The Personal Side of the Homosexual Debate

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Arthur Brain

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Of course not. I don't choose to eat, but I choose to not eat concrete. In fact, the thought of it is repulsive. Take note all you homo lovers. He again admits being a homo is bad, because nobody would choose to be that way. He has said this many times.

Well, you do in fact choose to eat. Your body may release chemicals that encourage you to through feelings of hunger but it's up to you to actually consume. I'm not sure where you can quote me 'admitting' any such thing but by all means link to it.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
More precisely - you could never see a situation where you would make such a choice - to make yourself attached to it. Whether you could or not you don't really know.

And extremity of condition doesn't necessarily invalidate conscious choice. Providing that the person has not gone insane or something, an extremity of condition merely forces one into making difficult decisions - a true test of character.

Well, I know that the thought of any kind of physical intimacy with another man repulses me, and that's not through conscious choice. So what else other than an extremity or severity of condition could change that?

There's no evidence in favor of the idea that homosexuality is genetic, and the very idea contradicts the very basis from which it might be supposed to arise - so the position that it is not genetic/natural very clearly makes more sense.

Well there is evidence in favour of it, even if you don't give it any credence.

I can get myself to enjoy a piece of music that I wouldn't normally listen to by learning to sing/play it. Example: I don't normally care for listening to instrumentals, but I can enjoy them if I learn to play them on the guitar. I can't choose to be involved in any film since it is up to other people who gets to be involved in the film - unless I'm the one creating it. This second one is a strawman.

But are you actually enjoying the music or is your enjoyment derived from emulating it? To put it another way, could you choose to enjoy listening to an atonal instrumental piece that you wouldn't be able to sing or duplicate?

Where it came to film I meant involved as engaged with characters, plot, narrative etc, so it wasn't a strawman.

I think you misunderstood my statement. When I said you wouldn't know unless informed - I meant that you wouldn't know if some individual was a pedophile unless you were informed. For instance: think of the various priests who have been involved in such scandals. Do you think parents would have left their kids with them if it was obvious that these specific priests were pedophiles?

Well, it happens. You misunderstood my meaning of 'involved' so I guess we're even...;)

First off, I didn't say pizza with jam - I said just pizza, whatever kind you love. Second off, I said you care who hands it to you for the sake of the analogy alone. Please pay attention.

There was a point as to why I used the analogy of a pizza with jam on it to begin with, that being not possible to enjoy. If I had the choice of having a normal pizza being delivered by a bloke or a beautiful woman then obviously I'd sooner the latter any day of the week.

I never said it is all about choice, I've acknowledged that there are plenty of subconscious elements that come into play in this subject - I merely argue that the conscious plays more of a role than people like you are willing to acknowledge. My generic attraction to woman was not a choice - it was nature/nuture, though my specific taste in women is a reflection of my character and beliefs, which are subject to my choice. If I really wanted to - I could test my heterosexuality, but I view that as immoral and so I won't.

While I acknowledge that there are elements that can influence the psyche - including an affect on sexuality I don't agree that an established sexuality is something that most people at least - can 'choose' to alter. It's not something I could test as it's inherently part of me.

I've also already provided an argument for how one might go from a hetersexual to bi-sexual or even homosexual - by adopting a stance that sex is purely about pleasure and through progressive experimentation break down the psychological restraints surrounding the idea of homosexuality. Once you become comfortable with the ever more deprived acts you open up to the idea.

Most people see sex as pleasurable so the argument that indulgence based on that notion alone can change an attraction/orientation is pretty weak to be honest.

A gay gene would most certainly prevent procreation from happening if it existed, for the obvious reason.

Only if it affected an overall population.
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
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First, I find it hard to imagine a homosexual having close proximity to me, and if so, I think I would get away from the person. My thinking, if I had my hair done by a faggy acting man, I would not tip him, or return. What good would it do to say anything? The person is only going to argue; it seems best to show them disapproval by action, rather than words.

:chuckle:

:thumb:
 

Angel4Truth

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I cannot comprehend this focus on homosexuality. My theory is that it is the easiest sin to despise, granting you the illusion of being holy as opposed to the gays.
Where are the threads that condemn adultery, ridiculous divorce rates (evangelicals being among the absolute worst when it comes to divorce), greed, aggression, hatred, pride and failing to care for the poor and the least of us??

Where are there people having pride in those sins parades and demanding that you accept those things as ok before God?
 

PureX

Well-known member
I fully agree, but wish to add, I think many hate it for reasons other than religion
What do you think those reasons are?

I think it's born in a fundamental fear of anything we don't understand. Because when we don't understand something, we can't feel in control of it.
 

