Oh no... it's Sozo
New member
So God's children are not in bondage to the law, but God is?
The Law was made for the unrighteous 1 Tim 1:9. God is Spirit, and against the Spirit, there is no law Gal 5:23
You are making the law greater than God.
toldailytopic: Did God choose an eternity ago who would, and who wouldn't, be saved?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
- Status
The Law was made for the unrighteous 1 Tim 1:9. God is Spirit, and against the Spirit, there is no law Gal 5:23
You are making the law greater than God.
I believe Jesus had the ability to do so, but refused. Speaking of when he was in the flesh.
"Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne, O God. If Jesus Christ had bowed His knee to Satan, sin would have entered the Godhead, and God would have come undone.
I agree. That is how I see it. In fact, I don't see really anything I disagree with. Your original question was my comment to godrulz. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing. He likes to talk about open theism, but not as a description of God's character, but about the uncertainty of the future. I am judging him and saying he likes the idea that a person can be unsaved because he wants to be righteous on his own account. But he is a wolf, and he says otherwise, I will just lay his quotes in here so you can see them for yourself.
I don't think he is making the law greater than God. It is sort of like calling godrulz a worthless turd and wolf. It is just a description. At the other end of the scale of course.
Oh no... it's Sozo
New member
If God must obey the Law to be righteous, then the law is greater than God.
CALVARY\CALVIN
New member
WOW!! that was beautifully,& simplisticly stated!!! To think anyother way is absured;it's like believing"run"means to"standstill"or "cat" really means "dog"!!!I think that that is what the parable of the wheat and tares is all about. And I think that that is what is meant by "the elect" when it's used. And I think that that is what is meant by "foreordained" when it's used. I think that it is suggested by the word "chosen" when God uses it to refer to those He calls His own.
There are plenty of great theologians who will say it much prettier and give the exact Scripture references together with language study, context analysis, and reliance on the clear and unambiguous Scriptures to inform about the less clear and seemingly ambiguous ones - plus a lot of stuff that I forget all the time.
This is not much more than Sozo's "yes," but it is what I can manage just now
Skeptical Inquirer
New member
Did you have these characteristics before you were born in eternity past?
If you were humble, fearful, and lowly of spirit then why did you have to change?
If you did not choose to change does that mean that you wanted to go on living in opposition to God?
If this was true then where was the humble, fearful and lowly spirit you received before the creation of the world?
If God choose to make you humble, fearful and lowly of spirit then why did He start out by making you different and then have to go about changing you?
I thought you said that you were already saved from the foundation of the world, so why would there be a day of eternal salvation?
CALVARY\CALVIN
New member
EL SHADDIA,my EVERLASTING ABBA YAHWEH OF my EVERLASTING YESHUAH MESSIAH,& HOLY GHOST!
EL SHADDIA,my EVERLASTING ABBA YAHWEH OF my EVERLASTING YESHUAH MESSIAH,& HOLY GHOST!
If i daily fretted myself with the worst trifle of all belief's to ever enter into Christiandom;the belief(so called,really 1 massive attack,& dis-upon belief)the belief that the ETERNAL SALVATION,& destiny of my soul depended & rested upon the "mighty shoulder's"of my ficklest,of "all" (fickle) & feeble(freewill's);and that 1 wrong choice(at any given moment),or turn in the wrong direction would be my eternal damnation! i would count myself to be of "all" men,the most miserable of all possible existance's,and already in the pit's of hell!!!!! i would soon depart from Christianity as fast as i possablely could,if i believed that to be it's truth! And seek the narvina of Hindu salvation:which is to cease from existance or from existing forever!!!!!!1 O' Lord God please poor out upon Your Church The Spirit of Truth to lead His feeble flock back into the very Presence of All Truth once again!!! HalleluJah<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Weh,Amen!:wazzup::drum:
EL SHADDIA,my EVERLASTING ABBA YAHWEH OF my EVERLASTING YESHUAH MESSIAH,& HOLY GHOST!
If i daily fretted myself with the worst trifle of all belief's to ever enter into Christiandom;the belief(so called,really 1 massive attack,& dis-upon belief)the belief that the ETERNAL SALVATION,& destiny of my soul depended & rested upon the "mighty shoulder's"of my ficklest,of "all" (fickle) & feeble(freewill's);and that 1 wrong choice(at any given moment),or turn in the wrong direction would be my eternal damnation! i would count myself to be of "all" men,the most miserable of all possible existance's,and already in the pit's of hell!!!!! i would soon depart from Christianity as fast as i possablely could,if i believed that to be it's truth! And seek the narvina of Hindu salvation:which is to cease from existance or from existing forever!!!!!!1 O' Lord God please poor out upon Your Church The Spirit of Truth to lead His feeble flock back into the very Presence of All Truth once again!!! HalleluJah<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Weh,Amen!:wazzup::drum:
Oh no... it's Sozo
New member
Another moron who rejects the Gospel that IS the power of God unto salvation.
Skeptical Inquirer
New member
Then King David did not have eternal life abiding in him?
Skeptical Inquirer
New member
How about this passage?
