The Trinity

[lifeisgood]

Let's just say not following what one knows to be true, is to rest in knowing falseness, and to do so, according to scripture, seems to not be the best idea if you value what is good at all.

So you know to be true that faith is dead and you follow that.

As you say:

belief system that says faith is to no effect and doesn't change the believer or cause good works

 

[lifeisgood]

Trick questions because osas isn't truth.

You have to define OSAS when you bring it into the fray.

I told you what I brought, and the contrite nature of my spirit and the plead I did cry, and the utter depravity I did feel. Was any of that needed for GOD to help me? No, not at all. GOD knew every bit of me before I was even conceived. GOD loved me before I ever knew GOD to be true. GOD still proves faithful in all things even as I meander and faulter.

So, you are saying that you DID something TO BE SAVED.

 

[Rosenritter]

You asked if I thought as gt does, that unbelievers can obey GOD while in unbelief.

For your sake I would honestly answer is a resounding yes.

As if one can't repent of a thing without first being shown a sign.

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Concurring with reservation,

Unbelievers could obey God out of fear. That would be obedience, not from belief, but in fearful unbelief. I don't think God wants that type of obedience, or else he would have come before with thunder and lightning, not as a suffering servant.

But it is possible that the one type of obedience might lead to the other.

 

[Rosenritter]

What are you bringing to the cornerstone when the cornerstone provides everything? (Matthew 22)

The cornerstone doesn't do everything, exactly. We are supposed to bring something to the cornerstone. The cornerstone expects something of us.

Mat 21:42-44 KJV
(42) Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
(43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
(44) And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

What can you bring to the cornerstone? A broken and contrite heart, and a willingness to fall upon the Rock. What else can we bring to the cornerstone? We can build our house upon the rock.

Mat 7:24-25 KJV
(24) Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
(25) And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

We are supposed to bring something, lest we be likened to the wicked servant, that chose to bring nothing, and add nothing.

Mat 25:25-28 KJV
(25) And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
(26) His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
(27) Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
(28) Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

I think the two of you would have much to agree on if you attempt to interpret each other's words in a positive light. We are commanded to love one another, even to love our enemies. Surely we're not enemies.

 

[lifeisgood]

The cornerstone doesn't do everything.

Sure He does provide everything. (Matthew 22)

Who provide the banquet?
Who provide the servants to distribute the invitations?
Who provide the invitations?
Who provide the fattened cattle?
Who provide the wedding banquet?
Who provide the wedding clothes?
Who provide the location for the wedding?

We better receive the gift He provides; otherwise, we will be accounted with those who have rejected Him and what He has offered.

 

[lifeisgood]

We are supposed to bring something, lest we be likened to the wicked servant, that chose to bring nothing, and add nothing.

The servant of Matthew 25:25-28 was judged because he rejected the gift.

 

[lifeisgood]

I think the two of you would have much to agree on if you attempt to interpret each other's words in a positive light.

I am sure we would agree on much, however, if we do not agree on the foundation, whatever is built upon it is sinking sand.

 

[Rosenritter]

Sure He does provide everything. (Matthew 22)

Who provide the banquet?
Who provide the servants to distribute the invitations?
Who provide the invitations?
Who provide the fattened cattle?
Who provide the wedding banquet?
Who provide the wedding clothes?
Who provide the location for the wedding?

We better receive the gift He provides; otherwise, we will be accounted with those who have rejected Him and what He has offered.

And...

Who chose whether to respond to the call to come to the banquet?
Who decided whether or not to put on those wedding clothes?
For what reason was that guest thrown out of the banquet?

You picked a good example to demonstrate that there are expectations. I don't think you're denying that either. So there's no reason for argument. You and Pops are just providing different emphasis of the same reality. Which emphasis is more appropriate (or constructive) might depend on the scenario at hand.

 

[Rosenritter]

The servant of Matthew 25:25-28 was judged because he rejected the gift.

Wasn't he rejected, not because he rejected the gift, but because of his lack of application of it for positive ends, to build upon it?

 

[lifeisgood]

Wasn't he rejected, not because he rejected the gift, but because of his lack of application of it for positive ends, to build upon it?

He was invited, there were clothes provided, etc. he was found amongst the invitees but doing whatever he wanted. So, from where I am sitting, he rejected the gift.

 

[lifeisgood]

And...

Who chose whether to respond to the call to come to the banquet?
Who decided whether or not to put on those wedding clothes?
For what reason was that guest thrown out of the banquet?

