The Trinity

[Rosenritter]

Ever consider that there are many worlds and Christ is Lord over this one? Maybe his Father is God of all the worlds in the Universe.

Christ, the spirit son, is firstborn of all creation. He took the form of man in Jesus. So Jesus Christ is first and last. But that does not make him God.

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Isaiah says it DOES make him God. Are you reading these words?

Isaiah 41:4 KJV
Who hath wrought and done it , calling the generations from the beginning? I the Lord , the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isaiah 44:6 KJV
Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:11-13 KJV
For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it : for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. [12] Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. [13] Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

That makes JESUS the Lord, the Lord of Hosts, there is NO OTHER GOD, the CREATOR, and this glory and this name is NOT GIVEN TO ANOTHER.

I am starting to agree that you may simply be stubborn. What ever philosophy you invent (see Col 2:8) does not erase these words. Seriously, what is your real objection that you are not telling us? Do you have that much PRIDE in this "spirit son" theory that you have invented that you would argue against Jesus and the prophets?


Colossians 2:8 KJV
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

[Rosenritter]

Matthew 19:26 “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Can God lie?

Can God make a rock so heavy he cannot lift it?

Can God force Keypurr to willingly acknowledge, love, and embrace divine revelation against his will?

 

[jamie]

Can God force Keypurr to willingly acknowledge, love, and embrace divine revelation against his will?

No, but he can open a person's mind to understand the scriptures.

Luke 24:45 And He opened their understanding that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

I'm hoping that might happen with keypurr if the Father is calling him.

 

[mitchellmckain]

Is the Trinity biblical?

Yes.

Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?

No.

The doctrine of the Trinity is that the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are three distinct persons but only one God. This doctrine not in the original text in any way shape or form. However, you can say that it is the concept of God which is most compatible with the whole of the canon taken seriously requiring less dismissal, adding to, and/or explaining away various passages. However, I think the canon itself was decided on by people who believed in this doctrine so it is not like this is any kind of objective evidence for the truth of it.

The fact that it is not in the text is something I like about the doctrine -- punching a hole in absurd claims that all accepted beliefs of Christianity is derived from the Bible alone. Even more I like the fact that this makes God something which is not created in our own image. Our inability to fit this into a simple common sense picture is another thing I like about it because it reminds me of similar difficulties in scientific discovery.

 

[Apple7]

The doctrine of the Trinity is that the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are three distinct persons but only one God. This doctrine not in the original text in any way shape or form.

It is right here...

πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος

 

[jamie]

πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος

The Holy Spirit is the kingdom of God.

 

[Apple7]

The Holy Spirit is the kingdom of God.

Scripture?

 

[jamie]

The doctrine of the Trinity is that the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are three distinct persons but only one God. This doctrine not in the original text in any way shape or form.

That's because it had not been revealed explicitly who is the manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

But now we can know.

 

[jamie]

Scripture?

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.

The Spirit of God is holy and we are the manifestation of that holy Spirit.

We are family.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Trinitarianism is taught in the bible if you accept the Catholic insertions as opposed to the original script.

That's a lie based on another lie.

 

[Apple7]

The Holy Spirit is the kingdom of God.


Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.

The Spirit of God is holy and we are the manifestation of that holy Spirit.

We are family.

The Kingdom of God does not enter into you...you enter into it...

Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, If one is not generated out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. John 3.5

 

[jamie]

The Kingdom of God does not enter into you...you enter into it...

Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God so there are currently only two members.

However, the Father and Son indwell us so we are a manifestation of them.

Acts 5:1-3 But a certain man named Ananias with Sapphira his wife sold a possession. And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit?"

In lying to the apostles he was lying to the Holy Spirit in them.

 

[Apple7]

Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God so there are currently only two members.

However, the Father and Son indwell us so we are a manifestation of them.

Acts 5:1-3 But a certain man named Ananias with Sapphira his wife sold a possession. And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit?"

In lying to the apostles he was lying to the Holy Spirit in them.

No.

What you missed...


But Peter said, Ananias, why did Satan fill your heart for you to lie to the Holy Spirit and to secretly keep back from the price of the land? Remaining, did it not remain yours? And being sold, was it not in your authority? Why is it that this action was put into your heart? You did not lie to men, but to God! Acts 5.3-4

 

[keypurr]

Isaiah says it DOES make him God. Are you reading these words?

Isaiah 41:4 KJV
Who hath wrought and done it , calling the generations from the beginning? I the Lord , the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isaiah 44:6 KJV
Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:11-13 KJV
For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it : for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. [12] Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. [13] Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

That makes JESUS the Lord, the Lord of Hosts, there is NO OTHER GOD, the CREATOR, and this glory and this name is NOT GIVEN TO ANOTHER.

I am starting to agree that you may simply be stubborn. What ever philosophy you invent (see Col 2:8) does not erase these words. Seriously, what is your real objection that you are not telling us? Do you have that much PRIDE in this "spirit son" theory that you have invented that you would argue against Jesus and the prophets?


Colossians 2:8 KJV
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

You just do not see things the way I do.

I believe Jesus Christ when he said he was going to his God. We know that there is only one God, so Jesus Christ is not God. You follow men, not what is in the content of scripture, you assume things that do not exist. If scripture appears to conflict prove your thoughts from all sides to seek the truth. No one has more creditability than Jesus Christ. Jesus tells us his Father is the only God, argue with him if you wish.

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[keypurr]

Can God lie?

Can God make a rock so heavy he cannot lift it?

Can God force Keypurr to willingly acknowledge, love, and embrace divine revelation against his will?

Some divine revelation has been given to me friend. After many years my prayers were answered. Limited yes, but comforting. I share my thoughts and faith, I make no demands for others to embrace them.

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[journey]

There are heretics in this thread who aren't going to change, regardless of how much time and effort is invested. Their hearts are hardened and their ears are closed. Some have been trying to help them for years without a hint of success. I've seen this thread go in circles for a long time - the same points being made by both sides over and over again. The bottom line is simple: some are determined to remain heretics regardless of what evidence is given to them. It's past time to dust off the sandals and try to help someone else.

 

[Apple7]

There are heretics in this thread who aren't going to change, regardless of how much time and effort is invested. Their hearts are hardened and their ears are closed. Some have been trying to help them for years without a hint of success. I've seen this thread go in circles for a long time - the same points being made by both sides over and over again. The bottom line is simple: some are determined to remain heretics regardless of what evidence is given to them. It's past time to dust off the sandals and try to help someone else.

Its like debating against a bunch of Mrs. Bill Clinton supporters...they don't want to hear what you have to say....even as the mountain of evidence against them is as high as MT Everest...

 

[jamie]

Some divine revelation has been given to me friend.

But divine revelations must be tested against scripture. Paul was given divine revelation but he did not expect people to take his word for it. He commended the Bereans for checking what he said against scripture.

Your divine revelation falls short of scripture.

 

[keypurr]

There are heretics in this thread who aren't going to change, regardless of how much time and effort is invested. Their hearts are hardened and their ears are closed. Some have been trying to help them for years without a hint of success. I've seen this thread go in circles for a long time - the same points being made by both sides over and over again. The bottom line is simple: some are determined to remain heretics regardless of what evidence is given to them. It's past time to dust off the sandals and try to help someone else.

And there are thoes who just continue to walk in the blackness. They are content to follow the crowd. They do not wish to rock their boat.


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[jamie]

You did not lie to men, but to God! Acts 5.3-4

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.

Just where do you think the Father is?

Ananias was not lying to men, he lied to the Holy Spirit manifested by the apostles.