The Trinity

[God's Truth]

No, but somewhat close.

Jesus did not exist until he was born as a human.
Christ is a spirit Son of God the Father.
Christ became human in the body of Jesus.
The only true God is the Father.

That's what I believe GT.

I see the Father, Son and Holy Spirit working together but only the Father is the most high.




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Jesus came from heaven that is what the Bible plainly says.

Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh. He was found in appearance as a man. Jesus was made like a man.

Philippians 2:7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

Philippians 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death-- even death on a cross!

2 Corinthians 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.

Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people

Romans 1:3 regarding his Son, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David,

Romans 8:3
For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,

If Jesus were a man who became God, then how is it that Jesus CAME FROM HEAVEN?

No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven--the Son of Man. See John 3:13.

God sent his Son into the world. John 3:17.

Jesus came from the Father. See John 1:14.

Jesus came down from heaven. See John 6:38. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

John 6:62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

 

[KingdomRose]

Let us look at this verse and we can find the answer as to how God can have a God:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).​

Before the Lord Jesus was born of Mary He was in "the form of God." On earth He was made like us in all things and made under the law and was sent to serve the Father. Since He was under the Law like all Jews He worshipped the God of Israel. So that is how God has a God. And this passage proves that the Lord Jesus is God:

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom" (Heb.1:8).​

I'm not working with verses that have been shown to be twisted! Jesus nev er gave a consideration to being equal to God, and probably 9 out of 10 people here have versions of the Bible that show that. I have listed many such versions previously. I have also explained how Hebrews 1:8 has been twisted around in a manner which seems to present the writer's view that Jesus is God, when the original scripture he quotes (Psalm 45:6) never had that meaning. Therefore, the writer is not saying "Your throne O God." He is saying that "God is your throne," to the Son. That means that the Son gets his authority from God. It is obvious that the Son is not God, because the next verse speaks of the Son HAVING a God, who "has anointed you with the oil of exultation."

 

[KingdomRose]

You don't believe Jesus himself gave up his place in heaven to live as a Man without sins and then suffer and die for us.

That is the Greatest Love ever known.

That is the only sacrifice that could appease God and reconcile the whole world to Himself.

That's what I believe, yet you scoff at me.

 

[KingdomRose]

So the Lord Jesus is in the form of God but he is not God?

Exactly. Being in the FORM of God simply means that Jesus was SPIRIT before he came to earth as a man. God is Spirit (John 4:24) and that is what Jesus was as well, in heaven. That is the FORM he was in. That doesn't mean he is God. (Angels are in the form of God as well.)

 

[God's Truth]

That's what I believe, yet you scoff at me.

When and where did I scoff at you? You are the one who laughed and scoffed at me.

 

[God's Truth]

Exactly. Being in the FORM of God simply means that Jesus was SPIRIT before he came to earth as a man. God is Spirit (John 4:24) and that is what Jesus was as well, in heaven. That is the FORM he was in. That doesn't mean he is God. (Angels are in the form of God as well.)

The Bible speaks of only one divine Spirit.

God the Father is Spirit, and Jesus Christ is that same Spirit.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;

 

[KingdomRose]

The Bible, plain and simple, 101. It teaches that God came in the flesh. There is not refutation. It is a statement of fact. You deny John 1:1, 14 thus a direct denial that God came in the flesh.

NOWHERE does it say that "God came in the flesh." Where do you get that spurious idea? John 1:1 & 14?

Let's see. Let me quote Benjamin Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott, word for word from the Greek:

(No upper-case letters in Greek.) 1 "in a beginning was the word and the word was with the god and a god was the word. 14 and the word flesh became and tabernacled among us and we beheld the glory of him a glory as of an only-begotten from a father full of favor and truth."

Now just HOW does that show that God came to us in the flesh? It says that the "word," which we know to be Jesus, became flesh and dwelt among us. THE WORD. Not God.

The Emphatic Diaglott says that "A god was the word." Not THE God. A "god" is simply an important, influential individual. It doesn't have to be THE God. The Word is NOT "the" God. The Word---an important, powerful person---became flesh and dwelt among us. God Himself did not.

 

[Bright Raven]

NOWHERE does it say that "God came in the flesh." Where do you get that spurious idea? John 1:1 & 14?

Let's see. Let me quote Benjamin Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott, word for word from the Greek:

(No upper-case letters in Greek.) 1 "in a beginning was the word and the word was with the god and a god was the word. 14 and the word flesh became and tabernacled among us and we beheld the glory of him a glory as of an only-begotten from a father full of favor and truth."

Now just HOW does that show that God came to us in the flesh? It says that the "word," which we know to be Jesus, became flesh and dwelt among us. THE WORD. Not God.

The Emphatic Diaglott says that "A god was the word." Not THE God. A "god" is simply an important, influential individual. It doesn't have to be THE God. The Word is NOT "the" God. The Word---an important, powerful person---became flesh and dwelt among us. God Himself did not.

