The Trinity

The Trinity


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Rosenritter

New member
And where might those occurrences be?

Ah yes, we've been talking about those appearances, have you forgotten, you've failed miserably at responding back to my point regarding your reasoning.

Jacob wrestled with a man who implied he was God - Gen 32:28
Jacob stated "I have seen God face-to-face" - Gen 32:30
Yet
Jacob asked God what his name was even though he already knew Gods name - Compare Gen 28:16, Gen 32:29

So answer me, if Jacob knew that the angel was Jehovah stating he saw God face-to-face, why ask what his name was?

As evidenced in God's answer back to Jacob, "why do you ask my name?" But since you insist, I'll spell this out you :

1. Jacob showed a spot of self-doubt or lack of faith, similar to when Peter walked on water and then faltered. In order to ask for the blessing in the first place, Jacob had to have known who he was dealing with. This blessing was asked in faith, nothing wavering.

2. The answer is self-evident from the name given to Jacob. The name that was given him had meaning, and the passage translates that meaning for us:

Genesis 32:28 KJV
(28) And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Jacob had prevailed over men before, but he had certainly never had power with God and prevailed before. The only way this would have application is through his recent struggle, even when his thigh was supernaturally dislocated.

3. The answer is self-evident from the answer he received. Why do you first ask for my blessing, knowing what that implies, and then ask for my name? You already know. You knew to ask the blessing, you know the meaning of the name that was given you.

4. The answer is self-evident from Jacob's understanding of what happened, for he named the place Peniel.

Genesis 32:30 KJV
(30) And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

So it would seem from Jacob's naming of the event, that came out of that with a different understanding than what you just advocated.

NWL, you and I both know why this point is being debated. The JW theology has a vital assumption that God cannot and will not ever make personal appearance before men or on this earth. I'm telling you that that specific assumption is not biblical, it's not gospel, nor was it the understanding of the Hebrew patriarchs.

I've just given four numbered points as to why Jacob knew he had wrestled with the LORD in the flesh. I'm sure he didn't know why he was randomly attacked at first, but by the end he knows enough to ask for his blessing in faith, the name that is given him identifies him as one who has power with God and prevailed, the being he wrestled dismisses his request that he name himself after all that because it is obviously unnecessary now, and Jacob sums up the event as "I have seen God, and lived."

Somehow, your interpretation differs from that of Jacob. I am inclined to believe Jacob.
 

God's Truth

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I realize you will not understand that verse, but where "the Lord is that Spirit" does not mean Jesus is a Spirit.
Just believe the Word of God.
The Word of God says the Lord is the Spirit and that is what he is.

So on one hand you claim Jesus is a Spirit, and on the other hand that Jesus was made sinful flesh.
I see you don't value truth.
Show where I said that.
Do you know who the father of lies is?

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

You do not know what either statement means.

Jesus did not come from Heaven. He came from mankind as the seed of Abraham.
The Bible says plainly that he came from heaven.

However the Word which bought Him forth, and spoke through Him was by the Holy Spirit, which came from Heaven.

It seems you have no idea of anything.

LA

By the way, your tongue speaking and prophecies are bad copy cats of the real thing.
 

Rosenritter

New member
Stop evading and answer the question, I'll deal with your above response after you've answered:

If for arguments sake Jesus was a little god or secondary god to Almighty God Jehovah, if the Jews said to Jesus "we are stoning for blasphemy because you make yourself a god" and Jesus said "are you not gods" would Jesus comparing himself to them as being "little gods", just like them, be a good defence for an accusation of blasphemy if Jesus was NOT God but a god?

The Jews didn't stone someone for making themselves "a god" by your own definition. Your own argument self-destructs in on itself.

How long are you going to persist in demanding an answer to a question based on an obviously flawed premise?
 

Rosenritter

New member
The only true God, the creator of all that is, bought forth a son through Mary and conformed His life to His living Word, before God joined Him and walked in Him from His baptism onward but not permanently until His resurrection and Glorification in Gods presence.

John 1:1-3 KJV
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(2) The same was in the beginning with God.
(3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:14-16 KJV
(14) In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
(15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
(16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

If we're talking about the one true God, the creator of all things, he has a name that he's given to us in these recent times.
 

