And what text did Jesus teach from?
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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And what text did Jesus teach from?
popsthebuilder
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The Torah is the general consensus I think. Why?
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He taught from the Septuagint. Don't you know your history, Pops?
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popsthebuilder
New member
Now you comment?
Why speak at all?
I have no interest in speaking with the disingenuous.
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Why speak at all?
I have no interest in speaking with the disingenuous.
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I can choose what I respond to, thank you very much.
Also, if you haven't noticed, TOL has been being upgraded for the past couple of days, so any points I would have made would have been lost anyways.
Since you INSIST I reply to you, Here is my response.
Read this: http://www.ministrysamples.org/excerpts/CHRIST-IS-THE-SPIRIT-THE-SCRIPTURAL-SAYING.HTML
Now, Why do you say that Jesus read from the Torah, when the Septuagint would have been far easier to access?
popsthebuilder
New member
Why does it matter. Did Jesus teach is to not read other texts than the Septuagint?
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Actually, when the first Five books of The OT: The Law or The Torah, were translated from ancient Hebrew into ancient Greek, they were known as The Septuagint.
Later, when the other books of the OT were translated into said ancient Greek, they also became part of, and known as The Septuagint.
Rom. 5:6-8.
Actually, The Septuagint introduced various changes and new words not used in the Hebrew text.
Part of that was due to why The Septuagint came into being to begin with: over time, with Israel's various rebellions, intermarryings into other cultures, together with their being conquered by other cultures *, and so on, few Israelites eventually spoke and or read Hebrew.
And with the Greek conquest of many, including the Israelites, ancient or Koine Greek became the predominant language.
With its own, and even new words - for newer developments in man's progress: just like the word "internet" and the later technology it represents, is a word not known by prior generations of English speakers.
Or just as, with the invention of the personal computer, the word "mouse" took on one more meaning: one not known by prior generations of English speakers.
Anway, eventually, a move arose for an OT that all might better understand upon hearing its reading.
Which eventually resulted in, The Septuagint.
Rom. 5:6-8
_______________
* Which is why one reads of the many languages spoken by different Israelites long since scattered abroad to different parts of that ancient world...
Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Sort of a "universal translator" effect.
popsthebuilder
New member
So if GOD is Spirit, and Christ is the Spirit and there is only one Spirit of GOD...then why trinity?
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CherubRam
New member
Joel 2:32
And everyone who calls on the name of (the Lord / Yahwah) will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the Lord has said, even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.
Acts 2:21
And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
Romans 10:13
for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Biblestudytools.com
1 Corinthians 8:6
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
2 Corinthians 3:17
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2 Corinthians 13:14
14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
Colossians 2:9
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
Isaiah 9:6
6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 44:6
6 “This is what the LORD says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.
John 1:14
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 10:30
30 I and the Father are one.”
Luke 1:35
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
Matthew 1:23
23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).
Matthew 28:19
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 3:16-17
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
John 14:16-17
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
Romans 14:17-18
17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
Luke 3:21-22
21 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
Genesis 1:1-2
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
1 John 5:7-8
7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
1 Peter 1:1-2
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22
21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
1 Corinthians 12:4-6
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Colossians 1:15-17
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
John 14:9-11
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.
Philippians 2:5-8
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!
John 10:30-36
30 I and the Father are one.” 31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” 33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods” ’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
CherubRam
New member
The people in heaven are called (elohiym / gods.) Christ himself said he was a god from heaven.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?
Sorry, wrong word. In John the word is Theos not elohiym.
CherubRam
New member
Christ is quoting Psalm 82:6
The word there is originally "elohiym."
Psalm 82:6
“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
John 10:34
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
popsthebuilder
New member
So if GOD is Spirit, and Christ is the Spirit and there is only one Spirit of GOD...then why trinity?
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Because "Spirit" is WHAT God is.
God is one WHAT, and three WHOs.
One Being, three Persons.
One Spirit, who is Father, Son, Holy Ghost.
popsthebuilder
New member
But a person has a body. The body that the Spirit of GOD indwells is the body of Christ. per your explanation; the body of Christ would be something else as would the body of the FATHER.
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You're question begging that "person" only refers to humans.
Pops, I have shown you time and again that person simply means, and I quote again:
"a being that has certain capacities or attributes such as reason, morality, consciousness or self-consciousness, and being a part of a culturally established form of social relations such as kinship, ownership of property, or legal responsibility."
Each of the Persons of the Trinity fit that description individually, and yes, without a body for each.
popsthebuilder
New member
You speak of the conscious part of a person which is their spirit. We've already concluded that there is One all pervading Spirit in reference to GOD.
So your point is moot.
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No, that's their mind, their heart (not talking about the pump here).
Man is tripartite, spirit body soul.
God is triune, Father Son Holy Ghost.
You keep using the word "person" as if we're talking about man. Please stop, we're not talking about man, we're talking about God, who created man in His image and likeness.
"All pervading"? What in the world is that supposed to mean?