You use an unauthorized translation of the Holy Scriptures. Therefore I would not expect you to understand the post. You are a heretic. Jesus is God not a God as is depicted by the Watchtower Society in the NWT. The Watchtower is your God. Jesus isn't.

 

[patrick jane]

NOWHERE does it say that "God came in the flesh." Where do you get that spurious idea? John 1:1 & 14?

The Word was God and The Word became flesh !!! Are you so ignorant?

 

[Bright Raven]

The Word was God and The Word became flesh !!! Are you so ignorant?

No, a misinformed JW.

 

[Lon]

Name any IMAGE that is not a creation.

Well, you were created, but if you weren't? You.

Think deeper Lon.

WAAAAAY better than you. I am arrogant too but tend to know when I'm outclassed. You don't

Any image needs a subject to be an image of.

You ARE your own image.

In other words, God was alone until he created his image.

:nono: This is just you being stubborn and unable to give up an idea. An image reflects 'what is ALREADY there!'

You can not disregard what is in the book Lon to fit your error ridden traditions.

Er, so instead of listening to hundreds, thousands, millions, I should listen to just Keypurr and .05 of the church population?????????

I am intelligent. By the numbers, you think you are 99.05% better. That's arrogant. I know my IQ. I can tell your's within about 10 numbers.

You not as smart as I was giving you credit for.

Smarter and about 50 points higher as to IQ.

You can not have an image without the subject of the image.

Right. God cannot exist unless He does. A father who is a husband, is the same person.

Reflection, photo, shadow, copy. What ever one you pick needs an original subject.

A mirror is NOT the image. It 'shows' the image. You are simply playing goofy to fit your ill-conceived doctrine. Images are not created. All media that show an image, are. I can paint an image of an apple. I did NOT create the apple or the image. Rather, it is said I 'captured' the image.

Logic 101, you must have slept through it.

:chuckle: One of us did. You are so committed to error, you are redefining words and concepts to fit your preconceptions and notions. That
is NOT intelligence, or open to God and His teaching. That is cultic.

Heb 1:3 God created his express image, a spiritual son that he was pleased to give his fullness. In other words, God created form of God, "a" god. If you want truth you will need to see that.

I completely disagree with you. You are not the only one that messes this up, but it is still wrong.

John 17:3 there is only one true most high God, the Father.

:doh: I and Right Divider explained why it doesn't support you at all.

 

[Lon]

NOWHERE does it say that "God came in the flesh."

1 Timothy 3:16

 

[Bright Raven]

1 Timothy 3:16

Yep :thumb:

 

[Lon]

NOWHERE does it say that "God came in the flesh." Where do you get that spurious idea? John 1:1 & 14?

Let's see. Let me quote Benjamin Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott, word for word from the Greek:

(No upper-case letters in Greek.) 1 "in a beginning was the word and the word was with the god and a god was the word. 14 and the word flesh became and tabernacled among us and we beheld the glory of him a glory as of an only-begotten from a father full of favor and truth."

Now just HOW does that show that God came to us in the flesh? It says that the "word," which we know to be Jesus, became flesh and dwelt among us. THE WORD. Not God.

The Emphatic Diaglott says that "A god was the word." Not THE God. A "god" is simply an important, influential individual. It doesn't have to be THE God. The Word is NOT "the" God. The Word---an important, powerful person---became flesh and dwelt among us. God Himself did not.

I told the last two JW's that came to my house, that not one of them could read Greek. They brought the regional director from Montana, Washington and Idaho to my house. He left angry because I read and translated it. He could not. He called me a heathen and stamped his feet angrily. That still did not make him suddenly able to read Greek
I am going to make this simple for you: Count the words from Greek
and count the words I give you in English. Sometimes you cannot do this, but with John, you can. He wrote very simply in that he did not use complex words.
Example: He wouldn't use a word like 'feline' but would use instead 'cat' or 'lion' so you'd know exactly what he was writing.
Count:
John 1:1 ᾿Εν (1)ἀρχῇ(2) ἦν (3)ὁ(4) Λόγος,(5) καὶ (6)ὁ (7)Λόγος(8) ἦν(9) πρὸς (10)τὸν(11) Θεόν,(12) καὶ(13) Θεὸς(14) ἦν(15) ὁ(16) Λόγος.(17)
John 1:1 In(1) [the]-beginning (2)was(3) the(4) Word, (5)and(6) the(7) Word(8) was(9)with (10) [the](11) God (12)and (13)[[the]] God (14)was (15)the (16)Word.(17)

[The] is the Greek definite article that is only translated 'the'

You can believe the lies from your leaders or you can learn Greek in a college and check me. You are stuck believing one of us. Choice? I don't believe one who is trying to follow God has one. -Lon

 

[keypurr]

So the Lord Jesus is in the form of God but he is not God?

