Toddler shoots mother in Walmart...

Mark SeaSigh

BANNED
Banned
One Good Point! LOL!!!

Nice Mask "Morpheus", weakling.

image.php


Why do you like that "V" for Vendetta Movie so much?

LOL!!!


What are we talking about, Anyway?


Don't you think US Citizens should have the ability to Defend Themselves from Criminals?




=M=




Oh, and "Morpheus"; What do you think will happen to that Toddler, Now?
 

resodko

BANNED
Banned
... the primary purpose of guns is to shoot and kill (a person or an animal)....

no

the primary purpose of a gun is to fire a bullet, or in most cases, to be prepared to fire a bullet

what one chooses to aim that gun at is determined by circumstances


consider this - if your contention is true, 99.9% of guns never fulfill their "primary purpose"
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
no

the primary purpose of a gun is to fire a bullet, or in most cases, to be prepared to fire a bullet

what one chooses to aim that gun at is determined by circumstances


consider this - if your contention is true, 99.9% of guns never fulfill their "primary purpose"
You are wrong. The primary function if a gun, any gun, is to make killing something more efficient. As you point out, the weapon can be used differently to afford protection without being fired. That does not change the fact that a gun is designed to make killing more efficient.
 

resodko

BANNED
Banned
You are wrong. The primary function if a gun, any gun, is to make killing something more efficient. As you point out, the weapon can be used differently to afford protection without being fired. That does not change the fact that a gun is designed to make killing more efficient.



do you think that "function", "use", "design" and "purpose" all mean the same thing? :think:


regardless, my second point to champ still stands - if true, then 99.9% of guns fail to achieve their intended "function", "use", "design" or "purpose"
 

Morpheus

New member
One Good Point! LOL!!!

Nice Mask "Morpheus", weakling.

image.php


Why do you like that "V" for Vendetta Movie so much?

LOL!!!


What are we talking about, Anyway?


Don't you think US Citizens should have the ability to Defend Themselves from Criminals?




=M=




Oh, and "Morpheus"; What do you think will happen to that Toddler, Now?

Self-defense has never at issue. What is is that unrestrained gun ownership leads to proliferation, which leads to all kinds of weapons being made available in huge numbers to the criminal element, which leads to more fear. It's a downward spiral that leads to disaster. Your fear only makes you less safe and more fearful. Shooting has become the default position, even when the fear is only due to perception with no basis in fact. Then when more guns are in society, with minimal restriction on who gets them, more and more unstable, untrained people have access to them, also with disastrous consequences. Minimally restricted access to firearms is never a good idea, especially in a paranoid society of wannabe cowboys.

I have been around some of thase people who decided it was "fun" to shoot up everything in sight. I've known several "dealers" with federal licenses only so they could sell full-auto weapons, grenades, LAWS rockets, mini guns and 50-cals out of their trunks in the parking lot of a construction site (usually on night shifts). I've known some who bought every weapon they could lay their hands on from private owners just so they could smuggle them across the border to Mexican drug lords. I haven't lived the sheltered life; you have. Your resistance to regulation makes the majority of violent crime possible.

The vast majority of Americans calling for tighter regulation and restriction of firearm sales do not want to deny the sensible, trained adult the ability to defend their home or keep them from hunting game. But nobody needs an assault rifle with a fifty-round mag for either of those ends. Nobody needs 20,30,50 or more firearms to protect their family. In fact it's some of the craziest, most dangerous and unstable people in our society that have those weapons in those numbers.

And who is behind most of the second-amendment hype? The arms manufacturers, and the NRA that is primarily funded by them as their lobbying arm. And what have they turned you into? Both their consumer and their unpaid salesman.