You picked a good example to demonstrate that there are expectations. I don't think you're denying that either. So there's no reason for argument. You and Pops are just providing different emphasis of the same reality. Which emphasis is more appropriate (or constructive) might depend on the scenario at hand.

If the invitee rejects the gift and brings his/her own gift, then, for me, that invitee has rejected the gift.

So even if the invitee is found in the party, being that he/she rejected the gift, he/she will be cast out of the party.

The problem with some here is that they want to come in bringing their own gift instead of the invitation form. 'Look all my obedience'; 'look all I do'; 'look all the works I do'; etc.

 

[Rosenritter]

If the invitee rejects the gift and brings his/her own gift, then, for me, that invitee has rejected the gift.

So even if the invitee is found in the party, being that he/she rejected the gift, he/she will be cast out of the party.

The problem with some here is that they want to come in bringing their own gift instead of the invitation form. 'Look all my obedience'; 'look all I do'; 'look all the works I do'; etc.

That is a valid concern, but the concern for the other extreme is just as valid.

 

[marhig]

I agree with both points. She needed to clarify, and did, and stated such.

The clarification wouldn't have been needed if referring to Jesus as dead, as opposed to dead to sin. Showing that you too are right.

Needless division just isn't my thing.

You were both right, but she might ougjt to consider not referring to Christ as dead, or the physical Jesus as dead prior to crucifixion.

I hope that clarifies any confusion I may have inadvertently caused or added to.

peace, and thank you for bringing it to my attention.

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Hi pops,

I don't think that I need to change what I said, I said Jesus was dead before he went on the cross for a reason.

Lifeisgood says that we are only saved by the death of Jesus on the cross. No we're not, we are saved through Christ Jesus, by the grace of God through faith and Jesus saved those who had faith and believed in him whilst he was alive.

And I am also pointing out that there is a different death that Jesus also went through. And that is death to self by the power of the Spirit, and he had power over all flesh through the Spirit, which he was born of from his mother's womb, and he was strong in the Spirit from a child and he never sinned.

He lived not to please himself, but lived by the will of God, he was even about his fathers business at the age of 12 years old. And as he grew, he became stronger in God and being dead to the lusts of the flesh, sin, and the rudiments of this world, he showed us the perfect example of how to live before God and brought us the gospel, the ministry of reconciliation, in the hope of saving as many as he could through his life and by the word of God.

That's why I say he was dead before he went on the cross, the are different deaths in the Bible, natural death, death to self, and dead in sin. Jesus was dead to self before he naturally died, and his flesh was dead before they crucified him, they only killed the natural body, they couldn't touch his life within. His heart was full of love and life and he was alive in God, full of mercy and forgiveness.

I know that Jesus had to bare whatsoever was set before him, but I don't believe that his natural death saves us, but rather his death to his flesh so that we can be saved by his life. I know that hardly any agree with me on this, but I know I'm my heart it's the truth. Because it says in the Bible that God was not pleased at them for killing Christ Jesus, God says "touch not my anointed and do my prophets no harm," who is his anointed? Our Lord Jesus Christ. And did they do as God said and touch him not? and did they do the prophets no harm? No! They harmed and killed the prophets and in their hour of darkness at the hands of their father the devil, they scourged, mocked, cast lots, and crucified the Prince of life! By wicked hands they murdered the holy son of the living God, slew him and hung him from a tree, putting him to an open shame. There is nothing loving in that. And I believe that God is love and he wanted his son reverenced not killed as seen in the parable of the wicked husbandmen! (Matthew 21 and Luke 20)

But God foreknew what would happen to Jesus, he knew what Satan would do to him at the hands of wicked men who put their lives before God. And he foretold it through his prophets, and Jesus fulfilled those prophecies including the death on the cross, and he overcame Satan. He overcame his evil with good, and no matter what Satan did to him, what evil he did including murdering him, he didn't sin, not once, thus leaving us a perfect example of how to live before God. And those who are born of God and walk in the Spirit, have his life within, and they live it out, and their hearts and are covered in his blood, and God sees his son in them, and his life within them saves them from the wrath of God. And God keeps the destroyer from entering into their hearts to destroy them, they are sealed by the Holy Spirit, saving them daily, and helping them to overcome, as they live by the will of God. Taking them out of this world by the power of the Spirit though Christ, and bringing them from chains of darkness into his glorious light.

