The Trinity

[glorydaz]

Show that we can continue in knowing sin and be safe?

You cannot; not with any intellectual honesty.

Those who trust in the Lord Jesus Christ are already hid with Christ in God. This is the foundation on which we rest. All things are lawful for us, but not all things are expedient. Those things which are not expedient are the wood and stubble.

1 Cor. 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.​

Do you see how much you all fret over "knowing sin"? You worry about others as you continue to ignore the stubble in your own life. You have no assurance of salvation, and are angry at those of us who do. I have no idea what you imagine the sins are that I'm "committing", but it's obviously consuming you. This is exactly why our Lord died for all sin....so that we could live our lives free of the fear of death that sin brings. You people just cannot bring yourselves to trust in Christ's work on the cross. It's a shame.

 

[Veritas veritate]

As we have discussed previously the those things are in relation to Melchizedek, the only attribute that Jesus and Melchizedek share are that they are both high priest for all time. To claim that all those things ascribed to Melchizedek also relate to Jesus is reading your thoughts into the text.

They can't both be high priest for all time. There is only one high priest at a time... either they are the same high priest for all time, or neither are high priest for all time.


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[Rosenritter]

I am sorry to hear that, I will be praying for your health.

I'm mostly recovered now, thanks.

Spoiler

That is exactly my point. There is no way that one can truly come into the full knowledge of Jesus Christ and then completely turn away from him. They can be seduced by the world, enticed by sin, alienated from God in their own minds, but there is nothing that anyone can do to remove the sealing of the Holy Spirit. We are bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus Christ and He will redeem that which he paid for.

Here is an honest question to think upon. When was deliverance (salvation) given? It was given to all when Jesus Christ finished his work (when he placed his own blood on the mercy seat in heaven). When was preservation (salvation) given? It was given when we, through faith, accepted and acknowledged the truth of our deliverance (salvation) having been given to us.

The deliverance (salvation) cannot and will not change for anyone who has ever lived: however, the preservation (salvation), though it cannot be lost, can be, and is enhanced or reduced according to the fruits we produce.

Can you remove the blood of Christ from the mercy seat in heaven? Just as the covenant of Abraham was predicated on the faithfulness of God alone, so too is the salvation that we have been given in Christ predicated on the work of Christ alone. Remember, the New Covenant was based on his blood, not our obedience. Man was never given the responsibility of salvation. The only thing our obedience predicates is the amount of the inheritance we get when we enter New Jerusalem.

There are a couple of things that I will point out here that might make more sense out of what I am saying. Look at verse seven: "parched ground" is referring to those who have turned away. Notice how there are two groups within the "parched ground." One produces herbs (carrots and corn in the Message), and one produces thistles. The ones that produce herbs are those who were true believers and have a restored relationship. The second are those who have never had a relationship, but seem to have a form of the truth: these are those whom the enemy has planted among the wheat. These are those who attempt to choke out and turn away true believers, and they will be burned.

OK, I'll sum up what I read above as "Once Saved Always Saved" ... which is incorrect, and dangerous. Yes, it is possible to fall away. Christ's blood has paid for everyone's sins, it does not mean that all will be saved. If faith and belief turned from and rejected still ends up with salvation, what type of nonsense would that yield? The DEVIL HIMSELF once was perfect, and he rejected God. Why would you or I be granted salvation if we choose that same path of the devil?

I think this parable is applicable to this point:

Mat 18:23-35
(23) Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
(24) And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
(25) But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
(26) The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
(27) Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
(28) But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
(29) And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
(30) And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
(31) So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
(32) Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
(33) Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
(34) And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
(35) So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.


The lesson? Forgiveness for sins was granted, and then later revoked. We don't "own" God or have him over a barrel, locked into a phone contract that he can't break out of if we decide that we don't want him to rule over us any longer.

 

[glorydaz]

I'm mostly recovered now, thanks.

