The Trinity

[glorydaz]

If you want to contest "angels are created in the image of God" it would certainly help if you could tell us what the image of God is. Otherwise you're arguing just for the sake of argument, not actually for any point that can be used for edification.

No, I'm simply sticking to what the Scripture says.....unlike you trying to rewrite it by claiming angels are made in the image of God.

What I find amusing is you demand from me what you can't even begin to answer. I gave you several examples of how man was created in the image of God. I even asked you why God created man....with a body, soul, and spirit, thinking you'd at least answer that. I asked you why man was told to have dominion over and subdue all God had created....not a peep from you. I gave you a couple of verses that spoke directly to this subject and you pretended like they were nothing. I can't help it if you're so set in your ways that you can't consider what others hand you on a silver tray.

 

[God's Truth]

GE, I didn't say a thing about you, other than it was impossible to answer your question when your definition of its basic term is so different. Do you think it would be possible for you to go for twenty-four hours without accusing others of "talking about you" or "accusing you" or any of that tripe? TWENTY-FOUR hours. I don't care how you do it, even if you take a vacation. I don't think you can. Starting now 8:53 PM MST, I'm watching.

You just can't stop can you.

 

[God's Truth]

But if we aren't using scripture, you can just attack me like always and thus save the day. I'm used to it.

Aw so only you get to talk about being attacked?

 

[glorydaz]

5. I'm not seeing any explicit references to sons of God here. Did you leave out Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7 for any particular reason? They seem relevant.

Job 1:6 KJV
(6) Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 KJV
(1) Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38:4-7 KJV
(4) Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
(5) Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
(6) Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
(7) When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

If we are using scripture to guide us here, that seems to weight the interpretation of the phrase towards the side of the angels.

The weight is on the side of believers.

What you like to ignore is the context of Genesis chapters 4-6. After giving the lineage of those who sought God and walked with God from Seth's lineage (sons of God) and then giving the lineage of Cain who went out from the presence of the Lord (daughters of men) they intermarried....as humans are known to do. TheY procreated as humans are known to do.

Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.​

 

[glorydaz]

Aw so only you get to talk about being attacked?

That's what we call being a hypocrite. :chuckle:

 

[God's Truth]

That's what we call being a hypocrite. :chuckle:

lol I can hardly believe he/she makes it so obvious.

 

[Rosenritter]

Seth's lineage sought God....Cain's didn't (Cain went out from the presence of the Lord.) I don't think you gave those verses more than a cursory glance. If you can't do so, I don't see the need to waste any more effort on you.

It's clear they were "mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

What is made with brass and iron? SWORDS....killing implements. Mighty means POWERFUL, which makes sense considering the state of the world before the flood.

Gen. 4:22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.​

OH, and ALSO AFTER THAT , the sons of God mated with the daughters of men. Seems the giants were there before the matings. If these were good angels (sons of God), they wouldn't have done such a thing even if it were physically possible for a spiritual being to have sex with a human.

Why did you limit the sons of God to obedient angels? Satan is considered among the "sons of God" and he's hardly considered a "good" angel. Book of Job, remember? Peter also refers to spirits which were disobedient in the days of Noah (1 Peter 3:20).

Glory, I am quite familiar with your argument. I've seen those exact same things before, but it has less support than allowing the terms to be read in their normal sense. "Sons of God" are used elsewhere for the created angels. There's no actual place where "sons of Seth" are called "sons of God" and as such it seems like a less-than-supported assumption.

Oh, and the last I checked, "giant" meant "GIANT" not "he who wields a sharp metal sword." When David fought a giant the guy stood over six cubits tall. The gear he carried was heavy stuff, this wasn't one of those wispy weaklings, Goliath was a tank. Anyone can carry a sharp metal sword. When you carry a spear head weighing six hundred shekels of iron, you're a literal giant. So when Genesis says "there were giants in those days" I'm inclined to think it means actual giants, and it's likely having something to do with the action it's describing, i.e. the "sons of God" that it mentions probably has something to do with it. It's probably not a random statement.

 

[Rosenritter]

Indeed, John goes so far as to say the Word was with God and was God. Now, let's here you explain away how one can be WITH and WAS at the same time.

I was with him and I was him......give us an answer to that riddle.

That's how you introduce the concept and step it up. Now don't get beside yourself with anger.

 

[Rosenritter]

No, I'm simply sticking to what the Scripture says.....unlike you trying to rewrite it by claiming angels are made in the image of God.

What I find amusing is you demand from me what you can't even begin to answer. I gave you several examples of how man was created in the image of God. I even asked you why God created man....with a body, soul, and spirit, thinking you'd at least answer that. I asked you why man was told to have dominion over and subdue all God had created....not a peep from you. I gave you a couple of verses that spoke directly to this subject and you pretended like they were nothing. I can't help it if you're so set in your ways that you can't consider what others hand you on a silver tray.

