toldailytopic: End times. Are we in them?

[Trumpetfolker]

@ STP

@ STP

As you wish, One-Who-Will-Not-Believe-Unless-He-Sees. Of course, I, myself, am still in the process of training my heart to disregard doubt. I am still exercising my senses to discern good and evil- evil being any thing which comes not of faith.

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

2 Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

Mt 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

Mt 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

Mr 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for men of full growth, even for those whose senses are trained by use to see what is good and what is evil.

Ro 14:23 But he who is in doubt is judged if he takes food, because he does it not in faith; and whatever is not of faith is sin.

In obedience to the gospel, I work with my hands supporting myself, rather than divide spoil with the proud, defrauding my brethren.

1Th 4:1 ¶ Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
...
11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

2 Thes 3:6 ¶ Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
8 Neither did we eat any man’s bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
13 But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.
14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Ac 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
33 I have coveted no man’s silver, or gold, or apparel.
34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

In the passages, above, you will find imperative statements that constitute some of the works which we are commanded to do in faith. Therefore, I work with my hands, but, I don't feed people who call themselves preachers but pretend to be too good for manual labor. I don't even go into their companies/churches. I watch out for people who dress up like sheep but who do the works of wolves. And I share with the poor.
Though America has become a place where manual labor has no honor, I continue in it getting poorer because of my choice to follow Paul as he followed Christ. Though poor, I keep my wife at home and still support the widows in my life.

Tt 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

1 Tm 5:3 ¶ Honour widows that are widows indeed.
4 But if any widow have children or nephews, let them learn first to shew piety at home, and to requite their parents: for that is good and acceptable before God.

I teach the younger men to be sober rather than getting drunk with the things that inebriate America- like covetousness.

Tt 2:6 Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.
7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

I stay out of debt (except with an injury last year which forced me into an emergency room).

Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

1Co 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

Pr 22:7 The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Lu 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

As with this post, I obey the command to be ready to give an answer for my hope.

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

By verbalizing my hope (knowing that that which is seen is not hope), I show that I have sanctified the Lord God in my heart.
I do these things (and others) knowing that, if I am not faithful in that which is another's, I will not be given my own. If you are waiting to see me raise some one from the dead before you will obey the gospel of Christ, I must leave you in your unblessed condition.
However, I have received dreams concerning things knowledge of which had not been given to me through my fleshly senses. Upon relating them to the people to which they pertained, along with the interpretation, those Christians have been amazed that God was big enough and gracious enough to comfort in that way.
Other times, words of wisdom, discerning of spirits, and words of knowledge have been activated in me. (Yet, I'm still leaning on the comfort that God's grace is my only sufficiency.)

Lu 16:10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man’s, who shall give you that which is your own?
13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.

Until you have practiced the works passed down to us from the apostles of Lord Jesus Christ, you have a hard time seeing Jesus in scripture and recognizing that His doctrine is from the Father. If you have a hard time recognizing that the doctrine of Jesus comes from the Father, you will have doubts in your heart that will keep you from receiving anything from God.

Jm 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

As the Pharisees who loved money, you will hear the commands of Jesus and deride Him. However, the faithful man will obey the commands of Jesus and His apostles until he sees how those behaviors, meekly conducted, bring him into the fruitfulness of the Spirit and the pleasure of the Father (not that our works gain God's pleasure as much as that those works convince our own hearts that we are pleasing to Him). They are the training in the secret things of God which would still be a mystery except that Jesus came.

Joh 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me.
22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.

Jesus gave us the words of life. Faith is exercised by doing the commandments of Jesus and the apostles. That is "sowing to the Spirit".

Ga 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

The word interpreted 'communicate' comes from the same word interpreted 'had all things common' in Acts 2 and Acts 4. The 'all things' included the doctrine that the apostles taught.
In other words, those first disciples understood that, if they wanted to be like the Master of which the apostles bore witness, they had to be faithful in that which was another's.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

As you wish, One-Who-Will-Not-Believe-Unless-He-Sees. Of course, I, myself, am still in the process of training my heart to disregard doubt. I am still exercising my senses to discern good and evil- evil being any thing which comes not of faith.

So, you haven't yet accomplished one work which the Lord did? And, none greater?

 

[Wanda Short]

Hi Trumpetfolker!

I am not a dispensationalist! Blessings! w

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Hi Trumpetfolker!

I am not a dispensationalist! Blessings! w

Hi Wanda,

Are you not thankful for the dispensation of the grace of God that was given to Paul, to you-ward?

 

[chrysostom]

Hi Wanda,

Are you not thankful for the dispensation of the grace of God that was given to Paul, to you-ward?

it may be a trick question

 

[Krsto]

it may be a trick question

Not a trick - just poor hermaneutics. The presence of dispensations in the bible seems for some to be all they need to make up their own like speaking in tongues was only until we had a bible.

 

[Trumpetfolker]

@ Krsto

@ Krsto

Actually, the Bible never speaks of 'dispensations'. It doesn't ever speak of a dispensation of "x" in contrast with a dispensation of "y".
What it does speak of is "the dispensation of the grace of God". God has been dispensing grace as long as there have been sinners.
What there has been is a changes of priesthoods which handle the dispensation of God- hence, stewardship.
Take a look.

Lu 16:2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship <3622> ; for thou mayest be no longer steward.
Lu 16:3 Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship <3622>: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
Lu 16:4 I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship <3622>, they may receive me into their houses.
1Co 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation <3622> of the gospel is committed unto me.
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation <3622> of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation <3622> of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation <3622> of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

The dispensation of God is attended through a series of times.
Guys like STP hate the person which is truth because the sayings of Jesus require them to take up a cross.

Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Thus, they accept a contrived theology which, super-imposed upon the Word of God, allows them to say that the words of Jesus are only for the Jews.
The wrath of God is coming upon men like this for their opposition to the truth.

Ro 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Ro 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Ro 2:2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
Ro 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

2 Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Oh no... it's Sozo]

Why is that depressing? You prefer to still be under the Old Covenant and the Law??

Not me, I rejoice that the we live in the New Covenant and in the presence of God with no more barriers!

I feel bad for anyone believing that these are the last days and that this "world" will end...relax...the last days already happened in the first century!

Blessings!

Manifests sons of God, right? A disciple of William Branham or the devil worshiping Mike Bickle?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Guys like STP hate the person which is truth because the sayings of

So, you haven't yet done one of the works of the Lord, and none greater? Why not?

 

[Trumpetfolker]

@ STP

@ STP

OK. Yes, by the grace of God and faith in the name of Jesus, I have, like Jesus in his own country, healed a few sick people.
According to the apostles and Jesus Christ, Himself, doubt/unbelief keeps dunamis from happening. The unbelief can be the fault of the one trying to do the dunamis. However, the unbelief of the sick can keep dunamis from happening.

Mt 13:54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
55 Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Mk 6:1 ¶ And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him.
2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
4 But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

Mt 17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

So, in an environment like the ones you approve, dunamis can't happen. The problem is unbelief (which the Bible explains) and not about dispensations (the plurality of which is ignored in the Bible).

 

[Oh no... it's Sozo]

I have, like Jesus in his own country, healed a few sick people.

Liar.

 

[Buzzword]

Rapture Ready says yes.

Rapture Ready is a good site if you enjoy schadenfreude.

TOL has been that at times as well.


This thread is a great example of why I ditched eschatology a few years back, after holding it as my favorite area of theological study for almost two decades.

It was fun as a child and as an English major attempting to find meaning in the massive quantities of symbolism found in Daniel, Revelation, and elsewhere in the Bible.

Especially given that human language has expanded drastically since the eschatological accounts were written.

However, when I attempted to enter a public forum on the subject (a college theology class), I found that the issue is far too deeply divisive to allow anyone but extremely close friends to civilly discuss.

Plus, being a married man, it takes far too much energy to simply chug through day-to-day life to waste time and effort on a subject which, in effect, has no practical value in helping one live a Christian life.

To answer the initial question:
No, I do not believe we are in the "end times".

Since 2000, I have believed that whatever the initial event heralding the end of the world (a rapture, an asteroid, 500+ nukes going off at once,etc.), it will happen when NO ONE, not even a single pastor whom everyone thinks is a nutjob sitting in his study with his hands over his head, expects.

The only eschatological bible verse which I ascribe any practical value to is 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3

1Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

And that only because it encourages Christians to live every day to the fullest as they walk with God and with each other.

 

[Trumpetfolker]

@ STP
Now, there is a difference between ergon and dunamis. Jesus said we would do "ergon" like His.

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works <2041> that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Notice that the condition for doing the 'ergon' works that Jesus did requires faith/belief on Him- the less unbelief, the greater the works.
See what 'ergon' as Jesus meant it.

Mt 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works <2041>, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Joh 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work <2041>.

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work <2041> of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works <2041> of God should be made manifest in him.

Some day, ...

Mt 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

... all offenders and doers of iniquity will be removed from the environment, and the full brilliance of the faith of those who believe on Jesus will be manifest.

 

[Doug Wright]

"the Son comes"[I][/I]

cries of jerusalem in 70 AD at the vision above

 

[Lighthouse]

Not a trick - just poor hermaneutics. The presence of dispensations in the bible seems for some to be all they need to make up their own like speaking in tongues was only until we had a bible.

It's a Bible verse.

If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
-Ephesians 3:2 KJV

 

[Trumpetfolker]

@ STP
Did that yesterday. Got a new job to do, today.

 

[Trumpetfolker]

@ Sozo
Jesus says that we will do things you don't believe we will do using words like "If any man" and "whosever".

Mr 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Lu 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Some come to Jesu, hear, and are offended. They don't believe.

Mt 13:54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
55 Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

I came to Jesus, heard, and was careful how I heard. I was not offended.I heard as a disciple. Therefore, I am blessed.

Lu 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.
23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Lu 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.
17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.
18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

So, I am fruitful where you are not, and you judge me by your experience, alone; and not by the declarations of Jesus.

 

[Trumpetfolker]

@ Sozo

@ Sozo

Ro 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 ¶ And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

We who believe that Paul was taught through revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ are sure that he is talking to us, here, since he uses the second person plural pronoun, and- since he was the servant of God who is not a respecter of persons- because Paul, himself, was not a respecter of persons.
In fact, Paul commanded the Romans to mark people who did not teach this message.

Ro 16:17 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Are you setting yourself up to be marked as a servant of your own belly and not our Lord Jesus Christ?

 

[Trumpetfolker]

@ Sozo

@ Sozo

The manifestation of the sons of God is what Jesus was talking about, here.

Mt 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

There are people who use their dominion to oppose the faith of Jesus in us. The resistance which they provide makes believers exercise their senses to know good and evil. They force us to get stronger.
Someday, the opposers will be removed by the angels sent forth by Jesus. When that happens, the faith that their constant and progressive resistance has built in us will be manifest.
That manifestation will be characterized by the kind of power that could be used to speak to mountains without doubt in our hearts, and see them flip off into the sea.
Prophet after prophet describes a time when the believers, the children of the houses of Israel and Judah, return to the land from which our fathers were driven. Then the earth will become extremely productive for us. Thus, though, at first, it seems the land that is given to us is too small, it's super-productivity becomes proof to all that the claims of the Word of God are sure in Jesus name.