glorydaz
Well-known member
I don't need to hear your opinion on the matter, Michael. She's catty.....that's enough for me.
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
I don't need to hear your opinion on the matter, Michael. She's catty.....that's enough for me.
glorydaz
Well-known member
And here we see our TRIUNE GOD making man in His own image. God was not talking to angels, and angels were not made in the image of God.
Gen. 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen. 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen. 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Rosenritter
New member
1. Why would you think it would be about angels that died?
2. Where did it say the gospel was preached to these spirits in prison?
3. What does "how did he fulfill the universe" mean?
And the best one for last,
4. How can one expect to maintain a logical conversation with one who doesn't read the previous posts?
P.S. Keep up the stream of awesome reputation comments. I'm not sure why you act offended that I sometimes thank your posts. Sometimes you do say something appropriate.
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Rosenritter
New member
Since we're back on topic again, perhaps we need a refresher of the points when there's less bickering to to drown them out. There's nothing innately Triune about that passage. I see how you are overlaying your "God is many people" idea on top of it, but that's hardly a necessary construction.
1. You have already admitted (after some unnecessary arguing) that angels were present at the creation of the world. This is specifically stated in the book of Job, and this is easily inferred by the presence of the serpent in the Garden of Eden, and angels which are set to prevent man from reentering the garden after he is cast out.
2. You have argued that man was not created in the image of angels. This argument is dismissed because that would not be the natural reading of the passage (that was a straw man argument). As the phrase is "in our image" and we know that God is the primary inclusion within that "our" it would imply that man and angels are both created in the image of God, rather than man after in the image of angels, twice removed from God.
3. Everyone acknowledges that man is made in God's image, but few people seem to be willing to attempt to define "God's image" within this context. Pretty much most of the aspects you (Glory) attempted to come up with before are also shared by the angels. When we review the attributes of angels as described in scripture, they are described in godlike terms, certainly more so than humans. Any honest discussion needs to first define "made in God's image" before going much further.
4. I believe that someone objected that this interpretation would require that angels were the ones doing the creating. Again, this objection attempts to remove the primary component of "we" from the subject. God is the acting part of we, the other part of we would be the included observers, or part of the "royal we" where the sovereign speaks on behalf of his subjects. We do have evidence from other scripture that God sometimes does discuss his plans with his angels, and in one case even asking them for ideas on how to solve a problem.
I believe that's a fair summary of the points on this subtopic. Genesis neither proves nor requires a Trinity explanation, as it can also be well understood using the elements that we are already provided.
I remember Glory's counter-argument being that the bible does not explicitly state that angels are created in the image of God. I answer that neither does the bible explicitly state that God is a Trinity. It is easily deduced that angels are created in the image of God, which requires less of a stretch than the solution that a God who repeatedly describes himself as "One" throughout scripture is actually a secret group of three individuals.
Does anyone want to rationally discuss this without the catcalling? Perhaps without the "you are evil" or gratuitous trumpeting of Triunity colors? And as a reminder, even a Triune God of multiple personalities (or a pantheon) could still speak to his angels in this fashion. You're not being threatened, you're just being asked to be fair and objective in your standards of proof.
Why does it matter? I have seen at least a few people turn away from recognizing Jesus as God because they observe stupid and flawed arguments being put forth to argue Trinity, illogical arguments fueled by aggressive bullying, justified by the "We are Right therefore you are damned" mentality. They then associate the weight of flawed "Trinity proofs" with "Jesus is God" (which is true) and we lose them down that spiral. Don't be that stumbling block.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Made up....snide, catty, and FALSE.
Rosenritter
New member
If you don't give yourself a heart attack by that state of constant aggression, at least take care not to choke on that anger. I have no idea where you get "like to look like a woman" and "wear make up" from, but points for at least typing Rosenritter into the Google machine.
So you are saying that these images that you connected really invoke feminine aspects for you?
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Rosenritter
New member
Bright Raven has said that he believes God is many people, specifically three different people with different personalities. Nor would he be an isolated case, James White (avowed Trinitarian champion) also describes God as multiple people in this way, even comparing "God" to "cat" whereas God has multiple persons, just as "cat" has multiple individual cats. His (James White's) chosen analogy, not mine.
Would you like to ask Bright Raven for confirmation or perhaps a restatement that we could work with? Alternatively I could direct you to James White own webpage where he says this for himself - I used this for reference at the beginning when I started looking at this thread.
Regardless, accusations of "snide catty false" are hardly constructive. That's a descent back into bickering. Can you stay above board on this?
glorydaz
Well-known member
The arguing was yours as you attempted to claim the "sons of God" in Gen. 6 were the same as those mentioned in Job. Oh, and your inability to admit that "sons of the living God" is talking about those like unto the sons of God in Gen. 6. Cannot be, she claims, because she says so. :chuckle:
Your dismissing it is not worth a hill of beans, since if angels were made in the image of God, we would, of necessity, be also in the image of angels. Besides, of course, the fact that it is nowhere written in scripture that angels are made in the image of God.
And you most of all. You can't even provide one possibility.
Start a thread. Not many of the people who would know even come to this thread since it's gotten so out of hand.
The Godhead....our Triune God is not a "secret group of three". All believers see it proven throughout the entire Bible. Only the cults reject it. Which cult are you, Rosey?
glorydaz
Well-known member
We aren't talking about "people", but our TRIUNE God. No, I am not interested in reading some man's views on God's nature. There is plenty right there in Scripture.