We were dead to God, we were the Spirits in prison that Christ preached to, we were a prisoner of Satan held in this sinful flesh not knowing God, tossed too and fro at satan's will, living to please our flesh and loving the world, in darkness, until the glorious light of God shone upon us, and we heard the gospel of Christ preached into our hearts, bringing those who believed and repented, from death to life.

And none of this could have been achieved without the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave his whole life for us, as a living sacrifice, having no spot or blemish, he brought us a new and living way, he is the way, the truth and the life, and the only way to the father is through him.

Death doesn't save, life saves!

1 peter 3

For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison

Hebrews 10

Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh

 

[marhig]

1 John 1

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth

Luke 22

Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves? When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

There is no darkness in God, darkness is of the devil, and it was the hour of those who belonged to Satan. Those who rejected the light of Christ, those who were carried by the power of darkness. And by the power of darkness, crucified the holy son of the living God.

The power of God is light and life, not darkness and death. There is no darkness whatsoever in God.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Hi pops,

I don't think that I need to change what I said, I said Jesus was dead before he went on the cross for a reason.

Lifeisgood says that we are only saved by the death of Jesus on the cross. No we're not, we are saved through Christ Jesus, by the grace of God through faith and Jesus saved those who had faith and believed in him whilst he was alive.

And I am also pointing out that there is a different death that Jesus also went through. And that is death to self by the power of the Spirit, and he had power over all flesh through the Spirit, which he was born of from his mother's womb, and he was strong in the Spirit from a child and he never sinned.

He lived not to please himself, but lived by the will of God, he was even about his fathers business at the age of 12 years old. And as he grew, he became stronger in God and being dead to the lusts of the flesh, sin, and the rudiments of this world, he showed us the perfect example of how to live before God and brought us the gospel, the ministry of reconciliation, in the hope of saving as many as he could through his life and by the word of God.

That's why I say he was dead before he went on the cross, the are different deaths in the Bible, natural death, death to self, and dead in sin. Jesus was dead to self before he naturally died, and his flesh was dead before they crucified him, they only killed the natural body, they couldn't touch his life within. His heart was full of love and life and he was alive in God, full of mercy and forgiveness.

I know that Jesus had to bare whatsoever was set before him, but I don't believe that his natural death saves us, but rather his death to his flesh so that we can be saved by his life. I know that hardly any agree with me on this, but I know I'm my heart it's the truth. Because it says in the Bible that God was not pleased at them for killing Christ Jesus, God says "touch not my anointed and do my prophets no harm," who is his anointed? Our Lord Jesus Christ. And did they do as God said and touch him not? and did they do the prophets no harm? No! They harmed and killed the prophets and in their hour of darkness at the hands of their father the devil, they scourged, mocked, cast lots, and crucified the Prince of life! By wicked hands they murdered the holy son of the living God, slew him and hung him from a tree, putting him to an open shame. There is nothing loving in that. And I believe that God is love and he wanted his son reverenced not killed as seen in the parable of the wicked husbandmen! (Matthew 21 and Luke 20)

But God foreknew what would happen to Jesus, he knew what Satan would do to him at the hands of wicked men who put their lives before God. And he foretold it through his prophets, and Jesus fulfilled those prophecies including the death on the cross, and he overcame Satan. He overcame his evil with good, and no matter what Satan did to him, what evil he did including murdering him, he didn't sin, not once, thus leaving us a perfect example of how to live before God. And those who are born of God and walk in the Spirit, have his life within, and they live it out, and their hearts and are covered in his blood, and God sees his son in them, and his life within them saves them from the wrath of God. And God keeps the destroyer from entering into their hearts to destroy them, they are sealed by the Holy Spirit, saving them daily, and helping them to overcome, as they live by the will of God. Taking them out of this world by the power of the Spirit though Christ, and bringing them from chains of darkness into his glorious light.

We were dead to God, we were the Spirits in prison that Christ preached to, we were a prisoner of Satan held in this sinful flesh not knowing God, tossed too and fro at satan's will, living to please our flesh and loving the world, in darkness, until the glorious light of God shone upon us, and we heard the gospel of Christ preached into our hearts, bringing those who believed and repented, from death to life.

And none of this could have been achieved without the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave his whole life for us, as a living sacrifice, having no spot or blemish, he brought us a new and living way, he is the way, the truth and the life, and the only way to the father is through him.

Death doesn't save, life saves!

