The Pagan Christmas Tree is OK

[No Sheep Here]

double post

 

[No Sheep Here]

I like how many think they speak for all Christians. Why people assume that not one Christian ever feeds the poor during the the holidays or give financial support is beyond me.

i think the ideal was proposed for the entire holiday to be a world charity event.

 

[TomO]

What does it matter if you do it throughout the year. i give gifts throughout the year to people and I do it on birthdays and Christmas; i also do charity. It's not about being a bad or good Christians, it should be about being consistent with your beliefs. Your tradition says you give gifts to celebrate Christ who was a gift to the world. WELL GIVE GIFTS TO THE WORLD. You needed a savior and there are tons of people who need to be saved from poverty and everything else. I just said that it would be nice if Christmas was turned into a world charity event. Just think of what impact it could make. I may actually have a bit more respect for the Christians at that point who aren't maxing out credit cards to spoil kids or wives while a good portion of humanity is homeless and starving.

I might have a bit respect for the Christians who practice their Faith in this way year round rather than suddenly have this revelation every winter and then proceeding to tell the rest of Christendom what they should be doing. lain:

 

[TomO]

I like how many think they speak for all Christians. Why people assume that not one Christian ever feeds the poor during the the holidays or give financial support is beyond me. I know plenty of people that spend hours tirelessly feeding the poor and some even bring homeless people to their church or homes to share a Christmas meal. Most do this year around actually. If these people never see others feeding the homeless maybe this speaks more about them than anything else? :think:

Word lain:

 

[No Sheep Here]

I might have a bit respect for the Christians who practice their Faith in this way year round rather than suddenly have this revelation every winter and then proceeding to tell the rest of Christendom what they should be doing. lain:

Well, that is an interesting problem for Christians. I still think it could make major changes in the world if that one day was turned into a big day of charity.

 

[Hilston]

Combined reply to Pam Baldwin and CabinetMaker

But I have a question.
You say "nothing is inherently sinful." That statement is true.
So, you do agree that "laws" are written that apply to certain groups/persons and not to be taken as imposed on everyone in all times?

Yes. For example, the laws of the circumcision gospel, imposed on Israel while it existed as a nation before God, do not apply to members of the Body of Christ (upon whom the laws of the uncircumcision gospel apply).

I ask because in your post, you state the prohibition that Paul wrote was to the Colossians and Galatians, and to the Body of Christ at large.

Yes, the prohibition against religious ceremony, rituals and symbolism did not apply to Israel (who were charged to follow the Mosaic Law and all of its ceremonies, rituals and symbolisms) or the Gentiles (who were charged with following the Noachian Law and all of it ceremonies, rituals and symbolisms).

Here's my question:
?If the prohibiton is written to the Body of Christ, will the NON-Body of Christ be judged for not obeying a command to the Body?

Yes, but only in this present biblical economy. Those who did not becomes members of the Body of Christ (i.e., reprobates), from the conversion of Paul until the Rapture Battle, will be judged (and condemned) for not obeying commands prescribed in the uncircumcision gospel (i.e., Paul's gospel, Rom 2:16). Whereas reprobate Israelites of the Kingdom economy will be judged according to the circumcision gospel (the Law of Moses) and reprobate Gentiles of the Kingdom economy will be judged according to the pre-Israel Laws given by God to the nations.

Seems to me that it boils down to a question of why you do something. It is not sinful to eat meat sacrificed to a pagan idol because the mature believer knows the pagan idol is nothing and the food is simply food.

On the contrary, the Scriptures clearly indicate that what you do in regard to religious behavior is just as important as why. That is the reason Paul uses the third-person imperative verb in his command "Let no man therefore judge [or regulate] you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" . In other words, Paul commands us to see to it that no one judges us or seeks to regulate us regarding the celebration of religious holidays, ceremonies, rituals and symbolisms. And the only way to do this, short of physically stopping their mouths or psychically interrupting their thoughts, is to abstain from the behavior entirely.

Do you decorate a tree as an act of worship? If so, you have crossed the line. If you decorate it because it holds certain memories of first homes, vacations, children's births and milestones and because you like the festive feel it brings t the house, then you are probably not anywhere close to the line.

On the contrary; such decorations signify the observance of a religious holy day and allows others to judge and regulate you accordingly. Paul forbids allowing others to do this, and the only way to stop them is to abstain entirely from observing the holy day.

We're saved from the law or were we saved to the law? In other words, is a believer judged by the law?

