The Two Resurrections

[way 2 go]

Deuteronomy 32 ESV
(21) They have made me jealous with what is no god; they have provoked me to anger with their idols. So I will make them [Israel] jealous with those who are no people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

that foolish nation would be the Canaanites , a thorn in Israel's side.
started in Genesis 9:24-27

Romans 10 ESV
(19) But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry.”
(20) Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, “I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”


Gentiles

Paul with his dispensation shows another application for the same verse
kinda like James and Paul use Abraham to proof text different dispensations

Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,



Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"and he was called a friend of God.

That Gentiles would be reached out to by God is no mystery, it was prophesied all along.

It was prophesied to be through the Jews not apart from the Jews
Zec 8:23 Thus says the LORD of hosts: In those days ten men from the nations of every tongue shall take hold of the robe of a Jew, saying, 'Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.'"

it was a mystery
(Romans 11:25) For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you should be wise within yourselves; that blindness in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the nations has comes in.

 

[fzappa13]

Not me. Scripture:

“In those days and in that time,” says the Lord,“The children of Israel shall come,They and the children of Judah together;With continual weeping they shall come,And seek the Lord their God. They shall ask the way to Zion,With their faces toward it, saying,‘Come and let us join ourselves to the LordIn a perpetual covenantThat will not be forgotten.’ “My people have been lost sheep.Their shepherds have led them astray;They have turned them away on the mountains.They have gone from mountain to hill;They have forgotten their resting place. All who found them have devoured them;And their adversaries said, ‘We have not offended,Because they have sinned against the Lord, the habitation of justice,The Lord, the hope of their fathers.’

Bible Gateway passage: Jeremiah 50:4-7 - New King James Version

“In those days and in that time,” says the Lord, “The children of Israel shall come, They and the children of Judah together; With continual weeping they shall come, And seek the Lord their God. They shall ask the way to Zion, With their faces toward it, saying, ‘Come and let us join ourselves...

www.biblegateway.com

Jesus said:

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 15:24 - New King James Version

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

www.biblegateway.com

Scripture says more explicitly that God wants to reunite the two nations under one King.

Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand. “And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.” ’ And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes. “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God. “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. The nations also will know that I, the Lord, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.” ’ ”

Bible Gateway passage: Ezekiel 37:15-28 - New King James Version

One Kingdom, One King - Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house...

www.biblegateway.com

John 10:
15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

In the passage I offered, Jesus was speaking to Pharisees and that would be "Judah" if I understand your thinking on the matter correctly, and you differentiate them from "Israel." You then go on to quote scripture that says that Jesus had only come for "the children of Israel" which, by your logic, would seem to exclude Judah (of which tribe He was) and the Gentiles as well. Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[Derf]

John 10:
15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

In the passage I offered, Jesus was speaking to Pharisees and that would be "Judah" if I understand your thinking on the matter correctly, and you differentiate them from "Israel." You then go on to quote scripture that says that Jesus had only come for "the children of Israel" which, by your logic, would seem to exclude Judah (of which tribe He was) and the Gentiles as well. Am I understanding this correctly?

I think the "house" of Israel is different from the "children" of Israel in those passages. The children of Israel are actually grouped with Judah, probably because a remnant had left the 10 tribes in the days of Jereboam. The house of Israel (sometimes all 12 tribes, but often just the 10 northern tribes) was taken away by the Assyrians, but then allowed to go home, probably by Cyrus, just like Judah. They had been gone longer, and were probably more willing to intermarry, and the people the Assyrians had transplanted into Samaria were pretty firmly settled.

I haven't been able to successfully disentangle all of the references in OT prophecy of the different houses of Israel/Judah, but it seems like a good study.

 

[JudgeRightly]

John 10:
15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

In the passage I offered, Jesus was speaking to Pharisees and that would be "Judah" if I understand your thinking on the matter correctly,

Yes, the Pharisees were Jews.

Jews come from JUdah.

Judah was split off from Israel (ie, "the children of Israel") as its own nation. It had its own monarchy, while the nation called "Israel" was captured by the Babylonians, and for all intents and purposes, dispersed.

and you differentiate them from "Israel."

As Derf mentioned, and as Scripture shows, the "House" of Israel is not the full group of the "children of Israel."

You then go on to quote scripture that says that Jesus had only come for "the children of Israel" which, by your logic, would seem to exclude Judah (of which tribe He was) and the Gentiles as well. Am I understanding this correctly?

No.

"I have not come except for the lost sheep of the HOUSE of Israel."

The lost sheep are the children of Israel who were captured by Babylon, which was called "Israel" after the house of Judah split off. They were "lost sheep" because they, as a nation, were destroyed.

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found he lays on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 15:4, Luke 15:5, Luke 15:6 - New King James Version

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?

www.biblegateway.com

 

[fzappa13]

Yes, the Pharisees were Jews.

Jews come from JUdah.

Judah was split off from Israel (ie, "the children of Israel") as its own nation. It had its own monarchy, while the nation called "Israel" was captured by the Babylonians, and for all intents and purposes, dispersed.



As Derf mentioned, and as Scripture shows, the "House" of Israel is not the full group of the "children of Israel."



No.

"I have not come except for the lost sheep of the HOUSE of Israel."

The lost sheep are the children of Israel who were captured by Babylon, which was called "Israel" after the house of Judah split off. They were "lost sheep" because they, as a nation, were destroyed.

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found he lays on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 15:4, Luke 15:5, Luke 15:6 - New King James Version

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?

www.biblegateway.com

With all due respect, this is the rhetorical equivalent of a dog chasing it's tail. Could you please respond simply and directly; did Jesus come for Judah and/or the Gentiles or not?

 

[JudgeRightly]

With all due respect, this is the rhetorical equivalent of a dog chasing it's tail. Could you please respond simply and directly; did Jesus come for Judah and/or the Gentiles or not?

Answered in posts #94 and #99.

 

[Derf]

Yes, the Pharisees were Jews.

Jews come from JUdah.

Judah was split off from Israel (ie, "the children of Israel") as its own nation. It had its own monarchy, while the nation called "Israel" was captured by the Babylonians, and for all intents and purposes, dispersed.



As Derf mentioned, and as Scripture shows, the "House" of Israel is not the full group of the "children of Israel."

I'm not so sure that the "children of Israel" is the whole group, either, since it is referenced next the house of Judah.

No.

"I have not come except for the lost sheep of the HOUSE of Israel."

The lost sheep are the children of Israel who were captured by Babylon, which was called "Israel" after the house of Judah split off. They were "lost sheep" because they, as a nation, were destroyed.

Jesus was pretty clear that the lost things in the prodigal son parable were ones that were feeding pigs in a far country they went to of their own accord, so the reference to Gentile connections seems obvious, though it could be interpreted as the Israelites living among Gentiles (feeding the pigs may be analogous to taxes paid, or to supporting the ecomonies, farming, tending sheep etc., though it probably is much more Gentile-like than just being in Gentile lands--since it starts with "riotous living" and "going away from the father's house").

 

[JudgeRightly]

I'm not so sure that the "children of Israel" is the whole group, either, since it is referenced next the house of Judah.

The children of Israel are the descendants of the patriarch Jacob, who was given the name "Israel" by God.

 

[Derf]

The children of Israel are the descendants of the patriarch Jacob, who was given the name "Israel" by God.

Yes...and no. As here:
[2Ch 13:18 KJV] 18 Thus the children of Israel were brought under at that time, and the children of Judah prevailed, because they relied upon the LORD God of their fathers.