for you. I think that's fair. Some might disagree, but it's a good place to start negotiations.

See my sig. Thanks, but we've already been fooled into taking on a lot of your stuff with little or nothing in return. Not by men, don't get me wrong. But still.
Nope. Can't agree with that.

If a man is faced with the decision to risk his life saving another man or saving a woman...he better save the woman or I'll probably kick his butt myself.

Men? Give birth? Never happen; not enough pain tolerance. While I would demolish anyone that came into my house posing a threat, I don't want to trade off! Totally agree that we have taken on a lot that perhaps should not have been. The feminist movement isn't really friendly to women.

Perhaps, but expecting human beings to deny human nature is expecting more than is realistic, I think. And perhaps more than is appropriate.

Agreed!

OK Mary, put the razor back in your boot.

I seem to remember a little campaign some years back "Womens Suffrage", now after a few years you guys have made some real changes as far as womens rights are concerned and it seems that some ladies want to be able to decide which right will be applied and in what circumstance and at what time?

Before any one else says it, I haven't forgotten that my Mom told me that it is a womans prerogative to change her mind, I just wish they wouldn't do it so often.

Voting is one thing, but being treated like a man is quite another! Equal pay for equal work should not mean becoming something other than a woman, either. Problem is, some that didn't like being women spoke too much for the rest of us.

I didn't think I'd mentioned that around here... :noid:

It take what rights are mine and leave the rest, thanks. :thumb:

That's just a polite way of saying we're smarter than you guys. See, by saying we "changed our minds" it makes it easier for you to adapt to the seeming change in direction prompted by what circumstances might arise. Thus, neither of us need be saddled with enduring long explanations to convey all the intricacies...

I'm sorry, was I going to fast for you?

Look, just...don't worry about it. Go have a beer or something. Maybe football's on TV.

ROTFL!!!!!
 

LadyGreenEyes

New member
I really don't know. I guess it's up to them?

I mean the ancient Celts did have the mighty Boudicca, then again that was a Pagan society. Where did I read that the Romans had thought that the Celtic woman had fought fiercer than the men?

Well, that society was so scary that the Romans, who conquered virtually the entire known world, built a wall across the entire island to protect themselves. Some of my ancestors were TOUGH. :D That said, doesn't mean women should typically be in combat situations.

Fair points, PureX. There is an argument that one of the reasons that women would be particularly targetted for abuse is society's tendency to put them on a pedestal, *snip

Actually, it was God that made women different. Some years back, waslistening to a Smalley audio on the roles of men and women. One thing he pointed out was the terms used back in genesis. God made the first man from dust. The term there for "made" is like, well, what Smalley described as making a mudpie. The term "made" for women, though, was more like sculpting a fine vase. So, I would say this is part of us that we should not try and change.

But some of us ARE more expendable.

I am not married, for example, and have no children. So in an extreme situation, where life sacrifices have to be expected, I am more 'expendable' than the fathers and husbands among us would be. That doesn't mean I'm any less valued, appreciated, or loved. But if I were to be lost, my loss would be less hurtful for those left behind. That's just the way it is.

That's a case of being willing to place ones self before others, and that's an admirable trait. True that some are more able to do this, because of circumstances.

*snip*
Survival of the species is paramount, instinctively. Men protecting women is part of that instinct. For many of us, we have no way (or desire) to change this human instinct.

See above comment on how God made us all. You are right that this should not change.

*snip*
Incidentally, our social expectation of (relatively) monogamous child-bearing relationships is a rather neat illustration of the suppression of natural instincts for the benefit of society.

*snip*

Nope, again, that is something that God decided in the beginning. He didn't tell Adam and Eve, and a group of others, to be fruitful and multiply; He told a couple, that He placed together in the first marriage, to do that.

*snip*
Perhaps that is the social expectation of some people, even a majority, but it's not my expectation. From what I've seen, it appears more like an expectation of serial polygamy and divorce than monogamous child-bearing relationships. And it appears to be an expectation of having few children instead of many. That is the suppression of natural instincts for the detriment of society, imo.

Indeed! The more liberal, and against traditional marriage and family things become, the fewer children people are told they should have. There is even a very serious, and very evil, movement around that treats children as parasites, or worse.

I've always thought that it would be interesting if a woman was the one in charge of making a call over that 'red phone'.

Her reasoning might go like this:
What, go into an outdoor camping situation (either too hot or too cold) where there are no private toilets and no where to bath... fight street battles with high powered weapons where we equally might either kill or be killed... or finally fight in hand to hand combat?

Let's just win this war against our enemy quickly and efficiently ... where's that red phone?

