The Trinity

[glorydaz]

God is spirit, there are many spirits and he is the father of spirits, but when you speak of THE Spirit, and designate it as being different from all the rest as in THE Holy Spirit, that seems to me to be a very simple and direct way of referring to the One God. "The Father" if you will, but we usually use "The Holy Spirit" in the context of when God works with and through us.

Glory, this seems like intuitive language. Why would there need to be specific scriptural support? Regardless, if you want scriptural support, then answer this question; who begat the Son of God? The Father, or the Holy Spirit? If you pick one, I can contradict you with scripture supporting the other.

The Bible has made the distinction concerning the three persons of the GodHead, not me.

We could do the same thing with who raised Jesus from the dead. The Father did, the Holy Spirit did, and Jesus raised Himself. All true, AND all supported by scripture.

What we cannot do is claim the Father is the Son, for example, because there is not one verse that says that. The Godhead is not open to man's imaginings...lest we end up with Keypurr, and God's UNtruth making statements that are to be found NOWHERE in Scripture We are not to go beyond what is written.

That was my point with pops...."intuitive language" as you call it, is not something any of us should be engaging in when discussing our Great God and Creator. Even your statement in yellow above is doing a disservice to one vitally important member of the Godhead....as if He was a non-person---HAVING NO PLACE IN HIS OWN RIGHT.

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.​

When we give ourselves the freedom to imagine the Godhead ....the glory of the uncorruptible God...is like unto corruptible man, we are making Him into our own image. When will it end? Ask Keypurr, God's UNtruth, and others who go outside of Scripture with their pronouncements

Romans 1:21-23a Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,​

 

[marhig]

Jesus already had power over all flesh. He performed miracles under his own power. He had the power to call down angels from heaven to keep him from the cross. Think about those implications for a moment. Jesus could have chosen not to go to the cross, and he still would have had power over the angels. He had life in himself unconditionally, he had power over the angels unconditionally.

Matthew 26:52-54 KJV
(52) Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
(53) Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
(54) But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?


Read that statement again: Jesus had that power unconditionally. He could have prevented the cross by exercising that privilege, which by definition, would have been disobedience. Had a man chose to abandon his task, God would have sent a fish to swallow him if necessary. If God considers abandoning a task, it is his own will and discipline that keeps him there, but he keeps his power regardless.

Yes, God has considered going back before. Israel could have been destroyed and started again from Moses.

No, the father gave him power over all flesh, and he said he could pray to the father to send him many Angels.

But now, he is set above all in heaven and in earth, because God had put him in authority over everything, but still, the head of Christ is God.

As you say Jesus could have abandoned the cross, but in doing so he would have been disobedient, and yes, you are right. But disobedient to whom? Yes to God, so if Jesus is the father and he is God, why the obedience? Surely he doesn't have to be obedient to himself? No, he is obedient to his God and father, the one who's will be does always, and the one who has set him at his right hand and given him authority over the heavens and the earth. So Jesus is not the father, nor is he the Almighty God. He is the Christ, the son of the living God and God has given him power over all.

Ephesians 1

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

 

[marhig]

Marhig, if Jesus was said to not be in subjection to the Father (even in heaven) that would be evidence that he was a different person. Being in subjection is exactly what you would expect if he were ultimately the same being, reunited back to his natural and holy form.

No, being in subjection, means that the father is over the son.

 

[popsthebuilder]

1. How was Noah called perfect? Was he perfect in being without sin, or was he perfect in his generations? The context preceding included sons of God taking daughters of men to wife.

2. Abraham was commanded to be perfect. But so is everyone else. Jesus said, "Be thou therefore perfect...."

3. David was certainly not perfect with regards to sin. David sinned, and God sent a plague.

4. Job is a little less clear cut. I've always heard it explained that Job had an issue with being self-righteous, and that God used Satan's challenge to produce good in this regard. That may not be the best explanation so if someone has another take on this point I wouldn't mind hearing it.

Uhm.... With regard to Noah; you speak of the sin of the angels and the daughters of men and the resulting atrocities.

Read upon Abraham the Father of our faith and of the seed of the of the faithful. You will find that he pleased GOD so much so that he was called the friend of GOD.

Job was perfect. You openly refute the written word of GOD by claiming otherwise.

What of the others I listed?

What of the other post I directed towards you? Is LORD GOD?

 

[popsthebuilder]

No, how am I doing that? Thanks

By saying GOD can't do things in any way whatsoever because it isn't readily conceivable to the human mind.

 

[popsthebuilder]

The Bible has made the distinction concerning the three persons of the GodHead, not me.

We could do the same thing with who raised Jesus from the dead. The Father did, the Holy Spirit did, and Jesus raised Himself. All true, AND all supported by scripture.