And on a side note​

The truth is that my old buddy, a Viet Nam vet Airborne Ranger, and I used to hunt with single-shot 12-gauge shotguns. On hunting outings we both were known for not missing, while the others typically emptied their autos and pumps with poor results. Essentially what this says is that the greater the capacity firearms only give you a false sense of security. Nothing replaces training, accuracy and a calm demeanor. I don't trust those who depend on the weapon to make up for their inadequacy. They tend to be sloppy and dangerous.
 

resodko

BANNED
Banned
The truth is that my old buddy, a Viet Nam vet Airborne Ranger, and I used to hunt with single-shot 12-gauge shotguns. On hunting outings we both were known for not missing...



awesome! :thumb:


:think: so how come you didn't use spears or throw rocks?
 

Morpheus

New member
awesome! :thumb:


:think: so how come you didn't use spears or throw rocks?

Like I said, most of us are not against gun ownership, home protection or hunting game. Yet there is quite a difference between simple "gun ownership" and sensible gun ownership through regulation. The former leads to a far more dangerous society (and world for that matter) and anarchy; while the latter attempts to protect society (a legitimate function of government) from the more unstable, dangerous and criminal among us. You contend that the former leads to security, while I contend that the former makes us less secure and the latter more.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
However the gun lobby will continue with its inane arguments and avoid addressing the fact that privately owned guns kill an awful lot of Americans every year.

Not nearly as many as muslims do without guns. Or cars. As already pointed out.

Actually, the low fat high grain diet is the largest killer in America.
 
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Morpheus

New member
awesome! :thumb:


:think: so how come you didn't use spears or throw rocks?

Does bow-hunting count?

And then there were those times, when I was much younger, that I used to gradually ride up on deer with my cutting horse (you can get quite close since deer don't consider horses a threat) and then once the deer finally turned to run, I would bulldog it and hit it between the eyes with a ball-pein hammer.

Next time maybe I can tell you about the tornado that left my horse in the big low branch of a sycamore tree, and how I eventually had to coax it down on an 8-foot stepladder.
 

Buzzword

New member
What I don't understand is how a toddler could disengage the safety device and don't guns still require cocking?

Just to chime in here, not every handgun has a safety, and very few non-revolvers require cocking.

My wife and I received a pair of Glock 22s from my father-in-law for Christmas (he'd customized one for my wife because she's lefthanded), and neither has a safety or requires cocking, since both were initially manufactured for law enforcement.

If there is a round in the chamber, the gun will fire.
If the woman in Walmart was stupid enough to carry a loaded handgun with a round in the chamber, that's on her.

As for the problem of guns I could agree with CManc but it is too late in history to disarm America, logistically how would you go about it? The turn of the century it might have been possible or after the 1st world war state by state they might have managed it.

This is the heart of the issue, in addition to the culture of Violence + Deadly Weapons = Freedom which sprang up sometime around the birth of the NeoCon plague in DC.

You cannot solve the problem by limiting gun sales, because far too many guns are already privately owned by citizens, and too many of the more prolific gun owners have been drinking the "gubmint gonna take arr guns!" koolaid for a generation or so.

For example, the pistols my wife and I received for Christmas did not come with any registration paperwork, and we do not have to report our new possessions to any local, state, or federal law enforcement.

If either of us shoots and kills an intruder, it is just assumed that we legally own the deadly weapon used in the killing, simply because it happened in our home.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Really every year since 911 guns have killed at least 3 times as many people as 911 did.

So guns do accidentally in a year what muslims do in 2 hours? Is that today's defense of islam you vile pervert?

Here is the number of traffic fatalities in the US since 2001. Now lets see the accidental gun deaths posted. If you don't post them, I will.

2001 42,196
2002 43,005
2003 42,884
2004 42,836
2005 43,510
2006 42,708
2007 41,259
2008 37,423
2009 33,883
2010 32,999
2011 32,479
2012 33,561

Numbers cribbed from good ole wiki.
 
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Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Deaths: From 2005-2010, almost 3,800 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings.ii More than a third of the victims were under 25 years of age.

I found this rather easily and posted it because that commie jerk won't do it. So 430,000 vehicle deaths arbitrarily cut in half to match years is 215,000 to 3800.
 

