The Trinity

[NWL]

I did answer you.

HUMANS have FLESH and BLOOD BODIES.

Jesus did NOT have a flesh and blood body before coming to earth.

I highlighted the reason why I wanted a direct answer.

I have had people claim to me before that Jesus was human but not a human of flesh and blood before but of spirit, my intention behind my question is to see if you believe Jesus was a human in any sense prior to coming to earth, thus you answer needs to be direct. ​

I will assume you are not one of those people a believe Jesus was in no way a "man/human" prior to coming to earth.

Since you believe Jesus was not a man/human prior to coming to earth how was it possible, as you say, that Jesus was the "Son of Man" prior to coming to earth if the title "son of Man" relates to Jesus being a man/human?

 

[Nihilo]

No, you didn't see, and anyone who can see, they can see that you did not see but you are only acting as if you did.

So did you ever figure out if you mentioned "worship" wrt Mary?

 

[God's Truth]

Calling a believer Satan isn't an attack?

Show how the doctrine she speaks of is of Satan or stop decieving people knowingly, which is, by the way, the work of the deciever.

Blind people really shouldn't be guides lest they and all who follow them walk straight way into a pit.

Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk

Thank you, excellent.

lifeisgood wants you to stand by while another Christian gets attacked. That is just plain wrong.
Not only that, lifeisgood talks about me to you in many posts! He/she involves you and then tells you to stay out of it!

 

[God's Truth]

So did you ever figure out if you mentioned "worship" wrt Mary?

You exalt Mary to that of Queen.

 

[God's Truth]

I highlighted the reason why I wanted a direct answer.

I have had people claim to me before that Jesus was human but not a human of flesh and blood before but of spirit, my intention behind my question is to see if you believe Jesus was a human in any sense prior to coming to earth, thus you answer needs to be direct. ​

I will assume you are not one of those people a believe Jesus was in no way a "man/human" prior to coming to earth.

Since you believe Jesus was not a man/human prior to coming to earth how was it possible, as you say, that Jesus was the "Son of Man" prior to coming to earth if the title "son of Man" relates to Jesus being a man/human?

Because Jesus was He Himself before coming to earth. It is a person's spirit that makes the person.

 

[NWL]

Because Jesus was He Himself before coming to earth. It is a person's spirit that makes the person.

Because Jesus was he himself before coming to earth? I don't think that makes any sense in relation to what I asked or said.

(John 3:13) "..Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man.."

Let me remind you, you take the above scripture to mean that the "son of man" was in heaven and then came to earth, yet you also state Jesus was not a man in heaven.

Either Jesus was the son of man, namely a "man", in heaven and then came to earth or Jesus was not a man when in heaven but became man when he came to earth. You can't be called the "son of man" whilst in heaven without being a man.

So again, you latest answer makes no sense. Jesus being Jesus doesn't negate the clear contradiction in your understanding.

It is a person's spirit that makes the person.

Is this you stating that Jesus prior coming to earth had a spirit of man? I don't see how the above address the issue unless you you're claiming Jesus has a spirit of Man and was thus called the "son of man".

Remember I have no issue in calling Jesus the son of man or Jesus when referring to Jesus pre-human existence, I only highlighted the technicality that Jesus did not become Jesus or the "son of Man" until he came to earth due to someone on this board being dogmatic about that technicality. You argued against this stating that he was, which as you can see contradicts scripture. You also stated that you "proved me wrong", so far you can't even string proper sentences together in relation to issue I've highlighted with your reasoning.

 

[Nihilo]

You exalt Mary to that of Queen.

So is that a yes?

 

[God's Truth]

Because Jesus was he himself before coming to earth? I don't think that makes any sense in relation to what I asked or said.

(John 3:13) "..Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man.."

Let me remind you, you take the above scripture to mean that the "son of man" was in heaven and then came to earth, yet you also state Jesus was not a man in heaven.

