The Trinity

The Trinity


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Nihilo

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. . . the Church's bishops are featured in Scripture, and are the Lord's own authorized teachers of the one Christian faith, in Him.
Incorrect. The Roman Catholic Church did not exist before Jesus birth
Nobody said that she did, nobody. Straw man.
, during Jesus' time on earth
Nobody said that either, straw man.
, after Jesus' Ascension
Ten days after His Ascension, the Church was born.
until the supposed 'conversion' of Constantine.
The Church had existed almost 300 years by that time.
Even reading the New Testament (NT) in a cursory manner reveals that the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) did not originate in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles.
Then you should read more carefully.
No mention of the papacy in NT.
The papacy is the successorship of Peter, who was the leader of the Apostles, the first among equals. And Peter is in the Bible.
No mention of worship/adoration of Mary
Nobody teaches to worship Mary.
No mention of the immaculate conception of Mary.
There are lots of true things that are not mentioned in the Bible.
No mention of the perpetual virginity of Mary.
No mention of the assumption of Mary.
Ditto.
No mention of Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix.
Did she or did she not bear our Lord from her womb?
No mention of petitioning the dead.
There is that pesky cloud of witnesses.
No mention of apostolic succession.
The imposition of hands is in the Bible.
No mention of the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments.
All seven sacraments are mentioned in the Bible.
No mention of infant baptism.

No mention of confession of sin to a sinner even though called priest.
No mention of purgatory.
No mention of indulgences.
No mention of the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture.
etc., etc., etc.

For around 280 years Christians were persecuted terribly and Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire until the supposed 'conversion' of Constantine around 313 AD.

You should start a new thread as this thread is about the Trinity not the RCC.
I noticed you didn't address bishops, even though they are featured in the Bible. I also noticed that you never confess that the Catholic Church's teaching on the Trinity is true. Are you of the opinion, like Gt, that the bishops were just a temporary office of the Church, and that she no longer needs overseers/elders, because now we have the Bible?
 

lifeisgood

New member
Ten days after His Ascension, the Church was born.

NOT the RCC (Roman Catholic Church).

The Church had existed almost 300 years by that time.

NOT the RCC (Roman Catholic Church).

The papacy is the successorship of Peter, who was the leader of the Apostles, the first among equals.

Incorrect.

Jesus said that no one Apostle was going to be the leader over any one of the other Apostles.

Mark 10:42-45 - And Jesus called them to him and said to them, “You know that those who are considered rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. But it shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be slave of all. For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
And Peter is in the Bible.
Yes, Peter is in the Bible, however, even Peter taught that they were simply examples for them and had no lordship (dominion) over the flock.

1 Peter 5:2-3 - Not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock.

Peter would be the first one to say that he was nobody's infallible pope.

I noticed you didn't address bishops, even though they are featured in the Bible. I also noticed that you never confess that the Catholic Church's teaching on the Trinity is true. Are you of the opinion, like Gt, that the bishops were just a temporary office of the Church, and that she no longer needs overseers/elders, because now we have the Bible?

It was included in the etc., etc., etc. BTW When the Bible talks about elders/overseers it is NOT talking about RCC priests/bishops/cardinals/popes.

Elders/overseers are simply pastors/leaders/shepherds of the flock who set the example for the flock.

Nothing in the Bible about the flock bowing to the bishop/elder/overseer/shepherd or kissing the ring of any of the Apostles.

There is no clear evidence for a monarchical episcopate being firmly established until the early decades of the second century.

Nowadays, we have pastors.

I noticed you did not touch the false doctrine of the RCC about Mary.

=====

You should start a new thread as this thread is about the Trinity not the RCC (Roman Catholic Church).
 

JudgeRightly

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See complete list: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False...ies-a_list.htm
Though this list came from the site of Jesus is Savior, it does not mean I support all the beliefs of that site, it merely means I agree that this list is very informative and helpful in demolishing the influence of the Catholic denomination.

