The Trinity

The Trinity


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God's Truth

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But, 'spiritual' is not vs 'physical'.

The physical body is now a Spiritual one that does not age and die.

Jesus' has the same body that He had when He was crucified, resurrected, and ascended but it took on an incorruptible quality.

Paul says what is buried is not what will be raised: 1 Corinthians 15:37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.


Even John says we do not know what it will be: Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2

So we do not know exactly what we will be like, except that it will be our flesh but not flesh that dies.

He now has a spiritual/physical body but it has a continuity with the body in which He was born.

Do you believe in the 'resurrection' or not?

I believe we will also be given another body at the resurrection of the dead, when Jesus comes again, which brings me back to my question to you about the Jews being saved after Jesus comes back.
 

keypurr

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If the Lord Jesus is no longer human then He failed to redeem humanity.............which He didn't.

GOD put on humanity and lifted humanity up in glory.

You don't know what the word 'resurrection' means, do you?

I disagree, flesh and blood can not enter heaven.
 

Bright Raven

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WRONG.The Son is a man and will be forever.

Hebrews 13:8 New King James Version (NKJV)

8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Acts 1:9-11New King James Version (NKJV)

Jesus Ascends to Heaven
9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

Jesus is a man
by Matt Slick

One of the lesser-known biblical doctrines concerns Jesus as a man right now. Many do not know that right now in heaven Jesus is a man though in a glorified body. Some object to this and cite various reasons (answered at the end of this paper) for denying His present humanity. They are in error. Following is a biblical demonstration that Jesus is still both divine and human in nature:

It is biblically correct to say that Jesus is a man right now in heaven--though a glorified man . But, it would be wrong to say He was only a man. He is both divine and human in nature at the same time (Col. 2:9); He is both God and man right now.

Furthermore, Jesus' humanity now is important for two reasons. First, this is what the Bible teaches. Second, as a man, Jesus is a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. As a priest He forever intercedes for us.

"where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek." (Heb. 6:20).
"Hence, also, He is able to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them." (Heb. 7:25).
In order to be a priest, Jesus has to be a man. A spirit cannot be a priest after the order of Melchizedek; and if Jesus is not a man now, He could not hold His priesthood, and He could not be forever interceding for us. Therefore, to deny Jesus' present humanity is to deny His priesthood and His intercession on our behalf. Without His intercession, we are lost.

