genuineoriginal
New member
That is a statement?
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
That is a statement?
:chuckle:
'Just thought it'd be nice if folks wanted to compare your definition of the Most Holy & Most Blessed & Undivided Trinity, with what the actual Church of our Lord Jesus Christ actually teaches and defines (ibid).
iamaberean
New member
God has many more names than just three, so if we feel that a name (title) of God means another God, then we need to add the other Gods to our list.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/names-of-god.htm
journey
New member
If you're a Berean, you should already know that Almighty God is a Holy Trinity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit - yet the three are one.
iamaberean
New member
As a berean for something to be true, all scriptures must agree.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
So, that is pretty plain, but now I have a problem with this scripture.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
So baptizing them in the titles would not be the same as baptizing them in their name.
What is their name?
You see what I mean? Trinity is confusing!
journey
New member
No, I don't see what you mean. I'm not confused at all.
Are you saying that you're having trouble deciding that God the Son is Jesus Christ and The Word?
iamaberean
New member
Maybe, but I am confused on how should one be baptized? Jesus told his disciples to baptize in the 'name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost".
Then, Peter said "be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ".
Since that is confusing to me, one or the other has to be wrong. Which is it?
journey
New member
This is the Age of Grace and we are saved by the Gospel of the Grace of God. We are no longer under the law. Water baptism was a Jewish purification ritual. There is now one baptism, and it isn't with water - rather the Holy Spirit. You shouldn't let instructions to the Jews confuse you. Jesus Christ willingly went to the Cross for big reasons, and you can read what those reasons were in the writings of the Apostle Paul.
Ephesians 4:4-6 KJV There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
iamaberean
New member
I agree with the fact we are not under the law and I commend you for pointing that out. So by your own words we can eliminate baptizem in the titles of God, right?
So are you also saying then that baptism in the titles are not practiced by the trinitarian churches today and also that baptism in water is not mentioned in the epistles?
I am sure you see how confusing trinity is by now.
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genuineoriginal
New member
You don't even know what the actual ekklesia of the Lord Jesus the Messiah is?:chuckle:
'Just thought it'd be nice if folks wanted to compare your definition of the Most Holy & Most Blessed & Undivided Trinity, with what the actual Church of our Lord Jesus Christ actually teaches and defines (ibid).
Here is a hint:
It is not found in the Vatican's teachings.
KingdomRose
New member
:chuckle:
'Just thought it'd be nice if folks wanted to compare your definition of the Most Holy & Most Blessed & Undivided Trinity, with what the actual Church of our Lord Jesus Christ actually teaches and defines (ibid).
The RCC's idea of the Trinity is purely TRADITION, and doesn't agree with what the Scriptures say. If we were to listen to Jesus, we'd become aware that the big, influential church that claims to be following him just might not be his church! (Matthew 7:13-23) Read those verses and tell me if you think that's possible. What if that church is not "the actual church of our Lord Jesus Christ"?
The Trinity teaching is blasphemous and insulting to God, the Father. Jesus said he was God's SON, not God, and he called the Father "my God." If God = the Father, how can anybody ELSE be God?
John 20:17; Revelation (Apocalypse) 3:12
St. Paul said: "For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven of on earth, just as there are many 'gods' and many 'lords,' there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him..." (I Corinthians 8:5,6)
And: "I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God." (God,Who we know to be the Father, YHWH) I Corinthians 11:3.
The RCC has said that TRADITION overpowers Scripture. It doesn't matter what the Bible says about God. Tradition will trump it. The RCC knows that the Trinity isn't taught in the Bible. Check it out in The New Catholic Encyclopedia.
It does too agree.
I lived most of my life believing that. It's simply false.
No it's not.
Our Maker became a man. Matthew 1:23
Nope.
False.
You still haven't provided the link so that we can all see what you're talking about.
KingdomRose
New member
(To Imaberean) God does not have "more names than just three"! He has, actually, ONE name....JEHOVAH (YHWH). What does your King James Version say at PSALM 83:18? All those other "names" that you speak about are not God's personal name, but are either TITLES or names of places dedicated to Jehovah. He has one name, and it appears as (YHWH) through the Bible, 7,000 times.
genuineoriginal
New member
_____
THE CORRECT MEANING OF "ECCLESIA"
Now, let's look at the word, "ecclesia". This Greek word appears in the New Testament approximately 115 times. That's just in this one grammatical form. It appears also in other forms. And in every instance, except three, it is wrongly translated as "church" in the King James Version. Those three exceptions are found in Acts 19:32, 39, 41. In these instances the translators rendered it "assembly" instead of "church." But, the Greek word is exactly the same as the other 112 entries where it was changed to "church" wrongly.
In Acts 19, "ecclesia" is a town council: a civil body in Ephesus. Thus, the translators were forced to abandon their fake translation in these three instances. Nonetheless, 112 times they changed it to "church." This fact has been covered-up under centuries of misuse and ignorance. The Greek word "ecclesia" is correctly defined as: "The called-out (ones)" [ECC = out; KALEO = call]. Thus, you can see how this word was used to indicate a civil body of select (called, elected) people.
According to the Encyclopedia Britannica:
In the New Testament, "ecclesia" (signifying convocation) is the only single word used for church. It (ecclesia) was the name given to the governmental assembly of the city of Athens, duly convoked (called out) by proper officers and possessing all political power including even juridical functions.