TracerBullet

New member
There's no evidence in favor of the idea that homosexuality is genetic, and the very idea contradicts the very basis from which it might be supposed to arise - so the position that it is not genetic/natural very clearly makes more sense.
there is actually a good bit of evidence that sexual orientation is genetically influenced. the evidence is there in twin studies and familial studies.




I can get myself to enjoy a piece of music that I wouldn't normally listen to by learning to sing/play it. Example: I don't normally care for listening to instrumentals, but I can enjoy them if I learn to play them on the guitar. I can't choose to be involved in any film since it is up to other people who gets to be involved in the film - unless I'm the one creating it. This second one is a strawman.
music isn't love





I never said it is all about choice, I've acknowledged that there are plenty of subconscious elements that come into play in this subject - I merely argue that the conscious plays more of a role than people like you are willing to acknowledge. My generic attraction to woman was not a choice - it was nature/nuture, though my specific taste in women is a reflection of my character and beliefs, which are subject to my choice. If I really wanted to - I could test my heterosexuality, but I view that as immoral and so I won't.
so you have a genetic attraction to women but deny that gay men would have a genetic attraction to gay men



A gay gene would most certainly prevent procreation from happening if it existed, for the obvious reason.

first - no one says there is a gay gene except those trying to say sexual orientation is inborn. All evidence says that sexual orientation is the result of genetics, epigenetics and the prenatal environment

second -there are a lot of reasons why some human's don't procreate. that doesn't mean that their genetic material is faulty nor does it mean they aren't a part of human society and the raising of children.
 

aikido7

BANNED
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Three fallacies.

That there is more than one thing labeled an abomination does nothing to deny the fact that homosexuality is called an abomination.

Two things can be called completely different things given context, even if the same word is used to describe them.

Cherry-pickiing a context is human. A failure to find out what a biblical verse meant to the original authors can leave one with simplistic and baffling interpretations.

Eating shellfish anywhere after church is not called an abomination in the bible.
You're right. It says nothing about eating "after church." The Bible only says that eating shellfsh period is "an abomination."

Would you like to try again?
What we calll "homosexuality" was all about male aggression. Not love. The close and loving relationship of David and Jonathan in the Old Testament probably comes as close to a modern "gay" loving relationship as anything else in Scripture but it is not described in any specific way, other than to say they were both close and loved each other.
 

csuguy

Well-known member
there is actually a good bit of evidence that sexual orientation is genetically influenced. the evidence is there in twin studies and familial studies.

There's no solid evidence that homosexuality is genetic. Current studies can be interpreted any number of ways. Twins and familial studies can just as easily be interpreted to be a matter of nurture.


music isn't love

Love is a choice just as what kind of music you want to listen to. We have less direct control over lust I agree, but not no control. I wouldn't suggest that a homosexual could necessarily become a heterosexual, but they can choose to leave homosexuality behind.

so you have a genetic attraction to women but deny that gay men would have a genetic attraction to gay men

As discussed before, it is self-evident why we would naturally be heterosexual and why no homosexual gene would arise and persist across generations in nature. Evolution relies upon procreation - a homosexual gene would necessarily die off as soon as it evolved.

Furthermore, there are a great number of sexual variations out there beyond just straight and gay. There are bi-sexuals, pedophiles, some people are attracted to beastiality, etc. Are you gonna suggest each of these is its own gene?

first - no one says there is a gay gene except those trying to say sexual orientation is inborn. All evidence says that sexual orientation is the result of genetics, epigenetics and the prenatal environment

False - plenty of people are ready to say that homosexuality is a matter of genetics because they want to defend it as something beyond their control - a product of nature alone.

second -there are a lot of reasons why some human's don't procreate. that doesn't mean that their genetic material is faulty nor does it mean they aren't a part of human society and the raising of children.

Some don't procreate for good reasons, true. But a gene that prevents one from procreating - such as a from a lack of attraction to the opposite sex - is most certainly a defect.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Love is a choice just as what kind of music you want to listen to. We have less direct control over lust I agree, but not no control. I wouldn't suggest that a homosexual could necessarily become a heterosexual, but they can choose to leave homosexuality behind.

How is love a choice? Have you ever chosen to fall in love with someone? I haven't. I have absolute pitch where it comes to music but I didn't choose to have that either, nor is it in the realm of my control as to finding generic pop music bland, insipid and tediously boring to the ear. My only choice in the matter is to avoid it where I can.

