The Trinity

[lifeisgood]

Give the scripture where Jesus commands all to do that.

You can't give that scripture because it doesn't exist, but you don't care about the truth.

Oh, foolish one. You, gt, boastfully say you OBEY ALL Jesus' commandments, exactly, and literally.

 

[God's Truth]

Continue to believe Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary, which is what brings the Holy Spirit to guide you.

I know you will reject Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary to SAVE YOU and TO KEEP YOU SAVED.

Jesus didn't come to earth and do all that teaching for it to be nullified by Paul. By the way, how dare you accuse Paul of such a thing.

 

[lifeisgood]

Jesus didn't come to earth and do all that teaching for it to be nullified by Paul. By the way, how dare you accuse Paul of such a thing.

Oh, c'mon gt. Paul received revelation from the RISEN LORD HIMSELF.

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus says not to murder.

I believe that yet I still murder.

What good is believing?

Those are words only a false believer can utter. :e4e:

HAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!

Okay then, now we can get deeper. Tell me, what made the difference between a false believer and a true believer? LOLLOLLOL

You have been caught in your craftiness.

According to you, the false believe did NOT obey.

Just look at that cackling! God's UNtruth is sounding more demented by the day.

No, GuT, According to me, YOU are a false believer...thus the evil surmises that flow so trippingly off your tongue.:devil:

 

[popsthebuilder]

Has anyone noticed which camp is accusing the other of denying the work of Christ? It is those who seem to deny the teachings there of and the effectiveness of faith to change a person, ironically. Not sure if they are all traditional trinitarians or not though.

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[God's Truth]

Oh, foolish one. You, gt, boastfully say you OBEY ALL Jesus' commandments, exactly, and literally.

What do you think I don't have to do? Why won't you answer that question?

 

[Rosenritter]

You can't be serious? I'm adding to the text!???? I'm using Jesus very own words!

No, you're not. You're trying to make it say that Jesus denied being God, and this is the furthest form the truth. When Jesus says "for what good work do you stone me?" that is clearly a rhetorical question, not a statement that he is being stoned for a good work. Neither does he state that the Son of God is anything less than God. That, you see, is a created assumption that is found in a JW doctrinal statement, not the biblical text itself.

From the KJV itself, as it was before: "..Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" (John 10:32-36)

Please answer the question, did Jesus say that they were stoning him and I quote, "because [he] said, I am the Son of God?", did Jesus say that or did he not?

[/QUOTE]
Yes, he did. The Jews said they were stoning him because he made himself equal to God. Jesus said that they said he blasphemed because he said he was the Son of God. These statements do not stand in disagreement, nor did the Jews seem to think there was any difference. It's only the Jehovah's Witness (and other Unitarians) that say there is a difference, not the Jews of Christ's audience.

Remember the context directly before and after Jesus comment of "are you not gods" was regarding the accusation of blasphemy, your explanation separates Jesus words from the context with you making Jesus comments a separate statement unrelated to the accusation the Jews were imposing, the context shows Jesus answer was in relation to what they were accusing him of. You need to explain how what Jesus said "are you not gods" makes sense in relation to what the Jews said "you make yourself God"

Here it is again, the Jews accused Jesus "You Jesus make yourself God", Jesus answered "are you not [corrupt] gods". Jesus was answering them, how would Jesus answer be answering them if he was simply calling them corrupt gods?

You keep evading this over and over. Jesus was not simply calling them corrupt judges. Having already identified himself as the judge over all the world, that he should arise and inherit all nations, he likewise identifies himself as the God that judges among the gods. You see, God himself is immune to charges of blasphemy. If you cannot see how that answers a charge of blasphemy then your compass needs checking.

1. Where did Jesus state in John 10 that he was the God that judges among the gods? This is an assumption.
2. What does this have to do with anything?
3. What does this have to do with anything?

How many judges of the quick and the dead are there NWL? John 5:22-27 is already stated and on the record by the time we get to John 10. All judgment is given unto the son, the father judges no man, he says. So who is it that judges among the gods? The Psalm and Jesus agree that it is Jesus. A = B, B = C, therefore A = C.

What does this have to do with anything? Jesus is LORD and Christ.
What does this have to do with anything? The JW doctrine is wrong in this regard.

