No, it isn't.
Consciousness isn't energy.
It's not physical.
When you talk about the soul, you have to strip away every conception that you have of material/sense objects.
toldailytopic: Do you believe in reincarnation?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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No, it isn't.
Consciousness isn't energy.
It's not physical.
When you talk about the soul, you have to strip away every conception that you have of material/sense objects.
Consciousness/mind must be intertwined with physical energy at some point and at least to some degree with the brain, because the brain is the conduit between mind and matter. The brain runs on physical energy, and this physical energy must survive the physical body and remain in the physical universe. Because this energy is physical, it belongs to the physical universe from which it came and returns to it at death. What becomes of it?
Your conceptions are confused. Consciousness/mind/soul is a causal principle ontologically prior to and more efficacious than the physical reality it governs. You are thinking of the participation of the physical world in mind as itself being bodily: thus the reason you say "intertwined." But the way that the physical world participates in mind is not corporeal. It's not as though a piece of the soul actuated this part of body, and another piece actuates that part.
Rather, the entire soul, as a partless whole, actuates all parts of the body. The soul operates upon physical reality, not through bodily/corporeal participation, but by an overflow of reality.
The brain isn't conscious.
Do animals have souls? Are animals conscious?
You've confused my point. A brain, to the extent that it is a brain, is a physical/corporeal reality. No physical/corporeality reality, qua physical/corporeal reality, is conscious. Consciousness is a psychic (in the Greek etymological sense of "of or relating to soul") reality, not a corporeal reality.
Yes, it is the case that at least certain subjects who have brains are conscious. But this is because they have not only corporeal reality, but psychic (again, in the Greek etymological sense) reality as well.
That's fine. I'm just wondering if you think animals have souls. Are animals conscious?
Yes, I think that animals have souls. That said, the animal soul is so fully "sunk into" the matter that it cannot exist without it. Thus, when the animal dies, the form (the soul) perishes also.
They don't have reason. Various philosophers assert that they have some cognitive function. I'm unwilling to admit this; I'm generally more Cartesian in my view of animals.
What's unique about the human soul is that it is a form which actuates the body (makes the body the kind of thing that it is; thus, necessarily, the soul is ontologically prior to the physical reality which it actuates); nonetheless, it is not so sunk into the body that it cannot exist without it. It is separable from the body and can survive the death of the body.
Aside from being the form of the body, it is also a rational substance.
What of the human being who is mentally handicapped and does not have reason? Infants also do not have reason.
Many animals have more reason than some human beings. Remember Koko the gorilla, who was taught to communicate in sign language? She also understands about 2000 words of spoken English.
All human beings, insofar as they are human beings, have reason. That's what man is: "Rational animal."
No, they don't. Non-human animals are distinguished from man in this: they lack the perfection that man has, namely, the faculty of reason.
She understands nothing.
Koko has a tested IQ of between 70 and 95 on a human scale, where 100 is considered "normal." -- Source: http://www.koko.org/world/
It may look like s/he has an IQ between 70-95. But s/he doesn't. S/he is not a rational being.
She appears to be.
Look, Paulos, if you won't accept my arguments, then accept the authoritative teachings of Christ's Church. I know for a fact that you know of the Divine Mercy image. You are familiar with St. Faustina. What is more central than her thought than obedience to the Church?
The Church teaches that man alone, in all the visible creater order, is created in the image and likeness of God: man alone is a rational animal. He alone has an immortal soul. He lives once, after which He's judged. And there's no second chances.
That's why it's so important to venerate the Divine Mercy. Because if you don't have recourse to it now...
Quincy
New member
Consciousness seems to be a projection of our senses, produced by the brain in a very physical way while what people interpret as spirit also appears to be a sensate reaction in and of the physical. I suppose there is nothing wrong with believing in a duality/triality but it seems like wrongly separating mind, body and soul when they are in fact part of one reality.
I hope you aren't taking offense at my dialog. I'm not denying any doctrine, nor do I assert that reincarnation is fact. But we should be willing to consider the pro and con arguments. Sometimes, in the course of discussion, observations and assertions must be made in order to pursue further thought and inquiry into the topic. That's what I'm doing here.
Have you read the second post in this thread? I would appreciate your opinion of what was posted.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Rebirth
Rebirth
~*~*~
Yes (but such is a matter of 'qualification').