God's Truth

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The only true God, the creator of all that is, bought forth a son through Mary and conformed His life to His living Word, before God joined Him and walked in Him from His baptism onward but not permanently until His resurrection and Glorification in Gods presence.

When men claim from Rev. that Jesus is God, then they declare that they do not recognize the union of the Father with His Son and do not believe the record of the Bible.

Jesus is not God Himself but has and is everything that the Father can be in a man.

There is no wrath in Jesus, but can be the instrument of his Fathers wrath.

You can not understand that.

LA

Read post 12315

You go against what the scriptures plainly say.

The scriptures plainly say more than once that the Lord is the Spirit.

The scriptures plainly say many times that Jesus came from heaven.

I think you are involved with something not right and you would need to repent.
 

Rosenritter

New member
Yeah, so?

Curious... where do you derive that "everyone [saints] in heaven can hear Everyone's Prayers?"

John 11:41-42 KJV
(41) Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
(42) And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

I could use the passage above to establish that God hears us always, with the passage in Matthew below to show that God can hear us when we pray softly and singly, but I'm not sure what you'd use to establish that anyone else has this omniscience.

Matthew 6:6-8 KJV
(6) But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
(7) But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
(8) Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
 

God's Truth

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What makes you think there are separate spirits or souls in heaven? Curious really

What makes you think we are conscious(even of past life/or not) in actual physical death prior to the day of resurrection?

Do you think everyone separate spirit has its own separate resurrection instantly upon physical death?

Please excuse my ignorance.

I find it interesting.



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I don't have the same beliefs as JR, but don't you believe that our spirits live on after the death of our bodies?
 

Rosenritter

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I don't have the same beliefs as JR, but don't you believe that our spirits live on after the death of our bodies?

Who was God speaking to when he promised that the reward for death would be, "Thou shalt surely die?" Was he speaking to the bodies of Adam and Eve, or to the beings that disobeyed his commandment?
 

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Who was God speaking to when he promised that the reward for death would be, "Thou shalt surely die?" Was he speaking to the bodies of Adam and Eve, or to the beings that disobeyed his commandment?

We die physically, but the spirit does not die.

If you think dying physically isn't really dying, then you have some problems.
 

glorydaz

New member
Who was God speaking to when he promised that the reward for death would be, "Thou shalt surely die?" Was he speaking to the bodies of Adam and Eve, or to the beings that disobeyed his commandment?

We do know the body shall surely die...it was part of the curse.

"till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return".
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Duh, I'm pretty sure that's what we're talking about here, which is why I quoted it.



No, Paul is talking about when we die.

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent [our physical body], is destroyed [ie, we are killed or die], we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens [a new heavenly body]. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tent [our current body] groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight.We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord - 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians5:1-8&version=NKJV

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. In other words, when we (Christians) die, we are immediately transported to Heaven to be with God, and are given a new body to dwell in.

On the other hand, those who are not believers, when they die, will not be given a new body.



"Uncontained" is a word, and is the word I wanted to use.



How so?

Then why is he returning for us if we are already in heaven? That's does not seem to make sense friend.
 

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Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

There is one God not 3.


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That is not the trinity doctrine either.
 

Truster

New member
Exactly; negating the presuposition that "him" declares person or people or beasts but can too refer to asexual or inanimate objects.

How would a gate open of its own accord anyway;

Must've had a spirit...

Sorry; just seemed like a fun little topic.

I'm glad we haven't been at each others throats lately.



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I haven't read any of your stupid statements until this one...
 

Lazy afternoon

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Just believe the Word of God.
The Word of God says the Lord is the Spirit and that is what he is.

No. You deny the Son of God.

Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.



I see you don't value truth.
Show where I said that.
Do you know who the father of lies is?

Yes the father of lies is the one who tells you your lies.


The Bible says plainly that he came from heaven.

You claim Jesus was a man in Heaven before He came to earth.

It was the Word of God which came down from Heaven.



By the way, your tongue speaking and prophecies are bad copy cats of the real thing.

BTW you are of the devil who hates every Christian who believes Gods word--

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

LA
 
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