The Trinity

[NWL]

I showed you the scriptures, you made no mention of them, they clearly show that obedience to Gods T&C's are needed in order to receive the free gift, JUST like a modern day free prize draw.

Since you clearly deny scripture can you answer simple some simple questions.

According to Hebrews 5:9 is Jesus responsible for the handing out the free gift of eternal life only to people who obey him?

(Hebrews 5:9) "..And after he had been made perfect, he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him.."

Regarding the commission to preach(Matt 28:19 and obedience coming into play) we have Romans 10:10 which reads "For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation". Do we need to publicly declare Jesus for salvation according to Romans 10:10?

According to Matt 7:21 will those who DO NOT do the will of God enter in the Kingdom? “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. (Matthew 7:21)

Or inclined. You are no poodle-trainer, I'm no poodle. Hoops aren't my thing. If I ever decide to address your scriptures, I'll do so upon my own initiative and interest. :e4e:

You may not be a poodle, but you sure know how to run away with your tail in between your legs like one :dog:

You aren't the first person, nor will you be the last person who will refuse to answer questions giving a lame excuses as to why.

In what way am I treating you like an animal and making you jump through hoops by asking you to answer questions?? Jesus himself, a man who according to you, I would think, shouldn't need to ask a single question since he knows all things, used questions as a main tool in his ministry! So how is me asking you simple questions making you jump through hoops?

To me, and I'm sure others, it seems like you know you can neither accept nor deny the questions I ask, hence the need to run from me.
Wipe your feet on the way out. :wave: :cigar:

 

[Lon]

So you say "Yes, the three are One, One means the same" - That sounds like what GT was saying. If that's what you meant, the only issue is that you call it Trinity and she does not. Sounds like semantics.

In a sense, but Modalists believe Jesus was the Father. IOW, they see one God playing 3 roles, as it were. The Son talking to the Father in prayer, according to Modalists, was more for teaching purposes. From what I can tell, you are a sort of Modalist/Triune hybrid, which, I think makes you triune by default.... :think:

 

[popsthebuilder]

Yes,....the whole Arian Controversy just shows all the theological, socio-political battles going on within the church-state of the times, to where Arians were after some long struggle in the ranks of power, eventually in the tug-o-war over-ruled by the Trinitarians and the leverage of time and power later became in their 'favor' to win the day to be established as 'orthodox'. All this over Arius statement that "there was a time when the Son was not". - so along comes the "eternally begotten" concept and other supports to keep the Trinity Train going along

The Reality of 'Deity' simply and profoundly is that WHICH IS,...omnipresent, NOW. - all else are but concepts, points of view, opinions and assumptions.

I do agree that all is of GOD and that GOD encompasses all and is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. But if we aren't careful then this too can lead to great misdirection. What is to be kept in mind is that all things within a thing can never enclose the thing that encompasses them. (this reference refers to rigid things that are without change such as pottery or vases. Oddly enough, it too speaks of GOD in some way as GOD is without change)yet another controversial topic.



We may be getting a little off-topic here but it is interesting. Perhaps someone could make a thread about how vessels can be filled past the point where they flow over and yet never hold the fullness of the substance which fills them.

Philosophy is pretty interesting to me of late, I must admit.

peace

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[Lon]

You may not be a poodle, but you sure know how to run away with your tail in between your legs like one :dog:

You aren't the first person, nor will you be the last person who will refuse to answer questions giving a lame excuses as to why.

An attempt to make me jump through the hoop. "No." or "Not now" and then the attempt at public shaming :chuckle: Is a treat next? How many ways will you attempt to make me your little poodle? :chuckle: I'm not necessarily your huckleberry. Maybe one day, if I'm feeling like being ingratiating. When I do so, it will be upon my terms and my decision. No 'shaming' or 'challenge' makes me want to look in the first place. Ecclesiastes 1:9 Did you think your scriptures and argument were novel? :think:
On top of that, thread derailing. Your scriptures and questions are about Salvation and obedience. This thread isn't about that. I tend to stay on topic, which is 'why' I didn't address you. There are already 'works' threads on TOL. Find one. Someone if not me, will respond in a thread about that topic.

In what way am I treating you like an animal and making you jump through hoops by asking you to answer questions?? Jesus himself, a man who according to you, I would think, shouldn't need to ask a single question since he knows all things, used questions as a main tool in his ministry! So how is me asking you simple questions making you jump through hoops?

You are being dishonest:

I showed you the scriptures, you made no mention of them...

Since you clearly deny scripture....

I'll wait and see if you're capable of answering what I asked. Then I'll get my time to laugh .

And even here, in your very next breath/sentence:

To me, and I'm sure others, it seems like you know you can neither accept nor deny the questions I ask, hence the need to run from me.

You never did ask, and certainly not as polite company.

Wipe your feet on the way out. :wave: :cigar:

"My" house. Nice try. When I come to a JW Hall, you can be impolite THEN.

 

[Saxon Hammer]

Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit.

Jesus' Spirit was a Holy Spirit.

 

[Rosenritter]

...

 

[popsthebuilder]

Jesus' Spirit was a Holy Spirit.

If you deny the resurrection of the Christ of GOD then your faith lacks substance.

It was the resurrection of His SPIRIT that was for our death to sin, as it was his death and crucifixion that brought many the SPIRIT of life and spread the message around the world.

peace

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[God's Truth]

I can fully explain my reasoning and it makes sense. You can't even defend your own understanding of the scriptures. I've asked you questions and you didn't even attempt to answer them.