The subject on various levels and dimensions is discussed in my 'Reincarnation' thread. Those interested in a more in-depth study may research thereby. - it is a complex subject by nature as various schools look at the 'soul' differently.
My view however is a more philosophical/fluid interpretation of the term which covers the transformation of souls in all their various cycles, the re-embodying of spirit, energy and personality.
pj
Rebirth
~*~*~
Yes (but such is a matter of 'qualification').
The subject on various levels and dimensions is discussed in my 'Reincarnation' thread. Those interested in a more in-depth study may research thereby. - it is a complex subject by nature as various schools look at the 'soul' differently.
My view however is a more philosophical/fluid interpretation of the term which covers the transformation of souls in all their various cycles, the re-embodying of spirit, energy and personality.
pj
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freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Hebrews 9:27 fail
Hebrews 9:27 fail
You mean the 'anonymous' writer of the book of Hebrews wrote those words.
Many bring up this verse of Heb. 9:27 as some kind of proof-text against reincarnation, but its quite weak.
Hebrews 9:27 Does Not Disprove Reincarnation
pj
Hebrews 9:27 fail
You mean the 'anonymous' writer of the book of Hebrews wrote those words.
Many bring up this verse of Heb. 9:27 as some kind of proof-text against reincarnation, but its quite weak.
Hebrews 9:27 Does Not Disprove Reincarnation
pj
Charity
New member
All you need to do: is believe you have been born again! Hence alive in your promise: In the originL manner, dispite those whom baptized an believe the dead rise not! Yet hear! An baptize themselves to rise latter! It's all about ones timing! Complete with two resurrections, which decides an devides the souls in their state of heart. Some quickened! Some still sleeping!
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
so much for mercy.......
so much for mercy.......
The question here is why believe in a 'church' that claims man is rational but asks him to believe in 'irrational' doctrines? A 'god' who only lets man live once (one embodiment) then judges him to go to either 'heaven' or 'hell' with no second chances for salvation is not merciful, wise or loving....for divine mercy would provide something more effective granting salvation or reformation for all. Free will may factor into these things but thats another discussion.
Fear threatens......Love calls.
Much is made of this divine mercy....which the scripture says is everlasting. God's LOVE is infinite. Even if it is possible that a soul could eternally reject 'God' or make a final choice of self-destruction....Love's eternal power and provision remains. I've shared elsewhere the view that as long as a soul has the ability/capability to respond to love, Love avails itself to it.
God's Love is infinite, or it is not.
pj
so much for mercy.......
The question here is why believe in a 'church' that claims man is rational but asks him to believe in 'irrational' doctrines? A 'god' who only lets man live once (one embodiment) then judges him to go to either 'heaven' or 'hell' with no second chances for salvation is not merciful, wise or loving....for divine mercy would provide something more effective granting salvation or reformation for all. Free will may factor into these things but thats another discussion.
Fear threatens......Love calls.
Much is made of this divine mercy....which the scripture says is everlasting. God's LOVE is infinite. Even if it is possible that a soul could eternally reject 'God' or make a final choice of self-destruction....Love's eternal power and provision remains. I've shared elsewhere the view that as long as a soul has the ability/capability to respond to love, Love avails itself to it.
God's Love is infinite, or it is not.
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
dumb beliefs.......
dumb beliefs.......
Yet such a concept is held elsewhere by greek philosophers taken for granted. Interesting......
'Authoritatively' here is an 'exaggeration'. In fact more passages could be used in support of 'rebirth' than against, for there are no specific passages that emphatically deny it.
I use the term 'rebirth' and 'reincarnation' interchangably. The former is a simpler term I picked up from the Rosicrucians.
Of course this holds no weight for those who do not consider her 'holiness' to be a final or only authority.
pj
dumb beliefs.......
Yet such a concept is held elsewhere by greek philosophers taken for granted. Interesting......
'Authoritatively' here is an 'exaggeration'. In fact more passages could be used in support of 'rebirth' than against, for there are no specific passages that emphatically deny it.
I use the term 'rebirth' and 'reincarnation' interchangably. The former is a simpler term I picked up from the Rosicrucians.
Of course this holds no weight for those who do not consider her 'holiness' to be a final or only authority.
pj