Either Jesus was the son of man, namely a "man", in heaven and then came to earth or Jesus was not a man when in heaven but became man when he came to earth. You can't be called the "son of man" whilst in heaven without being a man.

So again, you latest answer makes no sense. Jesus being Jesus doesn't negate the clear contradiction in your understanding.



Is this you stating that Jesus prior coming to earth had a spirit of man? I don't see how the above address the issue unless you you're claiming Jesus has a spirit of Man and was thus called the "son of man".

Remember I have no issue in calling Jesus the son of man or Jesus when referring to Jesus pre-human existence, I only highlighted the technicality that Jesus did not become Jesus or the "son of Man" until he came to earth due to someone on this board being dogmatic about that technicality. You argued against this stating that he was, which as you can see contradicts scripture. You also stated that you "proved me wrong", so far you can't even string proper sentences together in relation to issue I've highlighted with your reasoning.

The same Jesus that came to earth is the same Jesus that was in heaven before coming to earth.

The scriptures plainly tell us that and I gave those scriptures.

We are made in God's image, so two arms, legs, a body, a head...that is what God looks like before we were made.

God the Father is INVISIBLE, but He made Himself a body. That body is the Spiritual body of the Man Jesus.

It is NOT a human body made of flesh and blood.

It is probably a flesh body though that does not decay.

Our spirit inside us is us.

Our spirit grows and changes with our body.

Jesus' Spirit IS THE SPIRIT OF GOD THE FATHER.

You keep wanting me to say Jesus was a Man before coming to earth, all the while you fail to understand that we are made in Jesus' image and that HE had and has a SPIRITUAL BODY, and we do not. We have a spirit, but our bodies are not yet Spiritual.

When we are resurrected with new bodies, we will be given back our flesh bodies, but it will be a body that does not decay, it will be a SPIRITUAL BODY. Spirit, and a Spiritual BODY are two different things.

 

[God's Truth]

So is that a yes?

Catholics worship/venerate Mary, and they also venerate/worship statues.

Catholics also venerate/worship relics.

Relics are material things belonging to those the Catholic popes deem to be "Saints".

A relic from a 'Saint' could be clothing, or it could be their dead decayed body itself.

Do you really want to talk about the Catholic religion?

I would love to talk to you more about the Catholic religion. I would like to help demolish any influence of the Catholic church has over you.

 

[Nihilo]

The same Jesus that came to earth is the same Jesus that was in heaven before coming to earth.

The scriptures plainly tell us that and I gave those scriptures.

We are made in God's image, so two arms, legs, a body, a head...that is what God looks like before we were made.

God the Father is INVISIBLE, but He made Himself a body. That body is the Spiritual body of the Man Jesus.

It is NOT a human body made of flesh and blood.

He bled.

 

[Nihilo]

Catholics worship/venerate Mary, and they also venerate/worship statues.

Catholics also venerate/worship relics.

Relics are material things belonging to those the Catholic popes deem to be "Saints".

A relic from a 'Saint' could be clothing, or it could be their dead decayed body itself.

Do you really want to talk about the Catholic religion?

I would love to talk to you more about the Catholic religion. I would like to help demolish any influence of the Catholic church has over you.

We've already "talked" about Holy Catholicism. It consists of you sputtering out your unlearned opinions, as if you have authority to teach on such things.

 

[NWL]

Nothing you just said addresses the issue, yes Jesus was the same person that he was prior to coming to earth, but again, you stated Jesus was the "son of man" prior coming to earth, this is impossible. Jesus was the "firstborn of the dead" according to Col 1:18, would it be correct to say the Jesus was the "firstborn of the dead" prior coming to earth, or does Jesus being the "firstborn of the dead" only relate to the Jesus after he dead and was resurrected. I think we both know the answer.

