The Trinity

The Trinity


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keypurr

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The old heretic just keeps on hereticing.

Isa 45:22-23 (KJV)
(45:22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else. (45:23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Rom 14:10-11 (KJV)
(14:10) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. (14:11) For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Phil 2:9-11 (KJV)
(2:9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: (2:10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; (2:11) And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Paul says that the LORD Jesus is the LORD God.
No, Paul does not say Jesus is God.

Paul says we have one God, the Father, and one Lord Jesus Christ.

To make Jesus God is to deny the first verse you quoted. Jesus told you that ONLY his Father is the true God in John 17:3 yet you fall to the traditions of your early forefathers. Time to stand up for truth friend. There is only one God and it is not Jesus for he has a God, the same one we have.

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No, Paul does not say Jesus is God.

Paul says we have one God, the Father, and one Lord Jesus Christ.

To make Jesus God is to deny the first verse you quoted. Jesus told you that ONLY his Father is the true God in John 17:3 yet you fall to the traditions of your early forefathers. Time to stand up for truth friend. There is only one God and it is not Jesus for he has a God, the same one we have.

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It cannot be more clear that you reject every scripture.

This verse alone is all the proof that is needed.
John 1:1 (KJV)
(1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

keypurr

Well-known member
It cannot be more clear that you reject every scripture.

This verse alone is all the proof that is needed.
John 1:1 (KJV)
(1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Your Greek to English translations can twist the truth RD.

The JW'S have this one right with "a god".

Jesus was not the word, the word was in him. The word or logos is the express image spirit son of YHWH. A created form of God that dwelled in the body prepared for it.

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Bright Raven

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Your Greek to English translations can twist the truth RD.

The JW'S have this one right with "a god".

Jesus was not the word, the word was in him. The word or logos is the express image spirit son of YHWH. A created form of God that dwelled in the body prepared for it.

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The JW's have it totally wrong and so do you for agreeing with them. they add the indefinite article to agree with the bastardized New World Translation. Their twisting shows that they are polytheistic in nature. That puts you in the same cultic boat that they are in.
 

JudgeRightly

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What I reject in man's interpretation of scripture.
Traditions are filled with questions of error.

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Then why are you relying on the traditions of Jehovah's Witnesses? Rely on what the Bible actually says and not some cult's interpretation, and you'll never go wrong, unless you twist or misinterpret it.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
The old heretic just keeps on hereticing.

Isa 45:22-23 (KJV)
(45:22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else. (45:23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Rom 14:10-11 (KJV)
(14:10) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. (14:11) For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Phil 2:9-11 (KJV)
(2:9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: (2:10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; (2:11) And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Paul says that the LORD Jesus is the LORD God.

Ignert.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
The JW's have it totally wrong and so do you for agreeing with them. they add the indefinite article to agree with the bastardized New World Translation. Their twisting shows that they are polytheistic in nature. That puts you in the same cultic boat that they are in.

They go too far in naming the Angel of YHWH.

So do you.
 

Right Divider

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Your Greek to English translations can twist the truth RD.

The JW'S have this one right with "a god".
No, they do not. But it makes perfect sense that you would side with their cultist heresy.

Jesus was not the word, the word was in him.
That's not what scripture says, old heretic.

The word or logos is the express image spirit son of YHWH. A created form of God that dwelled in the body prepared for it.
No, Jesus was God in the flesh, just like scripture says.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
King James Version (KJV)
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
 

JudgeRightly

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King James Version (KJV)
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Where is that at? (You didn't provide book, chapter, and verse)
 

JudgeRightly

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Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. - Hebrews 2:17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews2:17&version=NKJV

This is a follow up to Heb. 2:14 ... and in context... points out how God is counted as our very brother through "The Son".

It also falls in line with something like this... (Mt. 12:48; 1 John 3:1; Ex. 33:11; John 15:15)
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Jesus is the flesh son of YHWH, but the Son that he sent is the spirit Son. The one YHWH used to create all with.

You make him what he is not. There is only one God and his name is YHWH. The spirit Son is the first of all creation. He is a created form of God. You have a problem seeing that. God sent his Son, not himself. Scripture is clear that the Son was sent by His and Our God. All power he had was GIVEN to him by his creator.