What we cannot do is claim the Father is the Son, for example, because there is not one verse that says that. The Godhead is not open to man's imaginings...lest we end up with Keypurr, and God's UNtruth making statements that are to be found NOWHERE in Scripture We are not to go beyond what is written.

That was my point with pops...."intuitive language" as you call it, is not something any of us should be engaging in when discussing our Great God and Creator. Even your statement in yellow above is doing a disservice to one vitally important member of the Godhead....as if He was a non-person---HAVING NO PLACE IN HIS OWN RIGHT.

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.​

When we give ourselves the freedom to imagine the Godhead ....the glory of the uncorruptible God...is like unto corruptible man, we are making Him into our own image. When will it end? Ask Keypurr, God's UNtruth, and others who go outside of Scripture with their pronouncements

Romans 1:21-23a Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,​

Isn't that what is being done when people say Jesus was 100% GOD in His flesh?

 

[popsthebuilder]

1 Corinthians 15

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.*Then*cometh*the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.*For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.*The last enemy*that*shall be destroyed*is*death.*For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under*him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.*And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1 Corinthians 11

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God

Matthew 28

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Why was all power given unto him? Given unto him from whom?

And God is the God of Christ Jesus even after the resurrection

Revelation 3

Revelation Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

1 Corinthians: 15. 20. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

(I agree with what you say in reference to 1 Corinthians 11

Matthew: 28. 18. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

(I see here that all was given to the Christ and is now His. Concluding to me that there is no need of division between Christ (Spirit) and GOD (Spirit) as far as mans perceptions are concerned.)

Revelation: 3. 4. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. 8. I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 13. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. 15. I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18. I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


(and again; while there is obvious division to be made between the temple of GOD and GOD in fullness, this doesn't correlate a division of spirit to me, and indeed shows the common denominator is indeed the Singular Spirit, while the dividing line is indeed the vessel with limited capacity.

peace dear friend and sister.

We are not against one another, but learning and terrifying one another.

Please continue in your perseverance and patience towards us; each and everyone.

I know you will.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Pops, I believe that the father and Christ dwell in our hearts through the Holy Spirit. So yes the father is the comforter, because the Spirit only speaks what he is given to speak

John 16

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear,*that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew*it*unto you.
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew*it*unto you

So the Spirit does not speak of himself, thus he speaks what God gives him to speak, through Christ.. All the the father has, has been given to the son, and the only way to the father is through the son. God has set the son over everything, he has given him all authority over the heavens and the earth, so whom would have given Christ Jesus all authority if he already is God himself? Christ Jesus is not the Almighty God, only the father is the Almighty God. And Jesus is the Christ his son, even after he has gone back to the father and risen from the dead. And he is set at the right hand of God, so he's not God and he's not the father, but the Holy son of the living God.

I agree that Jesus spoke only what He was given...... But the Holy Spirit is what was given.

I'm still not convinced from the scripture you have presented that there is a hierarchy between GOD and the Holy Spirit.

I do agree that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are of GOD, but not that the Spirit is limited in any way.

Did Christ say the Comforter will not come, or could not?

peace

 

[God's Truth]

Pops, I believe that the father and Christ dwell in our hearts through the Holy Spirit. So yes the father is the comforter, because the Spirit only speaks what he is given to speak

John 16

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear,*that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew*it*unto you.
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew*it*unto you

So the Spirit does not speak of himself, thus he speaks what God gives him to speak, through Christ.. All the the father has, has been given to the son, and the only way to the father is through the son. God has set the son over everything, he has given him all authority over the heavens and the earth, so whom would have given Christ Jesus all authority if he already is God himself? Christ Jesus is not the Almighty God, only the father is the Almighty God. And Jesus is the Christ his son, even after he has gone back to the father and risen from the dead. And he is set at the right hand of God, so he's not God and he's not the father, but the Holy son of the living God.

The Father is Spirit.
The Son is Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is Spirit.

There is only one Spirit.

It is not too hard to figure out that they are the one and same Spirit.

God the Father is through all the saved, Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Jesus is through all the saved, John 17:26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

They must be the same because there is only one Spirit.


Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;

Ephesians 2:18
For through Him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

 

[God's Truth]

No, the father gave him power over all flesh, and he said he could pray to the father to send him many Angels.

But now, he is set above all in heaven and in earth, because God had put him in authority over everything, but still, the head of Christ is God.

As you say Jesus could have abandoned the cross, but in doing so he would have been disobedient, and yes, you are right. But disobedient to whom? Yes to God, so if Jesus is the father and he is God, why the obedience? Surely he doesn't have to be obedient to himself? No, he is obedient to his God and father, the one who's will be does always, and the one who has set him at his right hand and given him authority over the heavens and the earth. So Jesus is not the father, nor is he the Almighty God. He is the Christ, the son of the living God and God has given him power over all.

