God's Truth
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Obeying Jesus is never wrong.
Peter says that people misunderstand Paul, and then Peter warns us to obey. See 2 Peter 3:16, and 17.
Thinking and reflecting on obeying God's commands.
- Thread starter Jacob
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Obeying Jesus is never wrong.
Peter says that people misunderstand Paul, and then Peter warns us to obey. See 2 Peter 3:16, and 17.
God's Truth
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The washings the Jews used to have to do where if a woman had a period and if someone sat where she sat; and, if a man had an emission and then someone touched him or sat where he sat.
Think for yourself, do you obey and do special washings for having a discharge or sitting where someone else sat that had one?
A person could not even go to the temple to worship God unless they had a special washing and blood sacrifice from an animal.
Don't you want to be washed once and for all by God?
You do not obey Moses.
Elia, what does fulfill mean? How was Elohim's promise to all nations through Abraham fulfilled?
Why does Jesus call the Teachers of the law Accusers of the brethren and full of dead men's bones?
I understand your disgust, but why quote Yeshua at all. Why not simply denounce him as invalid to aiding on a Jewish walk?
Is salvation for Gentiles as well as Jews?
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What if the entire law is too great a burden for mankind, but only applicable to Yeshua and His keeping it?
How do I reconcile my sins without being able to adhere to each point?
Can I be saved by my own efforts?
And most importantly, do you follow each point of the Law of Moses.
If you do, please share your secret, because I fail daily.
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God's Truth
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People DID obey the law blamelessly.
As for the old law, NO ONE can obey Moses anymore, unless they believe in Jesus as the Lamb of God.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
Glad to hear that the law of Moses (which of course really is the law of God, only given through Moses) is not a problem.
So you observe the law of God which He gave through Moses?
Or do you throw the whole law of God overboard, and replace it with paganism, thus making you a lawless pagan?
"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
This is what he specifically commanded:
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven"
Matthew 5
And also this: "Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do"
Matt 23
So listen very carefully to what I say, and do that.
If not, you transgress those words.
"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
It's just that there is no Christian who does it.
Any Christian keeping the law?
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven"
Matthew 5
Any Christian listening to the Scribes and Pharisees?
"Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do"
Matt 23
"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15
Epoisses
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Jesus told the Jews who were under the law to obey the scribes and Pharisees. There were no Christians when he spoke those words.
And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. Acts. 11:26
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
That is because Christians are lawless pagans who throw God's laws overboard, and replace them with paganism.
No, there is no difference. What you have to keep in mind is that there is no "law of Moses", what there is are many laws of God, given through Moses. Therefore it is called "law of Moses", but it is the law of God.
Here are some examples: "Now Y-H-W-H spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying to them, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying, ‘These are the animals which you may eat among all the animals that are on the earth: 3 Among the animals, whatever divides the hoof, having cloven hooves and chewing the cud—that you may eat. 4 Nevertheless these you shall not eat among those that chew the cud or those that have cloven hooves: the camel, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; 5 the rock hyrax, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; 6 the hare, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; 7 and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. 8 Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch. They are unclean to you."
Lev 11
So you see that the law about not eating pork is given by God, but given to the Israelites by Moses and Aaron, therefore it is called the law of Moses, but it is the law of God.
Another one:
"Then Y-H-W-H spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the sons of Israel, saying:
‘When a woman gives birth and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean for seven days, as in the days of her menstruation she shall be unclean. 3 On the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised."
Lev 12
There are hundreds more examples like this in the Torah, the five books of Moses.
The 10 commandments were given straight by God to the Israelites. Because the Israelites were very afraid, the rest came through Moses.
In the NT no difference is made between the 10 commandments and the law of Moses.
When the Christian messiah speaks about "the law" he means the five books of Moses, containing all 613 commandments.
The Jewish division of the Tanach, the Hebrew Bible, is in three parts: The Torah, (T) the prophets, (in Hebrew: nevi'iem, the N) and the writings, (in Hebrew Chetuviem, the Ch, making for the acronym "Tanach")
The Torah are the five books of Moses. The prophets are the prophetic books, the big and small prophets, and the writings are books like Ruth, Esther, Proverbs, etc, and that section begins with the Psalms.
And we see that in the NT that exact same division is made, when it is said: "Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”
So here "the law of Moses" means the first five books of the Bible, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, which include the 10 commandments.
When the question is asked, "What is the first commandment?", not a commandment from the 10 commandments is given, but from the law of Moses:
"Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, “Which is the first commandment of all?”
29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
Mark 12
"Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." is Deut 6:4, and "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" is Lev 19:18, both from the law of Moses, not from the 10 commandments.
So no difference is made.
"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15
marhig
Well-known member
In Matthew 23, it does indeed say that they must do what the scribes and pharasees say as they are in moses' seat. But, they were not living it, and although their words were right before God, their lives weren't. Because Jesus also said this, straight after telling the people to obey their words "but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."
It's not what we say, but how we live before God. We must be doers not hearers only. Faith without works is dead.
We must obey the laws of God, and if we love our neighbour as ourselves, then we will do this, because we would only do to them what we would want done to ourselves. So if we love God, we will obey him.
Paul in Galatians 5
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
And then James.
James 2
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law..So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
I believe that we obey God, and obey his laws, but we don't live by man's add ons and traditions, which includes those like the scribes and pharasees that Jesus spoke about and that also includes those in various Christian churches who have added onto the gospel of Jesus!
God's Truth
New member
Christians keep the law through Jesus. Jews do not keep the law. I can prove it to you easily.
Tell me, where is your temple and where is your sacrifice of blood?
marhig
Well-known member
The trouble is, some Christians believe that Jesus has done it all for them, and they don't have to do anything. Just live their lives they like and they're saved. I'm afraid this isn't the way of God.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
So you only love your neighbour and God, and then you think you do the whole law?
When you love your neighbour and God, do you then circumcise your sons, and don't you eat pork?
"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
Christians don't keep God's laws, and I can prove it to you easily. Do you do the circumcision commandment? Don't you eat pork?
The Temple is destroyed, and because animal sacrifices can only be done on the Temple altar, we at this moment have no animal sacrifices.
But the rest of the law, which can be fulfilled, we fulfil. As the only ones.
Nobody else lives by God's laws.
"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
So tell me; where do you sacrifice your blood sacrifices?
"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19
God's Truth
New member
You cannot get around it, you do not obey Moses.
God's Truth
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Where do you sacrifice your offerings?
marhig
Well-known member
True circumcision is by the word of God and not naturally by the flesh, and through God by the circumcision of the heart I live it out, circumcision is of the heart not the flesh. And that's not only the new testament but in the old also.
Deu 30
And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Our hearts must be free from flesh for us to live in God. The cutting off the natural flesh is just a picture, without circumcision of the heart we are dead in our sins.
Romans 2
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
You can look the part on the outside, and follow the all laws outwardly, but if you're not clean within then the whole of you is dirty.
If you had a pretty cup that looked lovely in the outside but was filthy within, would you use it? I wouldn't, and God can't live in a world filled selfish heart. We must be put to death by the spirit.
That's the difference, you can do it all outwardly and still be wrong in God. Jesus came and showed us that he is the way the truth and the life, and through him we receive the spirit of God who cleans us inwardly.
It's not following the laws outwardly, but from within, and this starts by loving God with all our hearts, soul, mind and strength, and loving our neighbour ourselves and following Jesus. And Christ, by the spirit will help us to overcome the world.