You have no clue as to thoughts or you would not make such stupid statements about them.

I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ.

You have much to see EE. But you close your eyes.

I have never shunned away from any thread.

I dropped your name in a thread I made and in a post that I very plainly spelled out this matter towards another. LA is in the spoiler, and I have a post towards them...

but... instead of dropping a link to the other thread... I'll drop a spoiler that contains the words of the entire post as it includes the words of other posts.

Spoiler
Greetings glorydaz,I will give two quotations, but not exactly in the pattern suggested. The first is in response to your claims, while the second stands alone as complete proof in itself. These prove that Jesus is distinct from Yahweh. The first is Tyndale’s translation of Exodus 3:14 where he translates “Ehyeh” as “I will be” showing that Jesus is not quoting Exodus 3:14 in John 8:58.
Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.

The second simply proves that Yahweh is God the Father, while our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God:
Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

But to conform to the rules, the following is Peter’s exposition of Psalm 110:1:
Acts 2:34—36 (KJV):34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ..
Jesus is both Lord and Christ, he is the "Lord" of Psalm 110:1, while God the Father is "YHWH" of Psalm 110:1.

Kind regards
Trevor

Hi Trevor,

We haven't really discussed much with one another so I will provide two responses that I need your clarification on... Mainly... which one would be a response to your stance. (Jesus is not God), (Jesus is God and you are pointing out the distinction of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit), or (Jesus is God, but only the Son is Jesus and the Father and Holy Spirit make up 3 separate Bodies... including Jesus)

I will drop a post I just generated to LA that addresses the (Jesus isn't God crowd) ... This can be addressed by [MENTION=17195]daqq[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=3801]keypurr[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=10015]Lazy afternoon[/MENTION] or yourself... if you are in this bunch... CLICK SPOILER FOR CONTENT...
Spoiler
You are not giving the Glory to God that He made a mortal man in His image, the firstborn of many brethren, who is the first to be raised from the dead.

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

The first LORD is the superior of the second Lord.

You have the LORD speaking to Himself.

It is wrong of you to overlay your view upon scripture.

Your view should be formed from scripture.

LA

LA,

I have no idea how you can miss that the Son is the very WORD of God and the very "Body" or "Glory" of God. It's very clear.

Moses asks God to Show Him His Glory...

Exodus 33:18-23

18 And he said, “Please, show me Your glory.”

19 Then He said, “I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”​

1) Moses names God's "Physical Presence"... God's Glory
2) God's GOODNESS is about to pass before Moses
3) God "Proclaim(s) "the name of the Lord"

So... here we have YHWH passing before Moses and Declaring "HIS NAME". As you see this as the "Father"... I will point out two matters. The focus is on the "EXPRESS" GLORY of GOD. This Glory also presented Himself before Moses at the tent of meeting. The Pillar of Cloud in the following verse is the focus of my next point.

Exodus 33:7-11

7 Moses took his tent and pitched it outside the camp, far from the camp, and called it the tabernacle of meeting. And it came to pass that everyone who sought the Lord went out to the tabernacle of meeting which was outside the camp. 8 So it was, whenever Moses went out to the tabernacle, that all the people rose, and each man stood at his tent door and watched Moses until he had gone into the tabernacle. 9 And it came to pass, when Moses entered the tabernacle, that the pillar of cloud descended and stood at the door of the tabernacle, and the Lord talked with Moses. 10 All the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the tabernacle door, and all the people rose and worshiped, each man in his tent door. 11 So the Lord spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. ...​

4) The "Tabernacle of meeting" is pitched "OUTSIDE the CAMP"
5) People met God "Outside the camp" of Israel
6) The Pillar of Cloud in this passage is the very "FORM" of YHWH that "stands".

and Again...

Leviticus 16

Now the Lord spoke to Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they offered profane fire before the Lord, and died; 2 and the Lord said to Moses: “Tell Aaron your brother not to come at just any time into the Holy Place inside the veil, before the mercy seat which is on the ark, lest he die; for I will appear in the cloud above the mercy seat.​

7) God makes it clear that HE is the very Presence ABOVE the MERCY seat for the DAY of Atonement.

and again... in reference to the Torah...