Yes, there will be judgment for all men, but there is no condemnation for the believer. Believers will attain and lose rewards based on that judgment. For nonbelievers there is condemnation only.

 

[Granite]

Yes, of course, unless we are correct.

Not sure what you mean by this. December 25th was a pagan day and was never associated with Christmas until the church appropriated the date and festivities. So unless you're demented enough to think Jesus was actually born on December 25th, there's nothing you can be "right" about.

As for Hilston, I see he's belaboring his dour point, yet again, just as he does every Christmastime.

 

[CabinetMaker]

CabinetMaker:

I have to ask then, why did God have any laws written down then since the Law doesn't matter, just the "why"?

First you need to answer the question of whether Jesus saved you from the law or not.

 

[Pam Baldwin]

As for Hilston, I see he's belaboring his dour point, yet again, just as he does every Christmastime.

Funny, it seems to me that he didn't start this thread.
....and he has proportionately less posts here than almost everyone else.

 

[Pam Baldwin]

First you need to answer the question of whether Jesus saved you from the law or not.

I "need " to answer this?

No, Jesus didn't save me from the Law. He saved me from my eternal punishment in Hell by taking the punishment for me by His death on the stake.

I was guilty under the Law.

Body "law" is to be not under "the " Law- Mosaic or Gentile Law. The Body does not submit or follow that Law.

 

[Pam Baldwin]

Yes, but only in this present biblical economy. Those who did not becomes members of the Body of Christ (i.e., reprobates), from the conversion of Paul until the Rapture Battle, will be judged (and condemned) for not obeying commands prescribed in the uncircumcision gospel (i.e., Paul's gospel, Rom 2:16). Whereas reprobate Israelites of the Kingdom economy will be judged according to the circumcision gospel (the Law of Moses) and reprobate Gentiles of the Kingdom economy will be judged according to the pre-Israel Laws given by God to the nations.

Hi Hilston:

Thanks for your reply. I do have a question:

What "day" do you understand Paul to be referring to in Romans 2:16?

 

[genuineoriginal]

The Pagan Christmas Tree is OK

This is the show from Tuesday November 30th, 2010.

SUMMARY:

* Why God Likes the Christmas Tree: Some Christians Have Been Taught: because there are pagan symbols and origins for various Christmas and Easter traditions, therefore believers should not celebrate such religious feast days, should not use pagan terminology, and should certainly not partake in any custom that has pagan roots.

The choice of not celebrating Christmas is not made because Christmas uses pagan terminology. It is a choice made because Christmas is a pagan celebration dressed up in Christian terminology. The argument about pagan terminology is a red herring. It is a straw-man argument that is easy to knock down. The argument should have been whether Christians should use Christian terminology to justify practicing pagan rituals.

* Seven Lines of Evidence: Pastor Bob Enyart of Denver Bible Church looks at seven lines of evidence from Scripture showing that it is not inherently sinful to use pagan terms. Further, rather than being necessarily dishonored by such, God actively permits and He even employs, along with His people, the use of pagan terms. Finally, the Lord even permits His people to engage in certain superficial pagan practices.

The question is whether the pagan practice of Christmas is sinful, which is never addressed.

Of course God NEVER condones immorality. God would never regulate sin, because He is not double-minded, and because He would never send such mixed messages, and because God would never agree to His people hurting themselves. But then, how could a Christian use various symbolic pagan terms and practices, and yet sin not? Consider:

1. Pagan names for months of the year used in Scripture Neh. 2:1, and all Christians use pagan week day names
2. The Bible uses pagan names for Daniel’s associates. The Book of Daniel
3. Jesus went to Jerusalem for the apocryphal Maccabees’ Feast of Dedication, Hanukkah. John 10:22
4. Pagan philosophical terms co-opted. Hebrews: shadow, types, substance; John: logos
5. God allows us in the Body of Christ to eat meat sacrificed to idols. 1 Cor. 8:4
6. Those who are more mature can even go to, and eat in, an idol’s temple. 1 Cor. 8:10
7. Extra-biblical regulations may have a superficial appearance of wisdom but do not help. Colossians 2:20-23

Of the "Seven Lines of Evidence," three are part of the straw-man argument against the use of pagan terminology, one doesn't even apply to pagan celebrations, two are really only one line of evidence twisted backwards to mean the opposite of the original intent, and the last one is not even properly developed.