1 peter 3

For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison

Hebrews 10

Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh

I agree Mrs Mary.



I was only noting that we shouldn't refer to Jesus as dead as he walked the earth in order to keep confusion down.
Dead to sin? Sure. Anything else is sorta like ole lifeisgood focusing on the death and blood only. You and I both know that isn't your intention.

peace

Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk

 

[lifeisgood]

That is a valid concern, but the concern for the other extreme is just as valid.

I have to disagree with you.

How can you bring your own stuff when the invitation says 'bring yourself only for I have everything you need already prepared. All I want is you.'

For me things go like this:
Step #1: (until all of #1 is finished, I will not go to step #2)
Step #2: (until all of #2 is finished, I will not go to step #3)
Step #3: (until all of #3 is finished, I will not go to step #4)
Step #10: etc. (until all of #10 is finished, the process is not finished)

Most people start on step 10 without even checking Step #1 - 9.

 

[lifeisgood]

Lifeisgood says that we are only saved by the death of Jesus on the cross. No we're not, we are saved through Christ Jesus, by the grace of God through faith and Jesus saved those who had faith and believed in him whilst he was alive.

The resurrection was NEVER in doubt. The resurrection was a foregone conclusion. What was in question was if Jesus was going to go to the Cross of Calvary or not, that decision was given to Him by the Father. “The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.” (John 3:31–36) Included in ALL things, was His decision to go to the Cross of Calvary or not.

Jesus’ life (as fantastic as it was for there is none other like Him) did not rent the veil that separated man from God.
Jesus’ miracles (no one has ever performed such miracles) did not rent the veil that separated man from God.
Jesus’ teachings (who has ever taught like Him) did not rent the veil that separated man from God.
Jesus’ healings (who has ever made the blind to see) did not rent the veil that separated man from God.

What RENT the veil of separation between man and God?
Christ Jesus’ death on the Cross of Calvary RENT the veil immediately after He said 'It is finished' taking away the barrier between man and God and now allowing man to come boldly to the throne of grace.

How were people in OT times saved? They believed the shed BLOOD of the perfect sacrifice over the Altar covered their sins (saved them).

You receive LIFE because of Him and His Death and ALL that it entails.

 

[lifeisgood]

I agree Mrs Mary.

I was only noting that we shouldn't refer to Jesus as dead as he walked the earth in order to keep confusion down.
Dead to sin? Sure. Anything else is sorta like ole lifeisgood focusing on the death and blood only. You and I both no that isn't your intention.
peace

Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk

Now, you are the third one stating to marhig that we understand what she is saying and telling her that it is inappropriate.

====

The resurrection was NEVER in doubt. The resurrection was a foregone conclusion. What was in question was if Jesus was going to go to the Cross of Calvary or not, that decision was given to Him by the Father. “The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.” (John 3:31–36) Included in ALL things, was His decision to go to the Cross of Calvary or not.

Jesus’ life (as fantastic as it was for there is none other like Him) did not rent the veil that separated man from God.
Jesus’ miracles (no one has ever performed such miracles) did not rent the veil that separated man from God.
Jesus’ teachings (who has ever taught like Him) did not rent the veil that separated man from God.
Jesus’ healings (who has ever made the blind to see) did not rent the veil that separated man from God.

What RENT the veil of separation between man and God?
Christ Jesus’ death on the Cross of Calvary and ALL that it entails RENT the veil immediately when He said 'It is finished' (He wasn't resurrected yet) taking away the barrier between man and God and now allowing man to come boldly to the throne of grace.

It is always Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary and it will always be so. That is what God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) decided even before the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20).

 

[lifeisgood]

A rejector of Christ I'm not, the rest of what you say isn't biblical. I've never read anywhere that says anything about the finished work of Christ on the cross of Calvary is the only way to be saved!

What I have read is that we are saved through our Lord Jesus Christ, by the grace of God through faith.

Which you cannot obtain unless you PASS under the BLOOD.

 

[lifeisgood]

You say Hebrews 9:22 is this

Wrong. No death, no remission of sin.

But this is what it actually says

Hebrews 9:22

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

I believe in the shedding of the blood, but I don't believe that it has anything to do with Jesus saving us by being scourged and crucified! Salvation is through Christ, through faith, by the grace of God.

Therefore, REJECTING the ONLY way of salvation — Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary — which is the ONLY way of obtaining Christ, faith, and the grace of God for He provides for everything for a person TO BE SAVED.