:rotfl:

*snip*
No, I just think the people should be taught how to be soldiers. In case they need to be someday. Needn't even necessarily be assigned combat roles or spend any actual time in the military (beyond basic training) for that matter. I just like the idea of an invading army facing a city full of civilians who've at least been through basic training. And are armed, since I'm a big supporter of the second amendment.

THAT sounds like one of the DIs I had in basic. He stated that he didn't think women belonged in the military, but since they were, he would make "darn" sure that we were trained and able to defend the country in case of an attack on our soil. My Glock and I agree completely!

God made women with an innate maternal instinct, to nurture, not to kill (unless it's absolutely necessary, and in today's day and age, it isn't).

Let's not forget where we're currently fighting and the Muslim outlook towards women in general. To be more specific:

Fatwa Permits Muslim Soldiers to Kidnap, Imprison, and Rape Infidel Women
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/...o-kidnap-imprison-and-rape-infidel-women.html

Very true!

Actually, the Navy was forced to change the policy so she could fly. She could not pass the standards, so the standards were changed. Just like they do with women in the Army. Two sets of standards because they can't do 42 pushups. That is all you have to do. Well, sit ups and two mile run also but only 42 pushups.

That is a HUGE issue. Different standards have always been in place, for men and women. Different PT standards, etc. Longer running times, fewer pushups, etc. Different weight standards, even. A pack than a man could carry could drown a woman, if she tried crossing water with it. That is true for most women. Yes, a FEW that are stronger, but they are far from the norm. Women are strong in other ways. Doesn't make us lesser, just different.

The point is, women can easily serve in SOME roles in the military, but they cannot serve as well in others, and those tend to be combat areas. it isn't about who can shoot better (I can outshoot a LOT of people), but about who can do ALL of the tasks. Unless a woman can meet the same physical standards as the men, she has no place in some of those jobs.
 

Christ's Word

New member
Oh please, do you think your examples are going to outweigh the virtually certain?

Notice that women play softball, not baseball. Notice that there is no sport period in which men and women co-participate.

Yet another lie by this idiot...... here is the proof....did you say Baseball? HAH!


"A point of clarification: Tiffany Brooks, is in fact, the first female to sign a pro contract in America in pro baseball since Ila Borders. Ms. Brooks signed on March 4, 2010 over a month prior to Yoshida, with the Big Bend Cowboys of the Continental Baseball League (www.bigbendcowboys.com). Ms. Brooks is also a Pitcher, but plays 1B as well.


"minor-league-team-signs-female-pitcher"

http://www.newser.com/story/85653/minor-league-team-signs-female-pitcher.html

I guess Danica Patrick is not involved in a sport with men, the Indy 500 allows only chimpanzees and women eh?:drum:

Shirley Muldowney raced against only chicks huh? Don Garlits was a chick? You are a liar and punk, with Spam for brains.:spam:

You know so much....not...........so much of what you know, just is not true.
 

Sum1sGruj

BANNED
Banned
Yet another lie by this idiot...... here is the proof....did you say Baseball? HAH!


"A point of clarification: Tiffany Brooks, is in fact, the first female to sign a pro contract in America in pro baseball since Ila Borders. Ms. Brooks signed on March 4, 2010 over a month prior to Yoshida, with the Big Bend Cowboys of the Continental Baseball League (www.bigbendcowboys.com). Ms. Brooks is also a Pitcher, but plays 1B as well.


"minor-league-team-signs-female-pitcher"

http://www.newser.com/story/85653/minor-league-team-signs-female-pitcher.html

I guess Danica Patrick is not involved in a sport with men, the Indy 500 allows only chimpanzees and women eh?:drum:

Shirley Muldowney raced against only chicks huh? Don Garlits was a chick? You are a liar and punk, with Spam for brains.:spam:

You know so much....not...........so much of what you know, just is not true.

Yeah, put them against the Yankees.

All you can do is play a game of facts and fictions which are irrelevant.

You are a feminist. Equals all your insults :chuckle:
 

Christ's Word

New member
Yeah, put them against the Yankees.

All you can do is play a game of facts and fictions which are irrelevant.

You are a feminist. Equals all your insults :chuckle:


Actually the home town Cardinals are the World Champs, and their best hitter for the last 10 years was Albert Pujols. Watched Jenny Finch strike him out on 3 straight riseballs. He was only about a foot under each pitch. Albert's quote after being embarrassed, " I don't never want to see nothing like dat again!" Check the video on you tube, or whatever, the internet is your friend, obviously fact and truth are not.