Spoiler

OK, I'll sum up what I read above as "Once Saved Always Saved" ... which is incorrect, and dangerous. Yes, it is possible to fall away. Christ's blood has paid for everyone's sins, it does not mean that all will be saved. If faith and belief turned from and rejected still ends up with salvation, what type of nonsense would that yield? The DEVIL HIMSELF once was perfect, and he rejected God. Why would you or I be granted salvation if we choose that same path of the devil?

I think this parable is applicable to this point:

Mat 18:23-35
(23) Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
(24) And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
(25) But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
(26) The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
(27) Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
(28) But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
(29) And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
(30) And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
(31) So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
(32) Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
(33) Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
(34) And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
(35) So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.


The lesson? Forgiveness for sins was granted, and then later revoked. We don't "own" God or have him over a barrel, locked into a phone contract that he can't break out of if we decide that we don't want him to rule over us any longer.

The lesson....the law is conditional and salvation is a gift. If you have no assurance of salvation, you are still under the law. :nono:

 

[Lon]

Just believe the scriptures.

No, you mean 'just believe me.' Most of us understand them better than you do. You should 'read' the scriptures more often than you do.

 

[Lon]

Show that GOD is 3 people with scripture please.

I'll wait.

1 John 5:7 Matthew 28:19

...using a Trinity lense and others explanations as opposed to what is plainly stated?

:nono: John 1:1 John 20:28 Titus 2:13 Acts 20:28 There are lots, and they are clear. No Baptist is an arian or Unitarian.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I'm mostly recovered now, thanks.

Spoiler

OK, I'll sum up what I read above as "Once Saved Always Saved" ... which is incorrect, and dangerous. Yes, it is possible to fall away. Christ's blood has paid for everyone's sins, it does not mean that all will be saved. If faith and belief turned from and rejected still ends up with salvation, what type of nonsense would that yield? The DEVIL HIMSELF once was perfect, and he rejected God. Why would you or I be granted salvation if we choose that same path of the devil?

I think this parable is applicable to this point:

Mat 18:23-35
(23) Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
(24) And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
(25) But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
(26) The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
(27) Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
(28) But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
(29) And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
(30) And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
(31) So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
(32) Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
(33) Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
(34) And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
(35) So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.


The lesson? Forgiveness for sins was granted, and then later revoked. We don't "own" God or have him over a barrel, locked into a phone contract that he can't break out of if we decide that we don't want him to rule over us any longer.

You apparently haven't read any of Paul's works...

 

[JudgeRightly]

1 John 5:7 Matthew 28:19

Don't forget (at least, I think it's relevant) Genesis 48:15-16.

 

[KingdomRose]

Is Jesus like a little god then? Is He a smaller version of the Father, stuck in a body?

You people are being silly. Does someone have to spoon-feed you with simple words to help you to see what is being explained? A god was understood in the first century to mean a powerful, important, high official....such as judges, governors, kings, and even the angels (and Satan; 2Corinthians 4:4). Jesus was certainly powerful and important, and God's appointed future King. How can you not get that through your head?

 

[KingdomRose]

Perfect sense if you allow for everything that Jesus said to fall into place, without being so anxious to deny the obvious implications

You must have a mental block here. Jesus declared himself God, and THAT'S why they wanted to stone him. Did you miss that part?

I think NWL has been trying to point out that Jesus REFUTED their charge that he claimed to be God. He did no such thing as claim to be God. He reminded them that even human JUDGES were thought of as "gods," so why were they seeking to stone him when he claimed to be the Son of God? Did you miss THAT part? He never claimed to be what they tried to say he did. They were seeking to pin something on him that would get him in trouble, so they ACCUSED him of claiming to be God.

Hey, just because the Jews said it, did that make it true? They said he claimed to be God....was that really true? No. If it was true, just because they said it, then were they correct when they accused Jesus of getting his power from the Devil? "In answer the Jews said to him: 'Do we not rightly say, you are a Samaritan and have a demon?'" (John 8:48)If we follow your line of reasoning, then that must be true also! The Jews said a lot of things about him that were not true.