1. Biblical Calendar, Hebrew Month Names: Scripture uses the Hebrew names of the months eight times. Ex. 13:4 (Abib, the first month); 23:15; 34:18; Deut. 16:1; 1 Ki. 6:1 (Ziv), 37, 38 (Bul), 8:2 (Ethanim, the seventh month)
Babylonian calendar, pagan names: used in Scripture 16 times. Neh. 1:1 (Chislev); 2:1 (Nisan, the first month); Est. 2:16 (Tebeth); 3:7 2x (Adar, the 12th month), 13; 8:9 (Sivan), 12; 9:1, 15, 17, 19, 21; Ezra 6:15; Zech. 1:7; 7:1
European and Roman Pagan Names: Sun-day, Moon-day, Thor’s-day; Saturn-day, etc.

2. Daniel 1:6-7: "Now from among those of the sons of Judah were Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah. To them the chief of the eunuchs gave names: he gave Daniel (75x) the name Belteshazzar (10x; see Dan. 10:1); to Hananiah (5x), Shadrach (15x); to Mishael (5x), Meshach (15x); and to Azariah (5x), Abed-Nego (15x)." For example, Daniel 2:49 says, "…Daniel petitioned the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego over the affairs of the province of Babylon…" So the Babylonians took the language that God gave them, and perverted it with symbolism and pagan meaning, not unlike homosexuals taking the color pink, and even, being selfish, taking the entire rainbow, so that now pink symbolizes homosexuality, as does the rainbow itself. But we can take back the rainbow. And we can take back the color pink. So the names of Daniel's associates had pagan origins, and pagan meanings, but regardless, the Holy Spirit inspired Daniel to use those pagan names, because God is holy, but He's not uptight!

3. Jesus went to Jerusalem for the apocryphal feast of Hanukkah: The apocrypha at 1st Maccabees 4:56–59 states: “For eight days they celebrated the rededication of the altar. Then Judah and his brothers and the entire congregation of Israel decreed that the days of the rededication... should be observed... every year... for eight days.” Jesus was a Galilean (Mark 14:70, Luke 23:6; etc. of Nazareth (northern Israel) with His base in Capernaum [Luke 4:23; etc. 16x]) and He would go to Jerusalem to minister for the feasts (John 2:13; etc.). Yet the Gospel of John says that Jesus also went to Jerusalem and even the temple during for the apocryphal feast which the Jews celebrate around Christmas time with the Menorah, the candlestick with nine branches. “Now it was the Feast of Dedication [Greek: renewal; inauguration] in Jerusalem, and it was winter. And Jesus walked into the temple…” (John 10:22-23). Some may criticize a Christian for even attending a religious festival other than an explicitly biblical one, whereas Jesus made it His custom to go to Jerusalem, for ministry purposes, during the Feasts, and He also went for this apocryphal feast.

This "Line of Evidence" is disingenuious. Chanukah is not a pagan festival dressed up in Christian terms. Chanukah (the Feast of Dedication) commemorates the cleansing of the Holy Temple from paganism and the rededication of the Holy Temple to worship of God. This is very different from the argument of whether Christians should celebrate a pagan festival dressed up in Christian terms. Chanukah is all about resisting the pressure to follow pagan practices and keeping worship of God pure and untainted by pagan influences. At the very least, Christians who want to be disciples of Jesus would look at this argument and wonder whether they should stop celebrating Christmas and start celebrating Chanukah instead.

4. Pagan Philosophical Terms Co-opted by God: Shadow, type, substance, logos (Heb. 8:5; 10:1; Rom. 5:14; John 1:1, 14; etc.) (See also Bob Enyart's Bible Studies and Bible Tours!)

5. Acceptable for Christians to Knowingly Eat Meat Sacrificed to Idols: 1 Co. 8:4

6. Acceptable for Christians to Eat in an Idol's Temple: Members of the Body of Christ may even go into an idol's temple and eat a meal there, paying our money to pagan priests, of Corinth, etc., even though they use our money to promote the worship of false gods like Apollo, etc. 1 Co. 8:10

These two "Lines of Evidence" are part of the same passage in the Bible, and are taken out of context. Using the verses in context is actually a "Line of Evidence" that Christians should NOT celebrate Christmas because it has pagan roots.

1 Corinthians 8 1Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. 2And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 3But if any man love God, the same is known of him. 4As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 7Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. 8But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. 9But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. 10For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; 11And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. ​

Paul was answering some specific questions asked by the Corinthians in a letter (1 Corinthians 7:1). One of the things asked seems to be whether it is acceptable for Christians to eat food offered in sacrifice unto idols.
The answer Paul gave the Corinthians was that they should not be puffed up in their knowledge and do whatever they knew was acceptable, but that they should instead do what is best for others out of love for their fellow Christians. Since some Christians could not handle the idea that it was acceptable to eat food offered in sacrifice unto idols, Paul told the Christians that were puffed up in their knowledge that the weak Christians would perish if they ate and the the puffed up Christians would sin against Christ by trying to convince the weak Christians that it was acceptable to eat.