Ah but Glory, I have begun to answer that question. The cherub in the garden was created perfect, full of brightness and wisdom and beauty, it is written. He was created with the capacity for obedience or rebellion, but made in perfection in all his ways. Rather Godlike in the description of his image, don't you think?.

You grew upset so I offered you the opportunity, which you declined. As I answered before, you tossed out a few rhetorical questions but neglected to actually make a statement. I even provided some answers to some of those seemingly rhetorical questions, which turned around backwards from your intended aim.

If you would care to address your concerns in the form of legitimate questions, you might get serious answers.

1) Why did God create man, forming a body of the dust of the earth and breathing into him spirit, making a living soul? Man isn't composed of "body soul and spirit", the scripture as written tells us that man is a living soul, a combination of body and spirit. Are you suggesting that man is more like God in that he is made of dust AND spirit? As opposed to the angels, which are actually more like God in this aspect, as God is Spirit, the angels are spirits, and God is called the father of spirits?

Strike against Glory on that one I'm afraid.

2) I can't recall you asking why man was given dominion over the animals. But I'd be interested in hearing your explanation of how you think this might be relevant.

I DO recall you making veiled allegations that angels were incapable of love (or emotion) and creative ability. Frankly, if you were using a fraction of the effort you normally use for your standard hostility, you'd realize why those were bad arguments to begin with. God considers his angels intellectually creative enough to brainstorm with them for ideas. And as for their form and nature, we are promised that in the blessed resurrection the saints shall be as the angels in heaven.

If you are going to neglect to give an actual definition of "image of God" for purposes of discussion, then stop the petty arguing. On the other hand, if you want to ask me for a definition, I will be happy to provide one.

 

[Rosenritter]

You just can't stop can you.

I'll stop watching at 8:53 MST Wednesday.

 

[Rosenritter]

Aw so only you get to talk about being attacked?

Good point. I'll make special effort to appreciate Glory's warmth and love with good graces. Sound fair?

 

[Rosenritter]

The weight is on the side of believers.

What you like to ignore is the context of Genesis chapters 4-6. After giving the lineage of those who sought God and walked with God from Seth's lineage (sons of God) and then giving the lineage of Cain who went out from the presence of the Lord (daughters of men) they intermarried....as humans are known to do. TheY procreated as humans are known to do.

Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.​

So Satan is among those counted as true believers?

Job 1:6 KJV
(6) Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

If we are considering context, the Old Testament uses sons of God in one fashion, and the New Testament uses it in another.

 

[Rosenritter]

That's what we call being a hypocrite. :chuckle:

It is nice to see you two girls getting along finally.

 

[glorydaz]

It is nice to see you two girls getting along finally.

We have a long history you know nothing about. We get along more than it might appear.

 

[glorydaz]

So Satan is among those counted as true believers?

Job 1:6 KJV
(6) Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

If we are considering context, the Old Testament uses sons of God in one fashion, and the New Testament uses it in another.

That's a stupid thing to say. No wonder you make so many errors.

 

[glorydaz]

Good point. I'll make special effort to appreciate Glory's warmth and love with good graces. Sound fair?

What efforts you might make are worth zip. It's clear you speak out of both sides of your mouth. Forked tongue would be a better term.

 

[glorydaz]

If we are considering context, the Old Testament uses sons of God in one fashion, and the New Testament uses it in another.

Genesis 6 is in the Old Testament. Just because you reject the meaning of sons of God in that text.....claiming they are giant fallen angels. :rotfl:

 

[glorydaz]

Genesis 6 is in the Old Testament. Just because you reject the meaning of sons of God in that text.....claiming they are giant fallen angels. :rotfl:

Oh, so is Hosea. All you got is Job.

 

[MichaelCadry]

You don't like it when you come to a debate group and someone doesn't agree with you so you try to demean that person. That is wrong. You are a trinitarian and that doctrine comes from the Catholics. I prove my beliefs with scripture and you try to prove your beliefs with insults. You also keep trying to scare people by telling them something bad is going to happen, yet, you have done that before and don't accept it that it makes you a false prophet. I gave you scripture proving that.

Dear GT,

You call my telling you that you have a stubborn heart an insult of mine? Jesus said that much to the Pharisees, and you can't complain to Him, so you complain to me. I'm not trying to demean you by that little sentence.

I don't call myself a Catholic. I am initially from the Church of the Nazarene, and also am going to a Baptist Church right now that I find very excellent. We hug each other there and have real love for each other.

I'm also not trying to 'scare' people. Just stating the facts. I offer them instead, good wishes and hope for their near future. We're all going to be glad that God did what He did after it is done. This is written of in the Bible. I'm not saying anything weird, except for the Truth.

I Am For Love. What About You?

Michael

 

[popsthebuilder]

This is just more slander from you.

The words ignorant nor conjecture equate to slander.