You will just have to get over the fact that there are already hundreds of women flying combat aircraft and trained for combat in our carrier battle groups. I can see how that hurts your soft male ego, so get over yourself.
 

Christ's Word

New member
More facts for the little morons......Reality just hurts the male ego...pooooor baaabies, do you need your mommies?



Recent policy changes on women in combat:

1992

The Defense Authorization Act repealed the long-standing combat exclusion law for women pilots in the Navy and Air Force.

1993

President Clinton signed the military bill ending combat exclusion for women on combatant ships.

1994

Defense Secretary Aspin approved a new general policy to allow Army women to serve with some ground combat units during fighting.

The USS EISENHOWER, a Navy combat aircraft carrier, received its first 60 women.

Navy

The initial embarkation of women on combat ships during FY94 included eight ships. Two of those eight were aircraft carriers, four were destroyers and two were dock landing ships. The accelerated integration plan called for assigning women to a variety of ships including cruisers, amphibious assault ships and all pre-commissioning Arleigh Burke-class destroyers completed in FY96.

Female officers are eligible to serve in all of the Navy's officer communities except submarines (policy currently under review) and special warfare (SEALs). Thus, women can occupy 93.5 percent of the officer billets in the Navy. Enlisted women are eligible to serve in 97 percent of career fields (91 of 94 job classifications). Women are eligible to serve in 95.1 percent of the enlisted billets in the Navy.

A total of 283 female Naval officers serve as pilots (206) and Naval Flight Officers (77). In addition, there are about 127 women in training to fly combat aircraft. 54 women have already reported to combat aviation squadrons. (pre-1999 figures)

Women are now aboard combatant ships, thousands of enlisted women and officers are "serving at sea", and ten Navy women now command ships.
 

bybee

New member
More facts for the little morons......Reality just hurts the male ego...pooooor baaabies, do you need your mommies?



Recent policy changes on women in combat:

1992

The Defense Authorization Act repealed the long-standing combat exclusion law for women pilots in the Navy and Air Force.

1993

President Clinton signed the military bill ending combat exclusion for women on combatant ships.

1994

Defense Secretary Aspin approved a new general policy to allow Army women to serve with some ground combat units during fighting.

The USS EISENHOWER, a Navy combat aircraft carrier, received its first 60 women.

Navy

The initial embarkation of women on combat ships during FY94 included eight ships. Two of those eight were aircraft carriers, four were destroyers and two were dock landing ships. The accelerated integration plan called for assigning women to a variety of ships including cruisers, amphibious assault ships and all pre-commissioning Arleigh Burke-class destroyers completed in FY96.

Female officers are eligible to serve in all of the Navy's officer communities except submarines (policy currently under review) and special warfare (SEALs). Thus, women can occupy 93.5 percent of the officer billets in the Navy. Enlisted women are eligible to serve in 97 percent of career fields (91 of 94 job classifications). Women are eligible to serve in 95.1 percent of the enlisted billets in the Navy.

A total of 283 female Naval officers serve as pilots (206) and Naval Flight Officers (77). In addition, there are about 127 women in training to fly combat aircraft. 54 women have already reported to combat aviation squadrons. (pre-1999 figures)

Women are now aboard combatant ships, thousands of enlisted women and officers are "serving at sea", and ten Navy women now command ships.

If you really are a woman you need some estrogen!
 

fool

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
You just need to face the fact that nature conveys: we are like lions. The lionesses do not hunt, they man the fort.
OK;
Let's go face those http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion.
Lionesses do the majority of the hunting for their pride, being smaller, swifter and more agile than the males, and unencumbered by the heavy and conspicuous mane, which causes overheating during exertion. They act as a co-ordinated group in order to stalk and bring down the prey successfully.
Now that you know you've had that wrong for your whole life let's see what else you have to say;
You have to be the QB to be the MVP, not the punter :thumb:

Suprise suprise you actually (accidentally) hit the nail on the head.
That's exactly what this is all about. The military can be a great carreer with alot of benifits if you stick it out for the long haul. Getting those promotions is the key to the rise to the top and distingushing ones self in combat is an avenue that can fast track one thru that system.
This is not available to women, that's all they want.
We are not swinging swords at each other on horseback anymore this is 2012.
We need intelligence more than muscle. It's stupid to pass up a genius IQ because the body it rides around in can do a few less pushups than the average male.
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
:doh:

Wow. Talk about stepping on a rake.

I saw that "lions and lionesses" bit and really hoped someone would nail him for that. Thank you fool.:cheers:

Here's what lions actually do: take over the pride, kill the young, then impregnate the females so as to spread their own seed. Charming.
 
Top