Leviticus 16:7-10

He shall take the two goats and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of meeting. 8 Then Aaron shall cast lots for the two goats: one lot for the Lord and the other lot for the scapegoat. 9 And Aaron shall bring the goat on which the Lord’s lot fell, and offer it as a sin offering. 10 But the goat on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make atonement upon it, and to let it go as the scapegoat into the wilderness.

8) Lots were cast over the two goats
9) One Lot is to God and the Other is to the "Scape Goat".
10) The Scape Goat is sent into the wilderness... outside the camp of Israel... with the peoples shame upon it.

Now... LA... I'm trying here... I'm giving you a bit of patience and attempting to speak kindly... please note that this is ephemeral on my part and I will grow tired rapidly if you don't actually search what I'm pointing out here... I have marked up passages of scripture to assist you in fully understanding what is plainly written in scripture. I have the scriptures rapidly available for you to search... in this very Post... so I'm going to Number out the points to take note of and then link them to scripture...

You have stated that I can be difficult to follow, so I am taking extra time... right now... to communicate point by point... linked to scripture and as clearly as I possibly can.

1) Moses names God's "Physical Presence"... God's Glory

Hebrews 1

1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, ...​

LA,

Here we see that "THE SON" is the very GLORY of GOd and the "Express IMAAGE of..." YHWH's Person. That is literally solidifying that "The Son" is the PRESENCE or BODY of God. (Manifestation) This binds to this... (John 14:9)

now... to prevent a common misunderstanding of this matter...

and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

...... * "Word of HIS POWER" ... this is a direct quote that calls "the Son" ... "The Word" and it goes on to call Him the POWER of God... (Right Hand is a Hebrew reference to a man's POWER)... the Left hand in Hebrew was considered the WEAK HAND and the RIGHT HAND was considered the Hand of "Power".

The Son Exalted Above Angels
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:

“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?​

The notation of the word EVER is crucial in this passage. God would never appoint an Angel to His place of Authority... Satan appointed HIMSELF to the "Right Hand of God" by pride and deceit, ... we can see this here... (Zechariah 3:1) *Joshua is the english name of Jesus... Jesus is Greek and Yeshua is Hebrew ... God alone is the true POWER of God... as we see here...

Isaiah 41:13

13 For I, the Lord your God, will hold your right hand,
Saying to you, ‘Fear not, I will help you.’​

God grasps our hand with HIS RIGHT HAND. This is a critical point to understand for SALVATION.

2) God's GOODNESS is about to pass before Moses

(Psalm 100:5) ... and... (Heb. 13:8) bound to (Mal. 3:6)

3) God "Proclaim(s) "the name of the Lord"

Only GOD (Is. 9:6) could have the NAME ABOVE all NAMES... or we would be saying there is ONE greater than YHWH...

Php. 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The Name of God is JESUS! And this very passage explains that BOWING to THE Son is Bowing to THE GLORY of THE FATHER. As in, the very GLORY that passed before Moses.

4) The "Tabernacle of meeting" is pitched "OUTSIDE the CAMP"
5) People met God "Outside the camp" of Israel

Both of these points bind to THIS...

Hebrews 13:13

13 Therefore let us go forth to Him, outside the camp, bearing His reproach.​

6) The Pillar of Cloud in this passage is the very "FORM" of YHWH that "stands".
7) God makes it clear that HE is the very Presence ABOVE the MERCY seat for the DAY of Atonement.

1 Corinthians 10

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.​

The cloud is identified as CHRIST. YHWH's "Presence" or BODY is the LOGOS, WORD of Creation and Is ETERNAL! God's Body is GOD! Body... Spirit and Soul...

8) Lots were cast over the two goats
9) One Lot is to God and the Other is to the "Scape Goat".

Matthew 27:3

35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

The very word vesture... means cloths and a person's Body is known as "The Cloths of their Soul" by ALL scripture! Note that it divides the word "garments from vesture". ... This is a direct binding to the Scape Goat... and binds to (Heb. 13:13)... as well.

10) The Scape Goat is sent into the wilderness... outside the camp of Israel... with the peoples shame upon it.

Hebrews 13:13

13 Therefore let us go forth to Him, outside the camp, bearing His reproach.​
Now... I hate labels and extra biblical figures that are taken as if they were cannon... but I will have to drop the labels and such to rapidly figure out your direction of speech.