To the contrary. If for arguments sake Jesus was a little god or secondary god to Almighty God Jehovah, if the Jews said to Jesus "we are stoning for blasphemy because you make yourself a god" and Jesus said "are you not gods" would Jesus comparing himself to them as being "little gods" just like them be a good defence for an accusation of blasphemy if Jesus was NOT God but a god?

What the heck are you talking about? Jesus is not a "little god" anyplace but JW doctrine. Yes, if we assume "little god" then it would have pacified the Jews, wouldn't it? Except the text shows us that it only angered them more, and they continued the process of stoning for blasphemy.

To quote a man, extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence, to claim Jesus is God or any person is God for that matter is quite a claim to make. Jesus stating that he is the Son of God is nowhere near as serious as claiming to be God, the two simply are not comparable. The funny thing is, when Jesus asked the disciples who they thought he was their response was NOT that he was God, but rather, that he was the Son of God, so I fail to see how this supports your understanding when in fact, it support mine, that Jesus is the Son of God and NOT God himself.

When you don't accept the extraordinary evidence of scripture, the only thing left is his appearance and his coming.

 

[glorydaz]

I can't help your bias and preconceptions; all I can do is explain to the best of my ability.

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My "bias and preconceptions"? That's one way to blame your lack of knowledge on those who are hoping you will move past the schoolmaster. Have you ever considered that your own bias and preconceptions are what holds you back from understanding God's way more perfectly?

 

[glorydaz]

What do you think I don't have to do? Why won't you answer that question?

Do you elevate others above yourself?

 

[God's Truth]

Paul is a sensitive subject, which I agree with you on- people treating him as if he's less of an apositle..

Some people hate Paul and some people say he taught another gospel. Both beliefs about Paul are wrong.

 

[God's Truth]

Do you elevate others above yourself?

I wouldn't be trying so hard to help you if I didn't think much of you.

 

[popsthebuilder]

My "bias and preconceptions"? That's one way to blame your lack of knowledge on those who are hoping you will move past the schoolmaster. Have you ever considered that your own bias and preconceptions are what holds you back from understanding God's way more perfectly?

Very often, yes.

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[glorydaz]

Has anyone noticed which camp is accusing the other of denying the work of Christ? It is those who seem to deny the teachings there of and the effectiveness of faith to change a person, ironically. Not sure if they are all traditional trinitarians or not though.

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The work of Christ? Like this, you mean?

Romans 8:3-4 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.​

What I see is GT's camp (apparently including you, pops) claiming obedience to the law can be fulfilled by them.....in total contrast to what actually occurred. "Fulfilled IN US"....not by us.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Ayo, who are you to tell anybody their sacred beliefs? Do you mean to speak for Paul right now, because the Bible of many versions speaks for Paul

And the fact that he preached the same gospel


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[marhig]

So you really think the deciding factor to all souls spending eternity in torture beyond imagination is based on if they "believe" Jesus of Nazareth was the eternal GOD in the flesh who killed himself as a payment for himself so you could continue in knowing sin?

It has nothing to do with ones actions, motives, intent, or deed? Just believe Jesus is the eternal GOD even though He expressly said otherwise.

Yeah, you're right on track.

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Great post

 

[popsthebuilder]

The work of Christ? Like this, you mean?

Romans 8:3-4 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.​

What I see is GT's camp (apparently including you, pops) claiming obedience to the law can be fulfilled by them.....in total contrast to what actually occurred. "Fulfilled IN US"....not by us.

I never said that.

The law of GOD is written on the minds and hearts of the believer.

Is it safer to say that we as believers with the law written in our very heart are to ignore it or follow it?

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[God's Truth]

Just look at that cackling! God's UNtruth is sounding more demented by the day.

No, GuT, According to me, YOU are a false believer...thus the evil surmises that flow so trippingly off your tongue.:devil:

According to you, the false believers don't obey. Let's talk about that instead of your insults.

 

[glorydaz]

Very often, yes.

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Well, then let go of that unteachable spirit, and stop seeing bias in others that doesn't exist.

Don't follow blindly after false teachers like GT. It's a matter of pride to refuse to listen...as GT does. She considers herself to be a great teacher, but she changes like the wind. Calling Jesus the Father should be a big clue. :think:

 

[popsthebuilder]

Paul taught a very Trinitarian gospel

I'm sorry.... Do you think the trinitarian perspective is a prerequisite for salvation?

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[God's Truth]

Paul taught a very Trinitarian gospel

The trinitarian doctrine came years later from the Catholics.