 

[KingdomRose]

If you really, truly, honestly want to know as you say, you can start here if you so desire: http://answering-islam.org/Who/index.html

If YOU really really want to know truth, start here, if you desire: Link killed.

 

[Lon]

Does someone have to spoon-feed you with simple words to help you to see what is being explained? A god was understood in the first century to mean a powerful, important, high official....such as judges, governors, kings, and even the angels (and Satan; 2Corinthians 4:4) How can you not get that through your head?

Psalm 96:5 1 Corinthians 8:4 Jeremiah 2:11 :think:

 

[KingdomRose]

John 1:1-3 KJV - John 1:14 KJV -

Patrick, you're going to have to do more than just cite a couple of scriptures with no comment. John 1:1-14 has been discussed time and time again, and there is much evidence that "and the word was god" with a capital "G" is not the correct rendering, if we want to stay true to the rules for translating Greek into English. You should really research those rules. Greek has no indefinite article, so English translators have to add one where there is no definite article. (Greek does have definite articles.) A little complicated for you, dearie?

 

[KingdomRose]

God = Father, Son, Spirit.

Godhead = Father, Son, Spirit.


Don't remove the equal sign or you'll get mixed up.

You are contradicting Jesus, GD. He said that God = only the Father (John 17:3; John 20:17).


It seems that you are the one who is mixed up.

 

[KingdomRose]

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

It has been explained to you that I John 5:7 is not in early manuscripts, but was inserted much later by nefarious clergy and/or copyists. It doesn't bother you to keep perpetuating falsehood?

 

[popsthebuilder]

We see from the following texts that it is not outside of the capacities of GOD to manifest in the form of man.

We also see that GOD is too Spirit at the same time, as the "men" head off towards Sodom, Abraham stays put, and yet draws even closer to GOD, boldly asking of GOD; that HE might spare the city for but a few good souls that reside therein.
Genesis: 18. 1. And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2. And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, 3. And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: 4. Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: 5. And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said. 6. And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth. 7. And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it. 8. And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat. 16. And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way. 19. For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. 20. And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 21. I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. 22. And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. 23. And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

These verses definitely do not limit GOD to the created temple, or even the physical temple of standard birth; as these three men manifest in front of Abraham. There is more in just these verses with references to the Christ/ Spirit of GOD, but I'm going to look for more that have to do with three.




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[glorydaz]

You people are being silly. Does someone have to spoon-feed you with simple words to help you to see what is being explained? A god was understood in the first century to mean a powerful, important, high official....such as judges, governors, kings, and even the angels (and Satan; 2Corinthians 4:4). Jesus was certainly powerful and important, and God's appointed future King. How can you not get that through your head?

It's a matter of the heart.....you've allowed your head to follow after some very foolish doctrine.

 

[glorydaz]

It has been explained to you that I John 5:7 is not in early manuscripts, but was inserted much later by nefarious clergy and/or copyists. It doesn't bother you to keep perpetuating falsehood?

So the story goes by those who oppose the deity of Christ. :chuckle:
It is, in fact, in the earliest manuscripts.

What doesn't bother me is calling out heathenistic cultish members such as yourself.

Begone, you child of satan. We see clearly who you are.

 

[Nihilo]

The lesson? Forgiveness for sins was granted, and then later revoked. We don't "own" God or have him over a barrel, locked into a phone contract that he can't break out of if we decide that we don't want him to rule over us any longer.

Consider the two types of penalties incurred by sins. Eternal, and temporal. If we were forgiven the eternal consequences of our sins, why would we pray, "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us?" unless we are asking for temporal indulgences, and also promising to grant them to others. :idunno: :chew:

 

[Rosenritter]

Show that GOD is 3 people with scripture please.

I'll wait.

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Hebrews 1:1-3 KJV
(1) God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
(2) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
(3) Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

See? It says right there, that the Son is the express image of the three persons of God. Persons, plural, and three of them it says. Oh, wait, actually it's singular, isn't it...

Anyone have another scripture that uses the word person or persons in relation to God?