The kissing of the Pope's feet

It had been a pagan custom to kiss the feet of emperors. The Word of God forbids such practices. (Read Acts 10:25-26; Revelation 19:10; 22:9). 709
The Temporal power of the Popes

When Pepin, the usurper of the throne of France, descended into Italy, called by Pope Stephen II, to war against the Italian Lombards, he defeated them and gave the city of Rome and surrounding territory to the pope. Jesus expressly forbade such a thing, and He himself refused worldly kingship. (Read Matthew 4:8-9; 20:25-26; John 18:38). 750
Worship of the cross, images and relics was authorized

This was by order of Dowager Empress Irene of Constantinople, who first caused to pluck the eyes of her own son, Constantine VI, and then called a church council at the request of Hadrian I, pope of Rome at that time.

Such practice is called simply IDOLATRY in the Bible, and is severely condemned. (Read Exodus 20:4; 3:17; Deuteronomy 27:15; Psalm 115). 788
Holy Water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by the priest, was authorized 850
The veneration of St. Joseph began 890
The baptism of bells was instituted by Pope John XIV 965
Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV

Every believer and follower of Christ is called saint in the Bible. (Read Romans 1:7; 1st Colossians 1:2). 995
Fasting on Fridays and during Lent were imposed

Imposed by popes said to be interested in the commerce of fish. (Bull, or permit to eat meat), some authorities say, began in the year 700. This is against the plain teaching of the Bible. (Read Matthew 15:10; 1st Corinthians 10:25; 1st Timothy 4:1-3). 998
The Mass was developed gradually as a sacrifice; attendance made obligatory in the 11th century.

The Bible teaches that the sacrifice of Christ was offered once and for all, and is not to be repeated, but only commemorated in the Lord's Supper. (Read Hebrews 7:27; 9:26-28; 10:10-14).
The celibacy of the priesthood was decreed by Pope Hildebrand, Boniface VII

Jesus imposed no such rule, nor did any of the apostles. On the contrary, St. Peter was a married man, and St. Paul says that bishops were to have wife and children. (Read 1st Timothy 3:2,5, and 12; Matthew 8:14-15). 1079
The Rosary, or prayer beads was introduced by Peter the Hermit, in the year 1090. Copied from Hindus and Mohammedans

The counting of prayers is a pagan practice and is expressly condemned by Christ. (Matthew 6:5-13). 1090
The Inquisition of heretics was instituted by the Council of Verona in the year 1184. Jesus never taught the use of force to spread His religion 1184
The sale of Indulgences, commonly regarded as a purchase of forgiveness and a permit to indulge in sin.

Christianity, as taught in the Bible, condemns such a traffic and it was the protest against this traffic that brought on the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. 1190
The dogma of Transubstantiation was decreed by Pope Innocent III, in the year

By this doctrine the priest pretends to perform a daily miracle by changing a wafer into the body of Christ, and then he pretends to eat Him alive in the presence of his people during Mass. The Bible condemns such absurdities; for the Lord's Supper is simply a memorial of the sacrifice of Christ. The spiritual presence of Christ is implied in the Lord's Supper. (Read Luke 22:19-20; John 6:35; 1st Corinthians 11:26). 1215
Confession of sin to the priest at least once a year was instituted by Pope Innocent III., in the Lateran Council

The Bible commands us to confess our sins direct to God. (Read Psalm 51:1-10; Luke 7:48; 15:21; 1st John 1:8-9). 1215
The adoration of the wafer (Host), was decreed by Pope Honorius

So the Roman Church worships a God made by human hands. This is plain idolatry and absolutely contrary to the spirit of the Gospel. (Read John 4:24). 1220
The Bible forbidden to laymen and placed in the Index of forbidden books by the Council of Valencia

Jesus commanded that the Scriptures should be read by all. (John 5:39; 1st Timothy 3:15-17). 1229
The Scapular was invented by Simon Stock, and English monk

It is a piece of brown cloth, with the picture of the Virgin and supposed to contain supernatural virtue to protect from all dangers those who wear it on naked skin. This is fetishism. 1287
The Roman Church forbade the cup to the laity, by instituting the communion of one kind in the Council of Constance

The Bible commands us to celebrate the Lord's Supper with unleavened bread and the fruit of the vine. (Read Matthew 26:27; 1st Corinthians 11:26-29). 1414
The doctrine of Purgatory was proclaimed as a dogma of faith by Council of Florence

There is not one word in the Bible that would teach the purgatory of priests. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sins. (Read 1st John 1:7-9; 2:1-2; John 5:24; Romans 8:1). 1439
The doctrine of 7 Sacraments affirmed