Jesus died
There is no dispute that Jesus died on the cross--except for some non-Christian religions and various atheistic groups who deny the biblical record. Nevertheless, the scriptures teach us that Jesus died.
"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus." (1 Thess. 4:14).
Jesus rose from the dead physically
The bible teaches us that Jesus rose from the dead. Unfortunately, some Christians are not aware that Jesus actually rose from the dead in the same body in which He died though it was a glorified body. We see that Jesus prophesied the resurrection of His physical body in John 2:19-21 and fulfilled this in other verses:
"Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." 20 The Jews therefore said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body." (John 2:19-21).
"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." (Luke 24:39).
"When therefore it was evening, on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst, and said to them, "Peace be with you." 20 And when He had said this, He showed them both His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced when they saw the Lord." (John 20:19-20).
"Then He *said to Thomas, "Reach here your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand, and put it into My side; and be not unbelieving, but believing." (John 20:27).
"and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain." (1 Cor. 15:14).
Merely asserting that Jesus rose is not enough. It must be stated that Jesus rose physically lest the very words of Christ be denied.
After Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection
Jesus appeared to various people to demonstrate that He had risen physically. In these verses we see that Jesus said He would raise the temple of His body. This He did, and the body He rose in was the same one He died in since it retained the physical wounds of His crucifixion--He still had holes in His hands and side!
I would like to note here that if anyone denies the resurrection of Christ, his faith is in vain; and he is not a true Christian. It is not enough to say that Jesus rose. You must acknowledge that He rose physically. A "spirit" resurrection is not a resurrection of the body; and without the resurrection of the body of Christ, death has not been conquered, and our faith would be in vain.
Jesus' resurrected body was a glorified body
Jesus rose from the dead physically in the same body in which He died. But, what kind of a body was this physical body in which He rose? Was it subject to death again? Would it grow tired or grow old? The Bible tells us about the resurrected body of which all Christians will receive in the future.
"But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come? . . . 40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So also it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, earthly; the second man is from heaven. 48 As is the earthly, so also are those who are earthly; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly." (1 Cor. 15:35, 40-49).
These verses tell us that something happens to the body that is raised from the dead. Notice that verse 44 says that "it is sown a natural body. It is raised a spiritual body." The same body that is sown (dies) is raised. The natural body is the body with which we are born. The natural body dies and is raised from the dead. But, when it is raised, it is changed into a spiritual body. The resurrected body is different from the natural body in its abilities and qualities as Jesus demonstrated; however, and this is vitally important, it is the same body as before--only "improved," "glorified," "spiritualized," etc. We see this in the fact that Jesus retained the wounds of His crucifixion as evidenced by the holes in His hands and side (John 20:27), yet He was able to simply appear in a room with the disciples without entering through the door (John 20:19-20). He was raised in the same body He died in though it had been glorified.
Jesus is a man in a glorified body.
We have already seen that Jesus was raised from the dead in the same body in which He died, but that body is a resurrected body. However, some people believe that at Jesus' ascension, He was somehow changed, and His physical body was no longer needed. But, this is not what the Bible teaches. There is no place where it states that Jesus stopped being a man. If anything, the New Testament says He is still a man.
"For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form," (Col. 2:9).
"For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." (1 Tim. 2:5).
We see here that Jesus is called a man. Like Col. 2:9 above, this verse uses the present tense ("is"). It clearly states that Jesus is a man.
"And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as a dead man. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades." (Rev. 1:17-18).
Notice that in Col. 2:9 it speaks in the present tense ("dwells"). Colossians was written well after Jesus' ascension into heaven, yet Paul tells us that Jesus is in bodily form. What body would that be? Why, it would be the same body in which He was raised. To clarify that Jesus is a man, read the next verse. In Rev. 1:17-18, Jesus is in heaven, and John the Apostle falls at Jesus' feet; and Jesus laid His right hand on him. Clearly, from these verses we can see that Jesus is in bodily form as a man.
Objections Answered
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Some argue that the Bible says that flesh and blood cannot go to heaven as is stated in 1 Cor. 15:50, "Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."
The term "flesh and blood" is a phrase used to designate the natural state even the carnal state of man.
"And Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven." (Matt. 16:17).
"to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood," (Gal. 1:16).
"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places." (Eph. 6:12).
"Since then the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil," (Heb. 2:14).
After the resurrection, Jesus said, "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." (Luke 24:39). Jesus specifically stated that He had flesh and bones--not flesh and blood. This may seem like a word game, but it is not. Every word is inspired in the Bible, and Jesus chose His words for a reason. Remember, Jesus' blood was drained out of His body on the cross. It is His shed blood that cleanses us of our sins: "but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin." (1 John 1:7). Jesus was the sacrifice, and His blood cleanses us. Therefore, flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, but flesh and bones can.
The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 1 Cor. 15:45 says, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." This verse is not saying that Jesus is without a body, but that He is a life-giving spirit. That is, as the last Adam, He is the one who gives life to people (John 10:27-28). Furthermore, it is designating that Jesus' resurrected body is equipped to be in both the physical realm and the spiritual. (From CARM.org)
 

God's Truth

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Jesus Christ IS one. They became ONE when Jesus was anointed.

So then, are you saying there are four Divine Spirits?

You say God the Father is Spirit, correct?
You say the Holy Spirit is a different Spirit, correct?
You say Christ is a Spirit, correct?
You also say Jesus is not Christ but is a Spirit in heaven too, correct?
 

jamie

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Are you saying the Jews who reject Jesus can have the chance to accept him at the resurrection?

That's what the second resurrection is for, that's its purpose.

Everyone will have an opportunity for salvation. Jesus came so that humanity might be saved through him.
 

steko

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The physical body is now a Spiritual one that does not age and die.

True, but the incorruptible resurrection body is in continuity with the corruptible body which died.

Paul says what is buried is not what will be raised: 1 Corinthians 15:37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.

Take a wet paper towel and place a bean seed folded up inside and in a few days examine it. The outer husk of the bean sloughs off but the bean seed is still there alive and part of the the new plant.
You misunderstand Paul.
He goes on to say that this corruptible body will be changed, not annihilated.
This corruptible will put on incorruption.

Even John says we do not know what it will be: Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2

That doesn't mean that we will be something altogether different like turned into Klingons or something.
John simply meant that none of us know the exact nature of Christ's glorified body, but when Christ 'changes' our vile bodies to be likened to His glorious body (Phil 3:21), it is then that we will have an understanding of something that we cannot possibly know now. Note: Paul does not say in Phil 3:21 that Christ is going to annihilate our vile body and replace it with something altogether different. He says that Christ will 'change' our vile body.

