Let's not argue Paul. Have I become your enemy by telling you the truth?
toldailytopic: Eternal torment, Annihilationism or Universalism, which do you believe
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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Let's not argue Paul. Have I become your enemy by telling you the truth?
Then why do you incessantly use the term ECT to miscaracterize our view? Sure seems deliberate since you admit God does not torture.
Also, if man is not born eternal how is annihilation punishment?
Letsargue
New member
BOY!!! ---- OK!! ---- However, that's no way to Prove all things, but some does it that way. - And I called you a "LIAR", --- WHERE?? - What is that?? - All people exposses themselves as to what they are, by what they teach, and that is or not from the TRUTH, and that's not a LIE!!!
BY!!!
Paul -- 040513
toldaily topic: "Eternal Torment, Annihilationism or Universalism..."
I use the term ECT, abbreviating Eternal Conscious Torment, because that is what your view is called. ECT doesn't stand for "Eternal Conscious Torture", so I am not mischaracterizing your view at all. I can't call it "Eternal Punishment" because both ECT and Annihiltionism agree that there is eternal punishment. We disagree on the form the punishment takes. I think the punishment for sin is death, because Paul wrote "the wages of sin is death", and the final punishment is called "the second death".
The wages of sin is death. Why is it that you think death is not punishment? And what makes you think that man is born eternal? The bible doesn't say this. Even if man were born eternal, being annihilated would certainly be a punishment. I've never understood the false claims of people who say "Being completely destroyed is no punishment at all". It is certainly a punishment. It is being completely destroyed.
I never said that you called me a liar.
I know. I think you guys call your view "The one and only true gospel believed by all the best and true God fearing Christians Throughout time and forever". I can't call it that, since ECT contradicts the Bible. I showed you that Eternal Torment is the commonly accepted term for your view. I'm sorry if the term is offensive to you, but isn't that the price you pay for holding an offensive doctrine?
If you wish. You could call it the "Romans 6:23 View", or the "John 3:16 View", or you could simply call it "The gospel".
Aimiel
Well-known member
As in: those who buy into it close their eyes to ECT-related Scriptures? :rotfl:
Letsargue
New member
Ask Mr. Religion
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Indeed, brother. Thank you for pointing this out as it seem to get lost in the discussion or the two are conflated.
AMR
I lean toward eternal punishment. The torment comes for being separated from God forever. God isn't there like a kid with a lighter burning spiders. They are found guilty and tossed out.
Verses about punishment for the devil, demons and those that reject Christ.
Luke 13:28 -There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Matthew 25:41 - Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
My question is, if it annihilates the punished--why have it burn forever? That is why I don't lean toward Annihilationism.
What do you think AMR does God uncreate anything? I mean in regard to the human soul which I think is undying.
Letsargue
New member
The crucifiction was both and so is Hell. Sometimes it CAN be both!!! AGAIN!!
Paul -- 040513
Autumn Delight
New member
Universalism~~
We all have our own views of what this even means, but of course I'd have to choose Universalism.
We all have our own views of what this even means, but of course I'd have to choose Universalism.
This: You replied to my post with this statement:
Rather than accepting that I am a Christian, you said that I am a "So-Called-Christian", Not a real Christian, but just pretending to be Christian. Then you said that I don't read the scriptures, and tried to "prove" that with 3 unrelated scriptures.
Paul, I can see that you only want to argue, so I am not going to respond to you anymore. If you wish to apologize and move past this, let me know.
I am a Christian and I do read the Scriptures, so your claim is not true.
So labels do matter when they misrepresent YOU, but if they misrepresent OTHERS you persist in using them.
Hypocrite!
Letsargue
New member
I don't just speak to you, but to ALL!!
I also quoted GOD, that we shall know (( THEM )) by their Fruits. – The Fruits are what comes out of the Mouths, from the Heart of (( THEM )) all. – And what comes our of (( SOME )) mouths are excuses for their doctrines without the Fruits of the Knowledge from the Tree of Life!!!!! ------ Don’t respond then; --- and again it’s the Fruits that does or does not precede out of the mouth of (( THEM )). ---- Matthew 15:11 KJV --- 11- “Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, - this defileth a man”.---&--- Matthew 15:18 KJV --- 18- “But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man”. ------//--- There are those who can’t say the Words of God to defend themselves and their god, as did Jesus in the wilderness, against Satan!! – We are to do as He did. --- I’m just saying the Truth as it is; -- that which comes out of my mouth from my heart. --- We are to (( “Rebuke” )) those who fail to follow the Lord in our walk in Faith in the Words of Truth. --- 2 Timothy 4:2-3 KJV --- 2- “Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, (( Rebuke )), exhort ( with all longsuffering and doctrine ). 3- For the time will come ( when they will not endure sound doctrine ); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears”; -----///---
Paul – 040613
Now along with you, I and many others here at TOL have been told the same thing. We've called fools, false prophets, false teachers, false whatever we've been called by Letsargue, along with ignorant, foolish, unlearned, pretenders.
Your response of you're not going to respond to Letsargue anymore is best :thumb:, that's what I've done :e4e:. Will Letsargue come around to reason, that is question for the ages.
Letsargue may reply to this, so no matter, it will not matter.
Your response of you're not going to respond to Letsargue anymore is best :thumb:, that's what I've done :e4e:. Will Letsargue come around to reason, that is question for the ages.
Letsargue may reply to this, so no matter, it will not matter.
Last edited:
Hypocrite?
I never said that you were a "so-called-christian", and you would be correct to object if I did. I don't misrepresent people who believe that the lost must endure eternal conscious torment in hell by referring to them as people who believe the lost must endure eternal conscious torment in hell.
I see that you have to indulge in name-calling. Okay, call me a hypocrite if it makes you feel better about the doctrine you hold. In the meantime, I know that I am a Bible-Believing-Christian.