The Bible says that Christ instituted only two ordinances, Baptism and the Lord's Supper. (Read Matthew 28:19-20; 26:26-28). 1439
The Ave Maria, part of the last

It was completed 50 years afterward and finally approved by Pope Sixtus V, at the end of the 16th century. 1508
The Council of Trent, held in the year 1545, declared that Tradition is of equal authority with the Bible

By tradition is meant human teachings. The Pharisees believed the same way, and Jesus bitterly condemned them, for by teaching human tradition, they nullified the commandments of God. (Read Mark 7:7-13; Colossians 2:8; Revelation 22:18). 1545
The apocryphal books were added to the Bible also by the Council of Trent

These books were not recognized as canonical by the Jewish Church. (See Revelation 22:8-9). 1546
The Creed of Pope Pius IV was imposed as the official creed 1560 years after Christ and the apostles

True Christians retain the Holy Scriptures as their creed. Hence their creed is 1500 years older than the creed of Roman Catholics. (Read Galatians 1:8). 1560
The Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary was proclaimed by Pope Pius IX

The Bible states that all men, with the sole exception of Christ, are sinners. Mary herself had need of a Savior. (Read Romans 3:23; 5:12; Psalm 51:5; Luke 1:30,46,47). 1834
In the year 1870 after Christ, Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of Papal Infallibility

This is a blasphemy and the sign of the apostasy and of the antichrist predicted by St. Paul. (Read 2nd Thessalonians 2:2-12; Revelation 17:1-9; 13:5-8,18).

Pope Plus X, in the year 1907, condemned together with "Modernism", all the discoveries of modern science which are not approved by the Church

Pius IX had done the same thing in the Syllabus of 1864. 1907
In the year 1930 Pius XI, condemned the Public Schools 1930
In the year 1931 the same pope Pius XI, reaffirmed the doctrine that Mary is "the Mother of God"

This doctrine was first invented by the Council of Ephesus in the year 431. This is a heresy contrary by Mary's own words. (Read Luke 1:46-49; John 2: l-5). 1931
In the year 1950 the last dogma was proclaimed by Pope Pius XII, the Assumption of the Virgin Mary 1950
You're a hypocrite, GT. First you say that you don't follow links from people because you think people should be able to defend their beliefs on their own, without using any external help, and then you yourself post a link to another site.

God's Truth: YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE AND CANNOT BE TRUSTED.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
You're a hypocrite, GT. First you say that you don't follow links from people because you think people should be able to defend their beliefs on their own, without using any external help, and then you yourself post a link to another site.

God's Truth: YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE AND CANNOT BE TRUSTED.

Yep, she is one of the premier hypocrites on TOL.


We should make them each wear a sign of some sort. :think:
 

popsthebuilder

New member
Who told you who the whore of Babylon represents? Show me the scripture that supports your view.
No one told me.
It is readily discernible from scripture.

You even asked guiltily ("who told you"; as opposed to "what makes you think") , and I already told you that it is observable based on their works, which I actually listed. The correlation is self evident.

Mind you please; I am strictly speaking of the ancient roman catholic church. It also seems as if they were too responsible for the destruction and or stealing of many sacred texts, and further still; manipulating others. I am not referring to the Bible.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
Hosea 14: 2. Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips. 3. Asshur shall not save us; we will not ride upon horses: neither will we say any more to the work of our hands, Ye are our gods: for in thee the fatherless findeth mercy. 4. I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him. 5. I will be as the dew unto Israel: he shall grow as the lily, and cast forth his roots as Lebanon. 6. His branches shall spread, and his beauty shall be as the olive tree, and his smell as Lebanon. 7. They that dwell under his shadow shall return; they shall revive as the corn, and grow as the vine: the scent thereof shall be as the wine of Lebanon. 8. Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found. 9. Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the LORD are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein.
 

God's Truth

New member
You're a hypocrite, GT. First you say that you don't follow links from people because you think people should be able to defend their beliefs on their own, without using any external help, and then you yourself post a link to another site.

God's Truth: YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE AND CANNOT BE TRUSTED.

You are making up things that I did not say. You are the one who cannot be trusted.
 