Likewise Jesus being the "son of man" relates to his humanity, Jesus only got his human when he became human after he left heaven. I understand what you're saying but again, it does not explain the contradiction I highlighted. Jesus being the "image of God" has nothing to do with out discussion as it does not explain how Jesus was a "Man" in heaven (by the statement "Son of Man") and yet only became "man" when coming to earth.

All you've done is thrown a whole heap of, God made himself a body, our spirit is inside us, Jesus spirit is the spirit of the Father, Jesus has a spiritual body, in a hope this somehow hides the fact you don't have a clue how to answer the question I asked.

The reason why is because Jesus was NOT the "son of Man" prior coming to heaven, scripture only refers to him in some sense the same way we say call Paul by his name Paul even when referencing the account he was Saul, the same way we call Abraham Abraham even when talking about the account he was Abram, the same way we say Jesus took the scroll out of the hand of the one seated on the throne even though it was the Lamb(Jesus).

Again I do not hold that we should entertain technicalities, but its a different matter when you blindly state I am wrong when I highlight that the technicality is technically right.

We are made in God's image, so two arms, legs, a body, a head...that is what God looks like before we were made.

God the Father is INVISIBLE, but He made Himself a body. That body is the Spiritual body of the Man Jesus.

You contradict yourself, you state that God is invisible and made himself a body, that body being the body Jesus is in, yet you initially said that we are made in the image of God. If we are made in the image of God, yet God is invisible and had to at a much later stage make Jesus a physical body who then became Gods image then logic would dictate the God, who created us in his image, who had no visible body but created one for himself being Jesus, then God does not have a physical body, if he did, then he would not have created one, namely a body for Jesus. Your reasoning is not consistent.

I do not believe that Jesus is a physical representation of the Father, no scripture states he is. Scripture does not state the Father is invisible but that God in his entirety (trinity if true included) is invisible. 1 Tim 1:17 that refers to "the only God", meaning the fullness of the trinity, namely Jehovah (not that I believe in the trinity) as invisible.

(1 Timothy 1:17) "..Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.."

Since scripture states that Jesus, after his ascension to heaven, is the "image of God" and the "exact representation of his very being" if God is invisible, the, Jesus as Gods exact image and representation must too be invisible.

You keep wanting me to say Jesus was a Man before coming to earth, all the while you fail to understand that we are made in Jesus' image and that HE had and has a SPIRITUAL BODY, and we do not. We have a spirit, but our bodies are not yet Spiritual.

You are correct that Jesus has a spirit body, this simply adds to my understanding that he is thus invisible, physical beings are visible, spirit bodies are not.

When we are resurrected with new bodies, we will be given back our flesh bodies, but it will be a body that does not decay, it will be a SPIRITUAL BODY. Spirit, and a Spiritual BODY are two different things.

No scripture states that we will be given back out physicial bodies. Physical things decay, scripture states "that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom", thus to say we will get out fleshly bodies back when in heaven goes against scripture.

 

[God's Truth]

We've already "talked" about Holy Catholicism. It consists of you sputtering out your unlearned opinions, as if you have authority to teach on such things.

Maybe you need to be educated about your own denomination.

 

[Nihilo]

Maybe you need to be educated about your own denomination.

Whatever that means.

 

[Nang]

The same Jesus that came to earth is the same Jesus that was in heaven before coming to earth.

The scriptures plainly tell us that and I gave those scriptures.

We are made in God's image, so two arms, legs, a body, a head...that is what God looks like before we were made.

God the Father is INVISIBLE, but He made Himself a body. That body is the Spiritual body of the Man Jesus.

It is NOT a human body made of flesh and blood.

It is probably a flesh body though that does not decay.

Our spirit inside us is us.

Our spirit grows and changes with our body.

Jesus' Spirit IS THE SPIRIT OF GOD THE FATHER.

You keep wanting me to say Jesus was a Man before coming to earth, all the while you fail to understand that we are made in Jesus' image and that HE had and has a SPIRITUAL BODY, and we do not. We have a spirit, but our bodies are not yet Spiritual.