[MENTION=4465]Bright Raven[/MENTION] I've never heard you use the word "people". Would you care to respond?
glorydaz
Well-known member
I always stay above board. I suggest you look at yourself for a change.
lifeisgood
New member
The way I have always understood ‘created in the image and likeness of God’ is that we have some of God’s attributes. Not that we are like Him, but that we ‘bear’ some of His attributes.
God is rational (Isaiah 1:18) and so are we.
God loves (John 3:16) and so do we.
God can hate (Psalm 5:5; 11:5) and so can we.
God is compassionate (Exodus 33:19; Psalm 86:15) and so are we.
It would be difficult to suggest that the disembodied souls under the throne in Revelation 6:9–11 have ceased to be image bearers on the basis that they are awaiting their resurrection bodies or how about Moses and Elijah talking to Jesus at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:1-3).
Paul explains the new man and the old man giving us great insight into what created in the image and likeness of God means (Ephesians 4:24; Colossians 3:10). It is an image that bears the righteousness and holiness of God.
God is rational (Isaiah 1:18) and so are we.
God loves (John 3:16) and so do we.
God can hate (Psalm 5:5; 11:5) and so can we.
God is compassionate (Exodus 33:19; Psalm 86:15) and so are we.
It would be difficult to suggest that the disembodied souls under the throne in Revelation 6:9–11 have ceased to be image bearers on the basis that they are awaiting their resurrection bodies or how about Moses and Elijah talking to Jesus at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:1-3).
Paul explains the new man and the old man giving us great insight into what created in the image and likeness of God means (Ephesians 4:24; Colossians 3:10). It is an image that bears the righteousness and holiness of God.
popsthebuilder
New member
Please excuse my genuine ignorance, but is there scripture describing the Godhead as three people with three separate bodies, souls, and spirits?
Or really any scripture describing the Godhead would be great and welcome.
peace
glorydaz
Well-known member
The Godhead is not made up of three separate bodies, souls, and spirits, so, of course, there will no verses saying that. The Godhead is used only three times speaking of the essence of God...His Deity. Verses throughout scripture support it.
Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
popsthebuilder
New member
Okay. Thank you.
I must admit that those verses out of context aren't very descriptive of the Godhead.
I also recall you saying that a person is comprised of three separate parts; those parts being body, soul and spirit, so if GOD is actually three people/ persons with the same three things you say a person is comprised of then the culmination of the parts would be equal to 300% spirit, 300% soul, and 300% body. I'm sure you are aware that this is quite illogical, and must not be what you mean.
I find the last verse quite puzzling if the Godhead is the culmination of three separate "persons"/ people.
If the fullness of GOD is three separate persons then how is the Godhead (the fullness of GOD) contained within the physical body of Christ?
peace
glorydaz
Well-known member
Well, Paul says the eternal Godhead is clearly seen and understood by the created. Romans 1:20 :think:
The Bible says man is composed of body, soul, and spirit. 1 Thessalonians 5:23
The fulness of the Godhead (the entire divine nature) dwells in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. Here we see the Holy Ghost descended in the bodily shape of a dove. It came UPON HIM. God can literally do these things - all things, in fact.
Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
It isn't three separate people, but ONE God with three distinct "persons" ie. subsistencies. How can the Holy Spirit dwell in us? Does the Holy Spirit take up room?
popsthebuilder
New member
Psalm: 99. 2. The LORD is great in Zion; and he is high above all the people. 3. Let them praise thy great and terrible name; for it is holy. 4. The king's strength also loveth judgment; thou dost establish equity, thou executest judgment and righteousness in Jacob. 5. Exalt ye the LORD our God, and worship at his footstool; for he is holy. 6. Moses and Aaron among his priests, and Samuel among them that call upon his name; they called upon the LORD, and he answered them. 8. Thou answeredst them, O LORD our God: thou wast a God that forgavest them, though thou tookest vengeance of their inventions. 9. Exalt the LORD our God, and worship at his holy hill; for the LORD our God is holy.
What does Moses and Elias appearing and communing with Jesus represent? Does it not represent the likeness of the three?
Is it the flesh of these men that we are to reflect on so very much, or the actions and words there of? Were they like in spirit or did they resemble one another physically? Is it the flesh we are to hold so dear or the will of GOD?
is the flesh eternal or the Spirit?
What does Moses and Elias appearing and communing with Jesus represent? Does it not represent the likeness of the three?
Is it the flesh of these men that we are to reflect on so very much, or the actions and words there of? Were they like in spirit or did they resemble one another physically? Is it the flesh we are to hold so dear or the will of GOD?
is the flesh eternal or the Spirit?
God's Truth
New member
If you don't give yourself a heart attack by that state of constant aggression, at least take care not to choke on that anger. I have no idea where you get "like to look like a woman" and "wear make up" from, but points for at least typing Rosenritter into the Google machine.
So you are saying that these images that you connected really invoke feminine aspects for you?
Spoiler
Your avatar and the first picture does look feminine. The whole thing is childish. You found a cartoon picture of a galatic hero with blood on him and that is tough? Do you think you are a galactic hero? God's Truth is all I care about; anime seems to be your main focus.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I don't know why you posted this.
No, I believe it represented the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah) that Jesus had fulfilled. They saw His Glory (the Glory of God).
No, no, no, and no.
No, the flesh is not eternal. We will receive spiritual bodies when we are resurrected.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Either way, it clearly bothers her. :chuckle:
It's always easier to dish it out than it is to take it.
God's Truth
New member
haahaahaaaaa I am just trying to get her to experience what empathy is. lol