So, to apply Paul's logic to the topic of whether Christians should celebrate Christmas:

• If a weak Christian knows that Christmas is a pagan holiday, celebrating Christmas will defile the weak Christian's conscience and cause them to perish.
• If a strong Christian knows that Christmas is a pagan holiday, celebrating Christmas will not harm the strong Christian.
• If a weak Christian sees a strong Christian celebrating a holiday the weak Christian knows is a pagan holiday, the weak Christian may decide to celebrate the holiday also, but will not be able to handle it when their conscience is defiled and will perish.
• When a strong Christian knows that a weak Christian cannot handle knowing that the strong Christian is celebrating Christmas, the strong Christian will be sinning against Christ by trying to celebrate Christmas in front of the weak Christian.
• Strong Christians should not celebrate Christmas out of love for weak Christians because weak Christians know Christmas is a pagan holiday and cannot handle celebrating it themselves without perishing.

7. Therefore, If You Died With Christ: from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations; "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," which all concern things which perish with the using; according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh (Col. 2:20-23).

Jesus Himself opposed worshipping God according to the commandments and doctrines of men instead of according to the written Word of God.

Matthew 15 7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.​

This "Line of Evidence" does not address whether celebrating Christmas is a doctrine or commandment of men, but assumes that anyone saying not to celebrate Christmas is creating a commandment or doctrine of men. Both celebrating Christmas and saying Christmas should not be celebrated appear to be doctrines and commandments of men. From this, it can be concluded that this "Line of Evidence" does not say either way whether to celebrate Christmas or not.

The tally for the "Seven Lines of Evidence" stands as follows:

1. Not relevant
2. Not relevant
3. Resist celebrating Christmas and keep worship of God pure
4. Not relevant
5. Celebrating Christmas is allowed, but you should not celebrate Christmas
6. Celebrating Christmas is allowed, but you should not celebrate Christmas
7. Inconclusive

It looks like the argument for celebrating Christmas has not been made.


On the other hand, are there any clear verses in the Bible that say that Christmas should not be celebrated?

Deuteronomy 12 29When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; 30Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.​

The Bible clearly states that the children of Israel were not to use pagan worship practices when worshiping the LORD God. These verses establish a principle of only following God ordained worship practices.

Christians started in the new covenant with the worship practices given specifically to the children of Israel when the old covenant was established with them. The Temple was destroyed soon after and the worship practices that God established are not possible without the Temple, even if any Christians wanted to follow them.


Are there any God ordained worship practices for Christians?
Why should or shouldn't Christians use pagan worship practices when worshipping the LORD God?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Combined reply to Pam Baldwin and CabinetMaker

On the contrary, the Scriptures clearly indicate that what you do in regard to religious behavior is just as important as why. That is the reason Paul uses the third-person imperative verb in his command "Let no man therefore judge [or regulate] you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" . In other words, Paul commands us to see to it that no one judges us or seeks to regulate us regarding the celebration of religious holidays, ceremonies, rituals and symbolisms. And the only way to do this, short of physically stopping their mouths or psychically interrupting their thoughts, is to abstain from the behavior entirely.

I had to go back and look at this one a bit. I think this commentary said it best:

Barnes' Notes on the Bible Let no man, therefore, judge you - compare Romans 14:10, note, 13, note. The word judge here is used in the sense of pronouncing a sentence. The meaning is, "since you have thus been delivered by Christ from the evils which surrounded you: since you have been freed from the observances of the law, let no one sit in judgment on you, or claim the right to decide for you in those matters. You are not responsible to man for your conduct, but to Christ; and no man has a right to impose that on you as a burden from which he has made you free."

People who are imposing upon me a restriction to celebrate Christmas fall under this passage. In essence, I am free to celebrate Christmas if I so choose. You may not agree with me, but you may not sit in judgment over me (nor I over you) because of it.

 

[CabinetMaker]

I "need " to answer this?

No, Jesus didn't save me from the Law. He saved me from my eternal punishment in Hell by taking the punishment for me by His death on the stake.

I was guilty under the Law.

Body "law" is to be not under "the " Law- Mosaic or Gentile Law. The Body does not submit or follow that Law.