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-6).​

The Greek word translated "form" means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

Jerry notice the word "in" in verse 5.What was IN Jesus Christ?

The word (logos) I see as the spirit son, the express image, that was at the creation with God. This logos is a created form of God, a god. This logos is the first of all creatures.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

So when those in heaven will see the ONE on the "Throne of God and of the Lamb" they will see both the Lord Jesus and God at the same time because the Lamb is God:

"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads" (Rev.22:3-4).​

How can you possibly trick your mind into believeing that even though the Lord Jesus is in the form of God that He is not God?

Christ is a CREATION/CREATURE. He is am IMAGE of his Father. Images are not God.

You need to put your preconceived ideas away and start to believe what the Scriptures actually say about the Lord Jesus, that He is God:

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom" (Heb.1:8).​

I discarded my preconceived ideas many years ago Jerry. That's why I gave up on churches.

How many Gods are there?

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Isaiah 44:6 - "Thus says the LORD... there is no God but me."
Isaiah 45:5 - "I am the LORD and there is no other, there is no God besides me."
Isaiah 45:6 - "Men may know that there is none besides me. I am the LORD, there is no other."

Jesus Speaking:
John 20:17 - "I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."
Matthew 27:46 - "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
Revelation 3:12 - "Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God."
Revelation 3:2 - "for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God."

Paul:
Ephesians 1:3 - "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Ephesians 1:17 - "I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father..."
2 Corinthians 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Corinthians 11:31 - "The God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ knows, He who is blessed forever, that I do not lie."
Romans 15:6 - "that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Peter:
1 Peter 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Revelation 1:6 - "To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, who has made us into a kingdom, priests for his God and Father."

It makes perfect sense to me that there is only one true God and Jesus Christ has a God. that is proof that Jesus Christ is not God but a created form of God.

His God made him Lord of all creation.

 

[keypurr]

The Bible, plain and simple, 101. It teaches that God came in the flesh. There is not refutation. It is a statement of fact. You deny John 1:1, 14 thus a direct denial that God came in the flesh.

No it doesn't BR, the WORD, (logos) became flesh, not God.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

The SON came to us BR.

He came to bring light and dwell in the Lamb of God.

Open your mind to the truth.

 

[keypurr]

Jesus came from heaven that is what the Bible plainly says.

Nope it doesn't, it says he was born to Mary.

Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh. He was found in appearance as a man. Jesus was made like a man.

Philippians 2:7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

Philippians 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death-- even death on a cross!

Philippians 2 is more about the logos than Jesus. The logos came in the likeness of man by dwelling in Jesus.

2 Corinthians 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.

Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people

Romans 1:3 regarding his Son, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David,

Romans 8:3
For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,

Jesus was the Lamb, the sacrifice for mankind and he HAD to be a MAN to do it.

If Jesus were a man who became God, then how is it that Jesus CAME FROM HEAVEN?

No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven--the Son of Man. See John 3:13.

God sent his Son into the world. John 3:17.

It does not say JESUS came down from heaven. No man has seen God, it is the logos (spirit son) that dwelled IN Jesus that came down. This logos spoke and acted through Jesus.

Jesus came from the Father. See John 1:14.

Jesus came down from heaven. See John 6:38. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

see above

John 6:62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

Until you understand the express image in Hebrews 1 you will be confused on this matter.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

 

[keypurr]

Exactly. Being in the FORM of God simply means that Jesus was SPIRIT before he came to earth as a man. God is Spirit (John 4:24) and that is what Jesus was as well, in heaven. That is the FORM he was in. That doesn't mean he is God. (Angels are in the form of God as well.)

I think it means that the spirit son was given the power of the Father, so he is a created godlike creature. I do not think Jesus the man existed before he was born.

 

[keypurr]

The Word was God and The Word became flesh !!! Are you so ignorant?

Your interpretation is in question.

The word (logos) became flesh. The word was a form of God, not God.

 

[God's Truth]

Nope it doesn't, it says he was born to Mary.

The scriptures say he came from heaven and born to Mary.

Don't you know that we all have are own spirit living inside of us?

Jesus' Spirit was from heaven and is the Spirit of God.

Philippians 2 is more about the logos than Jesus. The logos came in the likeness of man by dwelling in Jesus.

The scriptures plainly says Jesus is the logos, and that Jesus came in the likeness of man.

Jesus was the Lamb, the sacrifice for mankind and he HAD to be a MAN to do it.

Jesus' Spirit, his thinking feeling Spirit...that is the Spirit of God. The body is just a vehicle in flesh to live on earth.

It does not say JESUS came down from heaven. No man has seen God, it is the logos (spirit son) that dwelled IN Jesus that came down. This logos spoke and acted through Jesus.

The scriptures plainly say Jesus came from heaven.

Jesus went up to heaven---and he is the one who came down from heaven.

John 6:62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!


That scripture say what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before.
JESUS in the flesh is the Son of Man.


John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.


It is so clear.