God's Truth

New member
Wrong! For example, Abraham was NOT righteous, GOD IMPUTED to Abraham righteousness.

Abraham believed and obeyed God and that is why he was righteous.

Of his own, Abraham, and EVERYBODY else in the Bible were not righteous, UNLESS GOD IMPUTED to them God's righteousness, it matters not how much good they did, without God they were all UNrighteous.

False teachings sure did a number on you.
 

God's Truth

New member
Ezekiel 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.

Luke 1:30 But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid,Mary; you have found favor with God.

Acts 22:12 "A man named Ananias came to see me. He was a devout observer of the law and highly respected by all the Jews living there.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: "He could not be found, because God had taken him away." For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.


Acts 10:22 The men replied, "We have come fromCornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people.

Luke 7:4 When they came to Jesus, they pleaded earnestly with him, "This man deserves to have you do this,

Luke 2:25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem calledSimeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was on him.

John 1:47 When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, "Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit."

Psalm 69:28 May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

Genesis 7:1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.

Abraham. Genesis 22:18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."

1 Kings 15:5 For David had done what was right in the eyes of the LORD and had not failed to keep any of the LORD's commands all the days of his life--except in the case of Uriah the Hittite.

Job 1:1, 8 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God...

Luke 1:6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commands and decrees blamelessly
 

God's Truth

New member
Per your own confession not that long ago, maybe a couple of responses ago, gt, you do not follow EVERYTHING that Jesus commands because you, yourself, gt, said that the commands that I asked you about that Jesus commanded, you, yourself, gt, said that those commands were not for you. Therefore, I have to conclude that your list is invisible but you want everybody else to follow your invisible list.



What is it that your list tells you, gt, besides the two commands Jesus said His followers are to follow?



Why don't you have the guts to enlighten me and show your precise list with all the minute details so that we can all follow it like you do! :nono:



Don't have the guts to show your list. Got it.


These are the ones Jesus said I must follow:
Matthew 22

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

You can't obey those commands unless you obey all of Jesus' commands.
 

lifeisgood

New member
Abraham believed and obeyed God and that is why he was righteous.

Incorrect. Abraham was UNrighteous until GOD IMPUTED to him GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Now, you want to believe that you are righteous by what you do and go against God's Truth for God says, "There is no one righteous, not even one", well, that's your problem and not God's, wouldn't you say.

False teachings sure did a number on you.

I, in and of myself, am not righteous for there is not one person that is righteous (God said so - Ecclesiastes 7:20, confirmed by Paul in Romans 3:10), however, God in His incredible mercy and grace toward a sinner such as myself placed me in His Son and because His Son is righteous, and perfect, etc., etc., God seeing His Son' righteousness, sees me, an UNdeserving one, righteous. However, me, I, and myself am NOT righteous, in and of myself, without God's IMPUTED grace towards me.

Now, you want to go AGAINST God's Truth, please, go right ahead.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Incorrect. Abraham was UNrighteous until GOD IMPUTED to him GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Now, you want to believe that you are righteous by what you do and go against God's Truth for God says, "There is no one righteous, not even one", well, that's your problem and not God's, wouldn't you say.
She is just a ball of confusion.

Rom 4:9-12 (AKJV/PCE)
(4:9) [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. (4:10) How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. (4:11) And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: (4:12) And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which [he had] being [yet] uncircumcised.

She claims to believe the Bible, but does NOT believe that passage.

Paul makes it crystal clear that Abraham received the reckoning/imputation of righteousness BEFORE he did ANYTHING but believe God.
 

God's Truth

New member
She is just a ball of confusion.

Rom 4:9-12 (AKJV/PCE)
(4:9) [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. (4:10) How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. (4:11) And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: (4:12) And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which [he had] being [yet] uncircumcised.

She claims to believe the Bible, but does NOT believe that passage.

Paul makes it crystal clear that Abraham received the reckoning/imputation of righteousness BEFORE he did ANYTHING but believe God.

So you are saying Paul went against the author of Hebrews?

Paul says Abraham was righteous BEFORE CIRCUMCISION, before the work of circumcision.

See, it is between faith we are made clean or works of the ceremonial/purification rites.

I can hardly believe that so many have been deceived to think faith and no works means faith and no obey anything.

WOW, UNBELIEVABLE.
 
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