Okay, you lost me. Are you under some kind of law from God?

 

[CabinetMaker]

The choice of not celebrating Christmas is not made because Christmas uses pagan terminology. It is a choice made because Christmas is a pagan celebration dressed up in Christian terminology. The argument about pagan terminology is a red herring. It is a straw-man argument that is easy to knock down. The argument should have been whether Christians should use Christian terminology to justify practicing pagan rituals.

But are Christians who keep Christmas with decorated trees and the exchanging of gifts truly practicing a pagan ritual. I say no. The pagan celebration at mid-winter was the celebration of the winter solstice. Many of the symbols were intended to entice some gods blessing on crops and families in the coming year.

So when a Christian sets up a tree and decorates it with ornaments really practicing a pagan ritual? No. In most cases, setting up the Christmas tree is no more significant than decorating the house for a birthday party in the summer months. There is no act of worship associated with setting up a tree (unless you are a practicing pagan). Therefore, a Christian is not practicing a pagan ritual to worship God.

For Christians, the real celebration at Christmas takes place at a midnight service or services on Christmas morning.

The question is whether the pagan practice of Christmas is sinful, which is never addressed.

It would only be sinful if and only if pagan rituals were being used to worship God.

So, to apply Paul's logic to the topic of whether Christians should celebrate Christmas:

• If a weak Christian knows that Christmas is a pagan holiday, celebrating Christmas will defile the weak Christian's conscience and cause them to perish.
• If a strong Christian knows that Christmas is a pagan holiday, celebrating Christmas will not harm the strong Christian.
• If a weak Christian sees a strong Christian celebrating a holiday the weak Christian knows is a pagan holiday, the weak Christian may decide to celebrate the holiday also, but will not be able to handle it when their conscience is defiled and will perish.
• When a strong Christian knows that a weak Christian cannot handle knowing that the strong Christian is celebrating Christmas, the strong Christian will be sinning against Christ by trying to celebrate Christmas in front of the weak Christian.
• Strong Christians should not celebrate Christmas out of love for weak Christians because weak Christians know Christmas is a pagan holiday and cannot handle celebrating it themselves without perishing.

It seems to me that strong Christians are making an issue of Christmas that weak Christians never even knew existed. Christmas has for centuries been known as the celebration of the Birthday of Christ. Some of us know that it became Christ's-Mass when the Catholic Church decided to convert the pagans to Christianity. The Church usurped the mid-winter celebration of the pagans and turned it into a celebration of God. I have to give them credit for being very effective at doing so. Here in Denver the atheists are putting up a bunch of billboards for the holiday season denouncing God. If they saw Christmas as a pagan holiday why would they bother? The answer lies in the fact that even atheists see Christmas as a uniquely Christian celebration of God and Jesus.

Christians started in the new covenant with the worship practices given specifically to the children of Israel when the old covenant was established with them. The Temple was destroyed soon after and the worship practices that God established are not possible without the Temple, even if any Christians wanted to follow them.


Are there any God ordained worship practices for Christians?
Why should or shouldn't Christians use pagan worship practices when worshipping the LORD God?

Christians should not use pagan practices to worship God. Setting up a Christmas tree as an act of worship to God is wrong. Setting up a Christmas tree because it makes the house look pretty is not an act of worship and, therefore, not a problem. Giving gifts to friends and family as an act of worship to God is wrong. Giving gifts to friends and family to let them you know they are important to you is not a problem.

Our worship of God is found in our service to others (as a response to God's love in our own lives) and in our gatherings in His name. It is in our daily prayers and thankfulness for God's presence in our lives.

 

[genuineoriginal]

But are Christians who keep Christmas with decorated trees and the exchanging of gifts truly practicing a pagan ritual. I say no. The pagan celebration at mid-winter was the celebration of the winter solstice. Many of the symbols were intended to entice some gods blessing on crops and families in the coming year.

So when a Christian sets up a tree and decorates it with ornaments really practicing a pagan ritual? No. In most cases, setting up the Christmas tree is no more significant than decorating the house for a birthday party in the summer months. There is no act of worship associated with setting up a tree (unless you are a practicing pagan). Therefore, a Christian is not practicing a pagan ritual to worship God.

For Christians, the real celebration at Christmas takes place at a midnight service or services on Christmas morning.

It would only be sinful if and only if pagan rituals were being used to worship God.


