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The autopilot just got wound up because the thought of people not losing salvation burns him up.
toldailytopic: Did God choose an eternity ago who would, and who wouldn't, be saved?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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The autopilot just got wound up because the thought of people not losing salvation burns him up.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:chuckle:
Personally, I think he hates the idea that a dirty rotten scoundrel can be just as saved as a "good person" like him.
Catatumba
New member
"If you expel prostitution from society, you will unsettle everything on account of lusts."
Augustne of Hippo, Algeria, 430 AD.:dog:
Selaphiel
Well-known member
No. Reading verses about election as verses about individuals is misreading the text. Israel was Gods elected people, does that mean that every individual in Israel was righteous before God? God made a covenant with all people regardless of gender, nation and culture, a covenant made through the cross of Christ. Christ is the high priest for all people, he gives us strength and sustains us through the gift of the Holy Spirit. Anyone who turns to Christ will be a part of this, for he is the true light unto the gentiles (Isaiah 49:6).There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28.
Yes, He predestined the corporate group and the conditions for being part of the group; He did not predestine individuals arbitrarily, but that all who would believe (without determining who would believe or be saved in advance) would be saved.
YYUR
YYUB
UCUR
YY4Me
This question is not a POTS/OSAS question. Open Theists who answer no will reject OSAS. Arminians who also say no, would reject OSAS. Only Calvinists should say yes to eternity/chose and OSAS.
Exactly, a self-determining agent cannot actualize the potential future before they even exist to choose.
The issue is faith vs unbelief, not how good or bad we are. My self-righteousness is as filthy rags. The Pharisees were 'good', yet not saved. The Corinthian saints were rotters, yet saved. MAD is not the only view that is hyper-grace. You don't have a clue about me nor are you omniscient to know my motives.
Son of Jack
New member
I do it all the time...of course I'm not God. Can you? My statement if rephrase as a question would be, "Can you know without choosing?"
Son of Jack
New member
Care to explain how you think it is incoherent.
It is an attempt to retain EDF and free will, but these are logically incompatible. Middle knowledge is not possible since it assumes would vs would not obtain/actualize, but there are also might/might not counterfactuals of freedom.
Huh, what did I say?
William Lane Craig (Molinist) and all the Calvinists, Arminians, Open Theists have endless technical debates on this subject.
http://www.amazon.com/Divine-Foreknowledge-James-K-Beilby/dp/0830826521
Here is a more readable introduction (I favor Boyd's view which he calls neo-Molinism...I would disagree on some details).
lain:
I am sorry it hurts your brain to think, but it is the glory of a king to search out a matter (Prov.) and ignorance is not bliss and forewarned is forearmed (Hezekiah 6:66).
Your denial of self-evident, biblical free will gets you into trouble all along the line. I cannot help you. Go join the hyper-Calvinists if you want to be deterministic. I will stick with biblical, relational, free will theism because it is consistent with love (God is love).
If you want this fish to bite, you will need a better hook/bait. Since you consider me an infidel, respectful theological debate is not possible with you (wot).
Oh no... it's Sozo
New member
elohiym just destroyed your arguments.
Instead of addressing what he said (and more importantly, what the Bible SAYS), you whine and cry again blaming someone else for your failure to answer.
You are a pathetic little pig.
Haven't been called that in awhile. I am the wolf-pig-dog?!
You don't agree with his denial of free will, but you like his perfectionist ideas. Go fight with him, because if you probe enough, you will be calling him a pig too.:argue:
Oh no... it's Sozo
New member
Yep.
Answer his question. You afraid?
Did Paul have free will to do as he wanted to do?
elohiym
Well-known member
I reject Luther-Augustine 'bondage of the will'. Paul had free will to worship Jesus or worship idols. He had free will to kill Christians or not kill Christians. His illustrative struggles in Rom. 7 do not prove your point.
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