I defend my beliefs. I answer your questions, you are the one who does not.

Here they are again. Let's see if your reasoning makes sense.

In 1 Cor 15:24 it has Jesus, some time after his ascension, handing back the kingdom to the Father, how is that possible if he himself is the Father?

I already answered that. Learn how to scroll back and double check to see if you missed any posts.

 

[God's Truth]

You don't agree.... on disagreeing.

There are no absolutes. Are you absolutely sure?

If you don't get it, you need to take a step back from TOL for a couple hours until you feel more relaxed.

Maybe you should step away.

We are in a debate group. If I merely agreed to simply disagree---then why discuss anything?

Do you think your rude demeanor means anything special?

 

[God's Truth]

You try so hard and fail so miserably.

Your opinion means what?

 

[God's Truth]

Yes. A proclamation of the Trinity.

No there are not three different making one whole.

 

[God's Truth]

In a sense, but Modalists believe Jesus was the Father. IOW, they see one God playing 3 roles, as it were. The Son talking to the Father in prayer, according to Modalists, was more for teaching purposes. From what I can tell, you are a sort of Modalist/Triune hybrid, which, I think makes you triune by default.... :think:

I am not a modalist, but Jesus talked to God the Father because Jesus is a Man and to whom else should he speak to?

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus' Spirit was a Holy Spirit.

Jesus' Spirit IS the Holy Spirit.

There is only one Spirit.

The Lord is the Spirit.

 

[Rosenritter]

GT, relax a little. You're taking offense where none is intended.

Maybe you should step away.

We are in a debate group. If I merely agreed to simply disagree---then why discuss anything?

Do you think your rude demeanor means anything special?

 

[God's Truth]

GT, relax a little. You're taking offense where none is intended.

Stop talking about me personally. Keep to the speaking of doctrines and not what you think about me.

 

[marhig]

He returned to the FATHER upon resurrection. Lord and GOD are synonymous in regards to spirit though the Lord was a mortal in physical form, and wasn't equal to GOD while in the flesh. His human vessel overran with the Spirit of GOD in that physical manifestation. That same spirit was of GOD ND returned to GOD.

GOD alone is judge, but scripture says Christ is judge donut stands to reason that they are the she in spirit.

Does that make sense?

An attempt at explaining. Please do bring up any discrepancies

peace dear friend

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Hi pops,

Our Lord Jesus returned to the father when he died, as he said, into your hands I commend my Spirit. So at the point of death he went straight to God, and he took the thief with him.

Yes God is our judge, but Jesus says that his judgement is just, and why is that? Because he only spoke what the Father gave him to speak so he judged by the word of God. His words are Spirit and they are life and they come from the father of lights, the Almighty God.

And Christ has the same heart, mind and nature as the father, but he is still under subjection to the father and it is the father who has exalted Christ Jesus and set him at his right hand, and the head of Christ is God. So the father is the head of all including Christ.

Peace to you too my friend

 

[Saxon Hammer]

If you deny the resurrection of the Christ of GOD then your faith lacks substance.

It was the resurrection of His SPIRIT that was for our death to sin, as it was his death and crucifixion that brought many the SPIRIT of life and spread the message around the world.

peace

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I have enough faith to cope with your anxiety.

Jesus was a great MAN and the rest is rhetoric produced by men long dead.

The parables and saying of Jesus have been EDITED and TRANSLATED and AMENDED by men long dead.

'God' is and always will be.

From God we come, to God we go, we witness this the creation of God.

This is the ministry of God, all around and within us.


All the best, Sax

 

[Saxon Hammer]

Jesus' Spirit IS the Holy Spirit.

There is only one Spirit.

The Lord is the Spirit.

Those are your words.

Jesus was a man with a 'holy spirit', he did what he could and was martyred by the Roman legal system and publicly crucified. His words where recorded in the 'minds' of the people and these where collected some 300 years later and compiled into the words you have no doubt read. Your faith has been derived from these words and your requirement is I HAVE to be faithless because I object to your words.

My faith has arrived totally unexpectedly, as I would have said, no more than a year ago, that 'reality' denies the existence of 'God'.

This is the ministry of God, all around and within us.

To me this is ALL the faith I need and what is more it is ALL the faith my God wants/needs.

From God we come, to God we go, we witness, this the creation of God.

All the best, Sax

 

[Saxon Hammer]

Yes. A proclamation of the Trinity.

No, a proclamation of three properties of the one.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Hi pops,

Our Lord Jesus returned to the father when he died, as he said, into your hands I commend my Spirit. So at the point of death he went straight to God, and he took the thief with him.

Yes God is our judge, but Jesus says that his judgement is just, and why is that? Because he only spoke what the Father gave him to speak so he judged by the word of God. His words are Spirit and they are life and they come from the father of lights, the Almighty God.

And Christ has the same heart, mind and nature as the father, but he is still under subjection to the father and it is the father who has exalted Christ Jesus and set him at his right hand, and the head of Christ is God. So the father is the head of all including Christ.

Peace to you too my friend

I agree but make no distinction between the two as the Christ is no longer a man and is one with the father in spirit.

I would still maintain similar distinctions to your own when speaking of Jesus of Nazareth as he walked as man on earth.

peace friend

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