Obviously, in Greece an ecclesia had no resemblance to a church. An "ecclesia" was a civil assembly in Athens even before the writing of the New Testament. In the Oxford Universal English Dictionary (considered the standard for the English language) the word "ecclesia" is listed in its English form as used by our English forefathers. (Nowadays, only forms of the word appear - like, "ecclesiastical").
Quoting from the Oxford Universal English Dictionary on the word "ecclesia":
Ecclesia [mediaeval Latin, and Greek - from : SUMMONED] -A regularly convoked assembly, especially the general assembly of Athenians. Later, the regular word for church.
Thus, two of the most prestigious word resources in the English language confirm the fact that an "ecclesia" was originally a select civil body, summoned or convoked for a particular purpose. What, then, did the writers of the New Testament mean when they used the word "ecclesia" to describe a Christian body of people? We can assume that they intended to convey the original Greek meaning of the word: a body of Christians called out of the Roman and Judean system to come together into a separate civil community. It meant a politically autonomous body of Christians under no king but Jesus; under no other jurisdiction but that of Jesus. No man ruled them! Only Christ. And that was the reason these same Christians ran into trouble with kings and rulers; were arrested, crucified and martyred. They dropped Caesar as their King and took up Christ.
_____
THE CORRECT MEANING OF "ECCLESIA"
Now, let's look at the word, "ecclesia". This Greek word appears in the New Testament approximately 115 times. That's just in this one grammatical form. It appears also in other forms. And in every instance, except three, it is wrongly translated as "church" in the King James Version. Those three exceptions are found in Acts 19:32, 39, 41. In these instances the translators rendered it "assembly" instead of "church." But, the Greek word is exactly the same as the other 112 entries where it was changed to "church" wrongly.
In Acts 19, "ecclesia" is a town council: a civil body in Ephesus. Thus, the translators were forced to abandon their fake translation in these three instances. Nonetheless, 112 times they changed it to "church." This fact has been covered-up under centuries of misuse and ignorance. The Greek word "ecclesia" is correctly defined as: "The called-out (ones)" [ECC = out; KALEO = call]. Thus, you can see how this word was used to indicate a civil body of select (called, elected) people.
According to the Encyclopedia Britannica:
In the New Testament, "ecclesia" (signifying convocation) is the only single word used for church. It (ecclesia) was the name given to the governmental assembly of the city of Athens, duly convoked (called out) by proper officers and possessing all political power including even juridical functions.
Obviously, in Greece an ecclesia had no resemblance to a church. An "ecclesia" was a civil assembly in Athens even before the writing of the New Testament. In the Oxford Universal English Dictionary (considered the standard for the English language) the word "ecclesia" is listed in its English form as used by our English forefathers. (Nowadays, only forms of the word appear - like, "ecclesiastical").
Quoting from the Oxford Universal English Dictionary on the word "ecclesia":
Ecclesia [mediaeval Latin, and Greek - from : SUMMONED] -A regularly convoked assembly, especially the general assembly of Athenians. Later, the regular word for church.
Thus, two of the most prestigious word resources in the English language confirm the fact that an "ecclesia" was originally a select civil body, summoned or convoked for a particular purpose. What, then, did the writers of the New Testament mean when they used the word "ecclesia" to describe a Christian body of people? We can assume that they intended to convey the original Greek meaning of the word: a body of Christians called out of the Roman and Judean system to come together into a separate civil community. It meant a politically autonomous body of Christians under no king but Jesus; under no other jurisdiction but that of Jesus. No man ruled them! Only Christ. And that was the reason these same Christians ran into trouble with kings and rulers; were arrested, crucified and martyred. They dropped Caesar as their King and took up Christ.
_____
iamaberean
New member
That is correct, I was trying to make a point to trinitarians that Father, Son and Holy Ghost are not names of God and my response in trying to clarify this was:
Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
God has many more names than just three, so if we feel that a name (title) of God means another God, then we need to add the other Gods to our list.
As you can see I used names and titles. This is because Jesus told his disciples to baptize in the the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost. Trinitarians use the titles to baptize even though they should know the name is 'Jesus'.
They are the ones confused!
iamaberean
New member
The word trinity is not even in the bible.
The early church father Tertullian (c. 155-230), who wrote in Latin, is believed to have first used the term trinity to describe the God of the Bible.
The entire bible professes one God. Ask a Jew how many Gods, and they will tell you there are many gods but only one LORD God.
If we Christians claim to worship the same God as the Jews, as I do, then start reading the scriptures with understanding.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
'Trinity' is deduced from the scriptures- pretty much, if you don't see it then you are simply inept or in rebellion against what the prophets and apostles reveal. The word doesn't need to be in there, if you don't believe Jesus is God than you are a Muslim- that's just simple fact home skillet. Call him Deity or prophet, but do not be so vain as to presume Jesus as an angel or some demigod, you fool.
He did not leave that option_
He did not leave that option_
iamaberean
New member
Pretty much?
We don't need to presume anything. Look again at the scripture I listed.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
This scripture means that Jesus is God! The same God the Jews served.
Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
The fundamental problem with those who do not accept the Trinity is that they fail to know who Jesus intrinsically was, in holy essence, at his conception