Mark SeaSigh

BANNED
Banned
Self-defense has never at issue. What is is that unrestrained gun ownership leads to proliferation, which leads to all kinds of weapons being made available in huge numbers to the criminal element, which leads to more fear. It's a downward spiral that leads to disaster. Your fear only makes you less safe and more fearful. Shooting has become the default position, even when the fear is only due to perception with no basis in fact. Then when more guns are in society, with minimal restriction on who gets them, more and more unstable, untrained people have access to them, also with disastrous consequences. Minimally restricted access to firearms is never a good idea, especially in a paranoid society of wannabe cowboys.

I have been around some of thase people who decided it was "fun" to shoot up everything in sight. I've known several "dealers" with federal licenses only so they could sell full-auto weapons, grenades, LAWS rockets, mini guns and 50-cals out of their trunks in the parking lot of a construction site (usually on night shifts). I've known some who bought every weapon they could lay their hands on from private owners just so they could smuggle them across the border to Mexican drug lords. I haven't lived the sheltered life; you have. Your resistance to regulation makes the majority of violent crime possible.

The vast majority of Americans calling for tighter regulation and restriction of firearm sales do not want to deny the sensible, trained adult the ability to defend their home or keep them from hunting game. But nobody needs an assault rifle with a fifty-round mag for either of those ends. Nobody needs 20,30,50 or more firearms to protect their family. In fact it's some of the craziest, most dangerous and unstable people in our society that have those weapons in those numbers.

And who is behind most of the second-amendment hype? The arms manufacturers, and the NRA that is primarily funded by them as their lobbying arm. And what have they turned you into? Both their consumer and their unpaid salesman.


And on a side note​

The truth is that my old buddy, a Viet Nam vet Airborne Ranger, and I used to hunt with single-shot 12-gauge shotguns. On hunting outings we both were known for not missing, while the others typically emptied their autos and pumps with poor results. Essentially what this says is that the greater the capacity firearms only give you a false sense of security. Nothing replaces training, accuracy and a calm demeanor. I don't trust those who depend on the weapon to make up for their inadequacy. They tend to be sloppy and dangerous.

All that Jazz, and you can't even Read, or Figure out how to answer a Single one of My Questions?

...

You must be part of that Anonymous Group for Certain!!! LOL!!!

What a Bunch of Dorks!!!

LOL!!!

=======================================

Here, Let me try, again; and see if you brain is Functioning this time around:

One Good Point! LOL!!!

Nice Mask "Morpheus", weakling.

image.php


Why do you like that "V" for Vendetta Movie so much?

LOL!!!


What are we talking about, Anyway?


Don't you think US Citizens should have the ability to Defend Themselves from Criminals?




=M=




Oh, and "Morpheus"; What do you think will happen to that Toddler, Now?
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
If there is a round in the chamber, the gun will fire.
If the woman in Walmart was stupid enough to carry a loaded handgun with a round in the chamber, that's on her.

This is about the first time I've taken issue with what you post buzz but I do with this. It's excessively harsh as who knows all the circumstances here and she certainly couldn't be expected to think her toddler of a child would shoot her inadvertently even with a round in the chamber. If she made a mistake as you suggest in regards to guns then she paid for it with her life and it's just a tragedy all ends up.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
do you think that "function", "use", "design" and "purpose" all mean the same thing? :think:


regardless, my second point to champ still stands - if true, then 99.9% of guns fail to achieve their intended "function", "use", "design" or "purpose"

Function and design deal with the weapon itself. Use and purpose deal with the person holding the gun. I agree that most guns are never used to kill anything. None the less, guns were originally designed to make hunting, and then wars, more efficient by making killing easier.
 

The Barbarian

BANNED
Banned
TomO writes:
I'm pretty sure that states which issue carry permits do this....Whether the amount of training mandated is adequate is another issue however.

Texas, for example, requires training, but it's pretty much like taking a defensive driving course to get a ticket dismissed. Not very comprehensive.

NRA gun safety courses used to be pretty good. Haven't taken one in over 50 years, though, so I don't know. A more rigorous course, with failure for those who don't get it, would be a good start.
 
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