Deu 30:19
elohiym
Well-known member
No murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
As for David specifically...
1Ki 15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.
Apparently, David repented.
Who would believe something silly like that?
elohiym
Well-known member
No, Tom, you're not. One is either a slave to sin, or a slave to righteousness. You didn't even choose to be a slave, but are born into bondage.
Faith is a gift from God; it's not self generated. You lacked the faith to receive salvation until God gave it to you. Therefore, it's impossible that you are free to accept God without divine intervention.
Whoever sins is a slave to sin. The carnal mind cannot choose to be subject to the law of God; it's impossible. The carnal mind is always enmity against God.
Nope. If you don't believe, you will burn in hellfire.
Belief is not a choice.
You have it backwards. The first premise is false. The second and third premises are true.
Man cannot "do" anything "right" so he will not burn in hell. Salvation is not by works, but by grace through faith. Hence, the first premise falls.
The carnal mind cannot be subject to the law of God. It is always enmity against God. Hence, man is not "free" to choose to do the right thing. The second premise is proven.
The third premise is not in dispute. Man will burn in hellfire. The children of God will not burn in hellfire. Mal 4:3.
You just conceded that we do not have "free" will. Whether you see it or not, that's what you just did.
But you lacked the faith to receive Him until God gave it to you. Again, revealing that we do not have a "free" will.
Choice does not automatically imply free will, Tom.
The carnal mind is not free to choose to do God's will. It can choose from a plethora of sins only. That's not "free" choice. Rom 8:7.
elohiym
Well-known member
John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Could it be said any clearer than that?
YOU are not "free" to choose to believe.
Could it be said any clearer than that?
YOU are not "free" to choose to believe.
CALVARY\CALVIN
New member
I dig your style,Calvary/Calvin1 Timothy 2:3-7 (New King James Version)
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying—a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
So, yes! God decided way back when who would, and who wouldn't be saved.
He decided everyone would be saved. Then, when He created us, He gave us free will and the power to disagree with that decision and reject it.
Why in the world would He do that?
1 John 4:19 (New King James Version)
19 We love Him because He first loved us.
John 13:34 (New King James Version)
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
Deuteronomy 23:5 (New King James Version)
5 Nevertheless the LORD your God would not listen to Balaam, but the LORD your God turned the curse into a blessing for you, because the LORD your God loves you.
Because you don't take the ones you love against their will.
Oh no... it's Sozo
New member
Calvary/Calvin,justconverted
A misunderstanding, is exactly right.
Not sure what you're getting at?
Are you referring to 2 Timothy 2:13? If you are, what Paul is saying here is an argument that we can't lose our salvation once we have accepted Jesus and are baptized into the Body of Christ: "If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. We are "members" of Christ's Body. So what Paul is saying here is that since we are members of Christ's Body, He will not deny Himself (believers in the Body).
That's not what Hebrews says. "For in that He Himself has suffered, BEING TEMPTED, He is able to aid those who are tempted" (Heb. 2:18). "For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points TEMPTED as we are, YET WITHOUT SIN" (Heb. 4:15).
Hebrews 4:15 is clearly a temptation to "sin." Can you give me Scripture to support your statement that Jesus was tempted to prove that He's God's Son?
Realize that the Old Testamen was translated into Greek (Septuagint) abut 300 years before the coming of Jesus Christ. Two Greek words ( peiraz and dokimaz) are used for temptation. They can mean a test, proof (as in a coin), experiment, trial, and enticement to sin. Much of the King James Version was translated from the Septuagint.
Words can have a wide range of meanings, so we have to look at the meaning in the context of the verse. Satan was not giving Jesus a multiple choice "test" that was going to be graded. Satan was trying his best to entice Jesus to sin. Actually, He offered Jesus the world if Jesus would just bow His knee to Satan.
But we sin.
For some reason, you want to belittle the temptation of Christ by Satan as being a test rather than a temptation. Jesus was flesh and bone, and He was hungry after fasting 40 days and nights. Jesus offered Him food. If that's not a temptation, then I don't know what is.
If Jesus Christ could not sin, then it was not a temptation. The ultimate end of Closed Theism is that God is a Being without a will to act otherwise--just like a programmed computer.
I did not say that is WHY we have faith. I said that it takes no faith to believe in a God who can't act otherwise. God is a free Agent. He can choose to be evil or good. But I thank God that He is voluntarily righteous. If He can't sin, then His righteousness has no meaning or valur.
God bless, Tom from Mabank, TX
Elohiym,
You believe that God chose, before the foundation of the world, who would go to hell and who would be saved. Right?
If so, what happened to all the babies who were killed in the Flood?
Are some in hell (those that God predestined to go there)?
Are some in heaven (those that God predestined to go to heaven)?
God bless, Tom from Mabank, TX
You believe that God chose, before the foundation of the world, who would go to hell and who would be saved. Right?
If so, what happened to all the babies who were killed in the Flood?
Are some in hell (those that God predestined to go there)?
Are some in heaven (those that God predestined to go to heaven)?
God bless, Tom from Mabank, TX
- Status