Rosenritter
New member
It indicates the Trinity, not the Trinity Doctrine.
Last week I posted quotation from a Trinitarian site admitting that 1 John 5:7 looks as if it gives stronger support for Oneness Theology than Trinitarian.
It indicates the Trinity, not the Trinity Doctrine.
Are you just playing at being ignorant?
For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. - 2 Corinthians 5:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians5:1&version=NKJV
Trinity? Or Trinity doctrine?
If at all possible, I'd like to talk about the Trinity, not the doctrine.
I agree. But the shedding of blood doesn't mean being scourged, brutally beaten mocked and murdered at the hands of wicked men doing the works of their father the devil!
If Jesus being murdered saves us, then Jesus wouldn't have had to ask the father to forgive those who crucified him, he even said to Pilate, those who have handed me over to you have committed the greater sin, so it was sinful to do what they did. And If they needed forgiveness, then what they did was a sin before God!
Thou shalt not kill means just that, and that includes murdering the holy son of the living God!
1 Thessalonians 2
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
God is not the God of the dead but of the living. (Matthew 17:3)
Remember the thief on the cross next to Jesus, the one who believed? How soon did Jesus say that the believing thief would be with Jesus in Paradise?
Nevertheless, David is still dead in his grave to this day--
Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
LA
Because the Word says so.
2 Corinthians 5:6-8 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord— 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight— 8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
It depends on which bible translation you're reading. However, Jesus did promise he would be with him when he was in Paradise, and after a full three days later when he spoke, he had not yet ascended to heaven.
Luke 23:43 ESV
(43) And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
In that translation above, Jesus promises the thief that both he and the thief will be in Paradise that day. However, according to Peter in the book of Acts, the soul of Jesus was in hell during those three days. Let's compare a different translation.
Luke 23:42-43 KJV
(42) And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
(43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
In the translation above, Jesus issues a decree that becomes immediately effective, that the thief will be with Jesus in paradise. No day is given for the fulfillment of the decree, but we do have the context of the previous verse, of "when thou comest into thy kingdom."
It's not a matter of translating the Greek word, it's a matter of choosing the English translation based on context.
Where is Paradise BR?
Paradise, where is it?
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
This brings up a question as to where is Paradise.
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knowethsuch a one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
How could Jesus be in Paradise the day he died if he had not yet assended to his Father on Sunday?
It appears that the comma was inserted in the wrong place.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Or perhaps the translators were smarter than you were and knew what they were doing, how to translate, and correctly translated it?
Just saying...
Then what is you hope?
No.
The question was--
Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
and Jesus was in the rave that day, not in any way capable of remembering the thief.
How is it that you only know the words of the world who do not research the text and just parrot what most think?
LA
Yes.
Eternal destruction is a real thing. Being destroyed eternally is a misunderstanding and contradictory term.
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Yet again you refuse and evade the question, you loose nothing by answer the question, the real reason why you refuse if because you don't want to put yourself into a position that might allow for my point to be correct, that Jesus was likening himself to "a god".
One thing your forgetting...
When Jesus said, "today you will be with me in Paradise," it's possible he was speaking not as just a man, but as the triune God. "Today you will be with Me (the Father) in paradise."
If there's any confusion, revert to the greek.
The word used literally means "today."
2Ki 13:20 And Elisha died, and they buried him. And the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year.
2Ki 13:21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.
You will still see the nail scarred hands and feet.