When we are resurrected with new bodies, we will be given back our flesh bodies, but it will be a body that does not decay, it will be a SPIRITUAL BODY. Spirit, and a Spiritual BODY are two different things.

Prime example of how and why misunderstanding the Trinity, causes one to get the Incarnation of Christ wrong, too.

 

[God's Truth]

Nothing you just said addresses the issue, yes Jesus was the same person that he was prior to coming to earth, but again, you stated Jesus was the "son of man" prior coming to earth, this is impossible. Jesus was the "firstborn of the dead" according to Col 1:18, would it be correct to say the Jesus was the "firstborn of the dead" prior coming to earth, or does Jesus being the "firstborn of the dead" only relate to the Jesus after he dead and was resurrected. I think we both know the answer.

Likewise Jesus being the "son of man" relates to his humanity, Jesus only got his human when he became human after he left heaven. I understand what you're saying but again, it does not explain the contradiction I highlighted. Jesus being the "image of God" has nothing to do with out discussion as it does not explain how Jesus was a "Man" in heaven (by the statement "Son of Man") and yet only became "man" when coming to earth.

All you've done is thrown a whole heap of, God made himself a body, our spirit is inside us, Jesus spirit is the spirit of the Father, Jesus has a spiritual body, in a hope this somehow hides the fact you don't have a clue how to answer the question I asked.

The reason why is because Jesus was NOT the "son of Man" prior coming to heaven, scripture only refers to him in some sense the same way we say call Paul by his name Paul even when referencing the account he was Saul, the same way we call Abraham Abraham even when talking about the account he was Abram, the same way we say Jesus took the scroll out of the hand of the one seated on the throne even though it was the Lamb(Jesus).

Again I do not hold that we should entertain technicalities, but its a different matter when you blindly state I am wrong when I highlight that the technicality is technically right.




You contradict yourself, you state that God is invisible and made himself a body, that body being the body Jesus is in, yet you initially said that we are made in the image of God. If we are made in the image of God, yet God is invisible and had to at a much later stage make Jesus a physical body who then became Gods image then logic would dictate the God, who created us in his image, who had no visible body but created one for himself being Jesus, then God does not have a physical body, if he did, then he would not have created one, namely a body for Jesus. Your reasoning is not consistent.

I do not believe that Jesus is a physical representation of the Father, no scripture states he is. Scripture does not state the Father is invisible but that God in his entirety (trinity if true included) is invisible. 1 Tim 1:17 that refers to "the only God", meaning the fullness of the trinity, namely Jehovah (not that I believe in the trinity) as invisible.

(1 Timothy 1:17) "..Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.."

Since scripture states that Jesus, after his ascension to heaven, is the "image of God" and the "exact representation of his very being" if God is invisible, the, Jesus as Gods exact image and representation must too be invisible.



You are correct that Jesus has a spirit body, this simply adds to my understanding that he is thus invisible, physical beings are visible, spirit bodies are not.



No scripture states that we will be given back out physicial bodies. Physical things decay, scripture states "that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom", thus to say we will get out fleshly bodies back when in heaven goes against scripture.

I will have to address this later, have to go for now.

 

[God's Truth]

Prime example of how and why misunderstanding the Trinity, causes one to get the Incarnation of Christ wrong, too.

You are a Catholic trinitarian believer because you chose a father that was a Catholic, John Calvin.

You are steeped in falseness.

 

[Bright Raven]

Jesus is God. We are made in His image.

Jesus did not have a flesh and blood body like humans have.

Clarify

 

[Bright Raven]

No.

The question was--

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

and Jesus was in the rave that day, not in any way capable of remembering the thief.

How is it that you only know the words of the world who do not research the text and just parrot what most think?

LA

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: That is just too stupid to give an answer.

 

[God's Truth]

Clarify

Jesus is God and had a body before coming to earth, his body is like the one we will receive at the resurrection.