[/LIST]
It seems to me that strong Christians are making an issue of Christmas that weak Christians never even knew existed. Christmas has for centuries been known as the celebration of the Birthday of Christ. Some of us know that it became Christ's-Mass when the Catholic Church decided to convert the pagans to Christianity. The Church usurped the mid-winter celebration of the pagans and turned it into a celebration of God. I have to give them credit for being very effective at doing so. Here in Denver the atheists are putting up a bunch of billboards for the holiday season denouncing God. If they saw Christmas as a pagan holiday why would they bother? The answer lies in the fact that even atheists see Christmas as a uniquely Christian celebration of God and Jesus.

Christians should not use pagan practices to worship God. Setting up a Christmas tree as an act of worship to God is wrong. Setting up a Christmas tree because it makes the house look pretty is not an act of worship and, therefore, not a problem. Giving gifts to friends and family as an act of worship to God is wrong. Giving gifts to friends and family to let them you know they are important to you is not a problem.

Our worship of God is found in our service to others (as a response to God's love in our own lives) and in our gatherings in His name. It is in our daily prayers and thankfulness for God's presence in our lives.

The "Seven Lines of Evidence" presented in the OP never bothered to address the issues you are bring up.

My post was to show how inadequate the "Seven Lines of Evidence" were in addressing the issue of whether Christians should celebrate Christmas knowing that it has pagan roots.

Your response reinforces my point that the actual issue was not addressed by the "Seven Lines of Evidence."

 

[genuineoriginal]

But are Christians who keep Christmas with decorated trees and the exchanging of gifts truly practicing a pagan ritual. I say no. The pagan celebration at mid-winter was the celebration of the winter solstice. Many of the symbols were intended to entice some gods blessing on crops and families in the coming year.

So when a Christian sets up a tree and decorates it with ornaments really practicing a pagan ritual? No. In most cases, setting up the Christmas tree is no more significant than decorating the house for a birthday party in the summer months. There is no act of worship associated with setting up a tree (unless you are a practicing pagan). Therefore, a Christian is not practicing a pagan ritual to worship God.

Many of the most popular Christmas customs – including Christmas trees, mistletoe, Christmas presents, and Santa Claus – are modern incarnations of the most depraved pagan rituals ever practiced on earth.

Many who are excitedly preparing for their Christmas celebrations would prefer not knowing about the holiday’s real significance. If they do know the history, they often object that their celebration has nothing to do with the holiday’s monstrous history and meaning. “We are just having fun.” (source)​

Check the source for more detailed information on the origins of Christmas customs.

Is it really worth it?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Many of the most popular Christmas customs – including Christmas trees, mistletoe, Christmas presents, and Santa Claus – are modern incarnations of the most depraved pagan rituals ever practiced on earth.

Many who are excitedly preparing for their Christmas celebrations would prefer not knowing about the holiday’s real significance. If they do know the history, they often object that their celebration has nothing to do with the holiday’s monstrous history and meaning. “We are just having fun.” (source)​

Check the source for more detailed information on the origins of Christmas customs.

Is it really worth it?

That is what they were. What are they now?

 

[Granite]

Many of the most popular Christmas customs – including Christmas trees, mistletoe, Christmas presents, and Santa Claus – are modern incarnations of the most depraved pagan rituals ever practiced on earth.

Many who are excitedly preparing for their Christmas celebrations would prefer not knowing about the holiday’s real significance. If they do know the history, they often object that their celebration has nothing to do with the holiday’s monstrous history and meaning. “We are just having fun.” (source)​

Check the source for more detailed information on the origins of Christmas customs.

Is it really worth it?

Yes, indeed.

I'm fascinated at the lengths some wet blankets will go to try to make people as miserable as they are--at the finest time of year, no less.

 

[Cracked]

Not sure what you mean by this. December 25th was a pagan day and was never associated with Christmas until the church appropriated the date and festivities. So unless you're demented enough to think Jesus was actually born on December 25th, there's nothing you can be "right" about.

As for Hilston, I see he's belaboring his dour point, yet again, just as he does every Christmastime.

I think you've missed my point. If Dec. 25th is the re-birth of the sun, it seems the appropriate time to celebrate the birth of the Savior. Christmas, Advent, is about hope.

While your disdain for Christianity is well noted, you needn't spill your vitriol onto me. Some Christians may have good reason to believe that Christ was born on Dec. 25th. I do not think that that matters much, personally. What matters is that we are reminded of the hope that Christ has purchased for us. Protestant Christianity has worked very diligently to strip away "reminders" in the faith. This, Christmas, is one that remains - not just for Christian, but as a testament to much of the world.