Ephesians 1

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Jesus is God come as a Son of Man in the flesh.

Jesus did have to be obedient and he did.

He remained in his Father's love because he obeyed.

John 15:10 If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

 

[God's Truth]

The Bible has made the distinction concerning the three persons of the GodHead, not me.

We could do the same thing with who raised Jesus from the dead. The Father did, the Holy Spirit did, and Jesus raised Himself. All true, AND all supported by scripture.

What we cannot do is claim the Father is the Son, for example, because there is not one verse that says that. The Godhead is not open to man's imaginings...lest we end up with Keypurr, and God's UNtruth making statements that are to be found NOWHERE in Scripture We are not to go beyond what is written.

That was my point with pops...."intuitive language" as you call it, is not something any of us should be engaging in when discussing our Great God and Creator. Even your statement in yellow above is doing a disservice to one vitally important member of the Godhead....as if He was a non-person---HAVING NO PLACE IN HIS OWN RIGHT.

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.​

When we give ourselves the freedom to imagine the Godhead ....the glory of the uncorruptible God...is like unto corruptible man, we are making Him into our own image. When will it end? Ask Keypurr, God's UNtruth, and others who go outside of Scripture with their pronouncements

Romans 1:21-23a Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,​

The scriptures say God is One.

One means the same.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes because the father was in him. Not that he is the father. Look at this

John 14

Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.* Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou*then, Shew us the Father?*Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Jesus is explaining that what he says and does is from God the Father.

Look at other scriptures where Jesus says he is doing the Father's work.

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

John 4:34 Jesus explained, "My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to finish His work.


Jesus is explaining that he did not come as a Man to live as a man, i.e. get married, have children, make a home, and acquire wealth.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes God was manifest in flesh, through Jesus Christ, and Christ is manifest in flesh through us, but that doesn't make us Christ. And God manifest in Christ Jesus doesn't make Christ Jesus God! For God was in him, reconciling the world into himself, and Christ is in his people still reconciling others to God by the power of the Spirit.

God in us does not make us God, but God in Jesus does make Jesus God.

The Bible says Jesus came from heaven; we did not come from heaven.

All creation was made by him.

The Bible says Jesus was conceived from the Holy Spirit; we were not.

Jesus lived a sinless life; we did not.

His blood washes away the sins of the world; ours does not.

How do you ever get that he was just a man with the Spirit of God in Him?

 

[God's Truth]

1 Corinthians 15

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.*Then*cometh*the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.*For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.*The last enemy*that*shall be destroyed*is*death.*For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under*him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.*And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Jesus will reign over the house of Jacob forever. See Luke 1:33, and Revelation 11:15.

In 1 Corinthians 15:25, it says Jesus must REIGN UNTIL HE has put all his enemies under his feet.

In 1 Corinthians 15:24, it says Jesus will hand the kingdom to God the Father, after he [Jesus] has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power.

Since the scriptures also say JESUS' KINGDOM WILL HAVE NO END and he will reign forever; and another scripture says Jesus will reign UNTIL...that shows us Jesus is God and coming as a Man in the flesh was to help us, to show us the way, to reconcile everything back to God the Father.

Jesus is God with a physical body. He came as a Man to show us the way. We are to be conformed to be like Jesus. When Jesus comes again, we will be made like Jesus in all ways, even our new physical bodies. We will be as Jesus is in his Spiritual resurrected body. There will be no need for any Man to be over us in that time...for we will be as Jesus is.

It proves that Jesus is God and that the Man Jesus is God in the flesh to show us the way.

1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

 

[Tambora]

Did I misunderstand,

Could be.

or did you say none were perfect? Because scripture says there were some who were perfect.

I provided scripture saying all are sinners, and that anyone that says they do not have sin is a liar.

Notice that folks were to bring a perfect (without spot or blemish) animal to sacrifice.
And yet that 'perfect' sacrifice could never take away sin.

Hebrews 10:4 KJV
(4) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


So what made the sacrifice 'perfect', since a 'better' sacrifice was needed to take away sin?

Perhaps some are putting the wrong emphasis on the word and trying to limit it's definition too tightly.

 

[glorydaz]

Isn't that what is being done when people say Jesus was 100% GOD in His flesh?

Supported by scripture.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.​

 

[Bright Raven]

Supported by scripture.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.​

Good scripture!

 

[God's Truth]

Supported by scripture.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.​

That means Jesus is God the Father come in the body of a Man.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The scriptures say God is One.

One means the same.

No.

There are two words translated one.

You should study them .

Jesus already said "I AND my Father" which does not mean they are the same.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

That means Jesus is God the Father come in the body of a Man.

No.

It means the fullness of Gods divine nature dwelt in Jesus the man, not just a body.