So we do not know exactly what we will be like, except that it will be our flesh but not flesh that dies.

Right, this corruptible must 'put on' incorruption.


I believe we will also be given another body at the resurrection of the dead, when Jesus comes again, which brings me back to my question to you about the Jews being saved after Jesus comes back.

'resurrection/anastasia' means to stand up. Our dead bodies which have gone through corruption will recompose and stand up.

Paul dedicated the whole chapter of 1Co 15 to the reality of the 'resurrection/anastasia'.
If one does not believe that Christ was dead and literally came back to life and stood up then that one is yet in his sins.

No one has ever shown me where Christ's resurrection body changed in His ascension. This same Jesus will return just as He left. So says the angels to the Apostles on the Mount Olivet.
 

steko

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No one enters that grace except through living faith.

So then, how are they going to have their personal sins forgiven since Jesus is NOT coming back to bear sins?

Did the Lord Jesus go back and hang on the cross again to bear your sins at the point at which you placed your faith in Him?
 

God's Truth

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Did the Lord Jesus go back and hang on the cross again to bear your sins at the point at which you placed your faith in Him?

Jesus died once for our sins, he lives to intercede for us...but when he comes again, we have to be ready, which means we cannot be caught sinning, because he is NOT coming to bear sin.
 

God's Truth

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That's what the second resurrection is for, that's its purpose.

Everyone will have an opportunity for salvation. Jesus came so that humanity might be saved through him.

Jesus came the first time so that we have a chance for salvation.

When he comes again it will not be to bear sin.

The Bible says he will come as a thief, and that we should be ready.

You claim people who are not ready will have a chance to be saved.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

Luke 21:34
"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
 

God's Truth

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True, but the incorruptible resurrection body is in continuity with the corruptible body which died.
The Bible says it is changed.
In addition, some bodies have been dead so long there is no trace of their body that was, so how can you say it is a continuity with the corruptible body?

Take a wet paper towel and place a bean seed folded up inside and in a few days examine it. The outer husk of the bean sloughs off but the bean seed is still there alive and part of the the new plant.
You misunderstand Paul.
He goes on to say that this corruptible body will be changed, not annihilated.
This corruptible will put on incorruption.
Again, some people have been dead so long how do you get that when they rise they will be risen with a part of their old body?
That doesn't mean that we will be something altogether different like turned into Klingons or something.
I did not say that; however, we do not know what we will be, just like John says.
John simply meant that none of us know the exact nature of Christ's glorified body, but when Christ 'changes' our vile bodies to be likened to His glorious body (Phil 3:21),
Do you have to say vile bodies? I do not see that in the scriptures.
it is then that we will have an understanding of something that we cannot possibly know now. Note: Paul does not say in Phil 3:21 that Christ is going to annihilate our vile body and replace it with something altogether different. He says that Christ will 'change' our vile body.

Right, this corruptible must 'put on' incorruption.
Right.
'resurrection/anastasia' means to stand up. Our dead bodies which have gone through corruption will recompose and stand up.
Again, some people have their body as ashes spread everywhere.
Paul dedicated the whole chapter of 1Co 15 to the reality of the 'resurrection/anastasia'.
If one does not believe that Christ was dead and literally came back to life and stood up then that one is yet in his sins.

No one has ever shown me where Christ's resurrection body changed in His ascension.
I believe in his Father’s presence.
This same Jesus will return just as He left. So says the angels to the Apostles on the Mount Olivet.
Jesus will return in the clouds from heaven and the dead in Christ will rise first and those alive at his coming will be changed in a twinkling of the eye and all meet Jesus in the air. Then God’s wrath will come on the earth and the unsaved will be thrown in the lake of fire. Jesus will live with us on the new earth and the kingdom will be handed over to the Father.

Nowhere do we hear about Jesus giving the unsaved a chance to change their mind and repent.
In fact, the Bible says that they REFUSED to repent.

Revelation 16:11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

Revelation 16:9 They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.

As you can see from the scriptures, it speaks of people not repenting. That is different than what you say.
 

JudgeRightly

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So then, are you saying there are four Divine Spirits?

You say God the Father is Spirit, correct?
You say the Holy Spirit is a different Spirit, correct?
You say Christ is a Spirit, correct?
You also say Jesus is not Christ but is a Spirit in heaven too, correct?

The four persons of the trinity! :)

Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app
 

jamie

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You claim people who are not ready will have a chance to be saved.

Jesus said, "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."

However, during this age only a relatively few will be chosen to serve with Christ in his kingdom. The rest will be offered salvation during the Great Day.
 
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