Similarly the same would apply to lust. I may have a choice on whether to act on sexual desire but not what causes it.
 

resurrected

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If I had the choice of having a normal pizza being delivered by a bloke or a beautiful woman then obviously I'd sooner the latter any day of the week.


the beautiful woman is more apt to get lost or stop to do her nails or fix her hair, figgering she'll get a tip anyways because she's a beautiful woman and most customers are retards like you

if you want your pizza delivered quickly and correctly, get it delivered by a guy

:think: or an ugly woman
 

quip

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the beautiful woman is more apt to get lost or stop to do her nails or fix her hair, figgering she'll get a tip anyways because she's a beautiful woman and most customers are retards like you

if you want your pizza delivered quickly and correctly, get it delivered by a guy

:think: or an ugly woman

You're one class-act rez!
 

Ktoyou

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there is actually a good bit of evidence that sexual orientation is genetically influenced. the evidence is there in twin studies and familial studies.
seen those









first - no one says there is a gay gene except those trying to say sexual orientation is inborn. All evidence says that sexual orientation is the result of genetics, epigenetics and the prenatal environment

second -there are a lot of reasons why some human's don't procreate. that doesn't mean that their genetic material is faulty nor does it mean they aren't a part of human society and the raising of children.
You seem to say no to genetics, then yes, and there really is no 'epigentics' there are phenotypes, relative to genotypes, and prenatal environment has been thought to be a factor.
 

Ktoyou

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The main point I wanted to make is there are other reasons for disliking homos; many dislike homosexuals for reasons other than religion. Many do not like homos for 'personal' reasons.
 

Town Heretic

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The main point I wanted to make is there are other reasons for disliking homos; many dislike homosexuals for reasons other than religion. Many do not like homos for 'personal' reasons.
It's completely understandable that most people are repelled, by degree, from that which is unlike them. An adaptation of what Trad would likely note as Plato's first law of affinity.
 

The 5 solas

New member
the beautiful woman is more apt to get lost or stop to do her nails or fix her hair, figgering she'll get a tip anyways because she's a beautiful woman and most customers are retards like you

if you want your pizza delivered quickly and correctly, get it delivered by a guy

:think: or an ugly woman

Hey come on res....ugly women do their hair, get their nails done and get lost too!!

Your private message thingy is full it said, I could not send you a message in response...clear that out a bit!
 

Ktoyou

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Yes, TH
I know being a homosexual is sinful, and do not doubt that is all, yet I think that is not there is all to it?
 

Christ's Word

New member
how exactly are you privy to what is said in a therapy session?

most don't realize it because it isn't true


which is directly linked to living with discrimination, threats and rejection


all depends on how you play with the numbers.

One often overlooked aspect of the numbers game is that gays are significantly more likely to be tested for STD's than heterosexuals so they end up showing higher in statistics

I think you are referring to the often told lie that gay men have a life expectancy of 42 years. this was something made up by Paul Cameron, a expelled from the APA because he was fabricating research data on homosexuals.



and discrimination is moral how exactly?

It was once claimed by a famous Irishman that people like you use statistics like a drunk uses a light pole, for support, rather than enlightenment.

Look up poppers. Alkyl Nitrates. Over 50 percent of males that are homos have never had sex without using muscle relaxers. They are sold contraband at many businesses in the central west end (gay community in St. Louis)

I know because I have logged over 30,000 clinical hours treating addicts, criminals, and the sexually broken.

popperstogo.com play particular attention to the products called "RAM", "HARD WARE", and "Locker Room". You are a naive idiot.
 

csuguy

Well-known member
How is love a choice? Have you ever chosen to fall in love with someone? I haven't.

First off, let me note that there are many definitions of love - and people freely switch between them. In debates such as these, defenders of homosexuality use "love" in place of "lust" - it sounds nicer and holds more of a rhetorical punch.

When I use the term, however, I'm using it more from a Christian perspective - agape. This kind of love is a choice - its the decision to make the well-being of others and your relationship to them something you value and act upon.

Now, as for lust, in my own life I have certainly found that my internal choices regarding women affect my attraction to them. I find many women attractive - but that doesn't equate to me lusting after them. If I decide that I don't want to pursue someone for whatever reason - such as they are going out with one of my friends - then that's that, I won't think of them that way. On the other hand, if I decide I want to pursue them, then my thoughts turn to them. So my conscious decisions most certainly play a big role in this matter.

I have absolute pitch where it comes to music but I didn't choose to have that either, nor is it in the realm of my control as to finding generic pop music bland, insipid and tediously boring to the ear. My only choice in the matter is to avoid it where I can.

Just because there are somethings you don't have control over (being born a man/woman, how old you are, etc) doesn't therefore serve as an argument that one doesn't have any control over their sexual orientation. Analogies don't serve as arguments - despite the fact that people continually try to use them as such.

Similarly the same would apply to lust. I may have a choice on whether to act on sexual desire but not what causes it.

See above - from personal experience I heartily disagree on this point.
 
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