There are 5 main camps of Christology and they are nasty labels, but here they go...

Arianism ... The Belief that Christ is not God... but a "created" god. (Duel G(g)od theory

Semi Arianism ... The Belief that Christ is God, but lesser in value than God. (Over division of the 3)

Modalism ... God is ONE and ONE alone... rendering THE Son as no more than God is a meat suit and the Holy
Spirit and the Spirit as identical Entities. (Oneness Pentecostal Types)

Trinitarianism ... Broad camp of Jesus is God crew that falls under many differing doctrines. (Umbrella term that is overly used and imprecise)

TriUnitarianism ... This camp is kind of my own label for people that recognize the Tri (3) nature of God and also understand how the 3 make up the (Une) or Modal or (1) ... (Deut. 6:4; Rv. 4:2)

I am going to ignore the Arianism Crew and address the 3 fathers of Jesus is God theology ... which are outside of Canon and thus rendered invalid as AUTHORITIES...

Eusebius of Caesarea ... This gentleman focused on the BiUnity of the Father and Son, but acknowledged the Holy Spirit on some level. He is the most influential figure on predominant Christology.

Tertullian ... This gentleman created a modal of God that was sort of odd. He defined all 3 of the TriUne as having 3 distinct bodies. He most likely did this because Sebellius was his theological rival. Tertullian is well known for twisting Sebellius's points and apposing him so grossly that it impacted Sebellius and the people that agreed with what he was saying.

Sebellius ... This gentleman's actual points were destroyed in many ways as Tertullian was quite the tyrant and thus Sebellius is more of a namesake for what is now known as Modalism.

The facts...

Jesus is the Name above all names and Is. 9:6 is very important to factor into Christology.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all (Deut. 6:4; Rev. 4:2)

To see the Son is to have seen the Father

The Father cannot be Seen, so The Son is clearly the PRESENCE of the "unseeable FATHER (Spirit)"

The Holy Spirit is noted as thus... (Php. 1:19; Rm. 8:9; Eph. 1:13)

The Son is in Heaven and the Holy Spirit is among us... NOW.​

I know... I know... I broke my OP structure... but I'll bring it back... I simply wanted to directly address you and figure out where you are coming from.

- Evil.Eye.<(I)> or EE for short.​
 

JudgeRightly

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This is a follow up to Heb. 2:14 ... and in context... points out how God is counted as our very brother through "The Son".

It also falls in line with something like this... (Mt. 12:48; 1 John 3:1; Ex. 33:11; John 15:15)
I was posting that so that those who just wanted to go directly to the passage 1m1s was quoting could do so without having to copy and paste the verse into Google first.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
The JW's have it totally wrong and so do you for agreeing with them. they add the indefinite article to agree with the bastardized New World Translation. Their twisting shows that they are polytheistic in nature. That puts you in the same cultic boat that they are in.

Nobody has it totally right friend. I think the JW's are right on John 1:1.

What makes you think your translations are any better? Are you twisting as much as they are? I would not be secure in their boat or yours.


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JudgeRightly

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Nobody has it totally right friend. I think the JW's are right on John 1:1.

What makes you think your translations are any better? Are you twisting as much as they are? I would not be secure in their boat or yours.

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The fact that we look at what the original version of the text says, which is in Koine Greek, not Hebrew or Aramaic.

And the text indicates very clearly that Jesus is God.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Then why are you relying on the traditions of Jehovah's Witnesses? Rely on what the Bible actually says and not some cult's interpretation, and you'll never go wrong, unless you twist or misinterpret it.

I am not a JW judge, I only relay on my understanding of scripture. I have discarded all churches from my life. But as John 1:1 goes, the JW's got it right. The logos is "a god", not God.

When will you see the words of your Lord Jesus Christ when he tells you that his Father is the only true God?

If Jesus Christ has a God then he is not God for there is only one God. When will you stand up for truth? Jesus never said he was God, he came to glorify his Father, not himself. He was sent by his God. His God made him Lord of all creation.

So many verses tell you who he is yet most do not wish to think for themselves and do the research to seek him. They tie themselves to a church with all the fictions that they can not let go.

Make your choice JR. I have made mine and it was not easy to do.


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